Emerald_Mage he/him Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 10 hours ago, Booknerd said: stormlight is money because it's investiture. Well, that's a good way to make the least stable economy I have heard of. "Hey, you owe me money. I guess I will wait until tomorrow when all our gemstones are reinfused and we are all rich again." 40 minutes ago, Booknerd said: Kal thinks about how their gems are almost out even with the recent Highstorm Exactly, and he notes how it didn't recharge the gemstones as well.
Frustration Posted March 18, 2020 Author Posted March 18, 2020 33 minutes ago, Emerald_Mage said: Well, that's a good way to make the least stable economy I have heard of. "Hey, you owe me money. I guess I will wait until tomorrow when all our gemstones are reinfused and we are all rich again." That's no different from oh I'll pay you when I get my next paycheck. 34 minutes ago, Emerald_Mage said: Exactly, and he notes how it didn't recharge the gemstones as well. How about we hold off on this as neither one will submit until one of us can get an exact quote/WoB?
Emerald_Mage he/him Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 32 minutes ago, Booknerd said: That's no different from oh I'll pay you when I get my next paycheck. Maybe I didn't explain myself very well. The problem is making a highly renewable resource your society's monetary basis. Many countries (Germany and Zimbabwe for example) have had economic breakdowns from how they printed paper money. Imagine if in today's world gold doubled every week or so, what would happen? Gold would become worthless. The same is true with stormlight, it would become worthless.
Frustration Posted March 18, 2020 Author Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Emerald_Mage said: Maybe I didn't explain myself very well. The problem is making a highly renewable resource your society's monetary basis. Many countries (Germany and Zimbabwe for example) have had economic breakdowns from how they printed paper money. Imagine if in today's world gold doubled every week or so, what would happen? Gold would become worthless. The same is true with stormlight, it would become worthless. Only Stormlight has functional uses as well, but I see your point and direct you to pricing, a chain was a thousands broams of Stormlight a painting 300 so you can see the effect you describe.
Emerald_Mage he/him Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Booknerd said: How about we hold off on this as neither one will submit until one of us can get an exact quote/WoB? This took longer to find than I anticipated. Oathbringer chapter 101. Page 992 a highstorm goes through. Same chapter, page 996 Shallan says "It's been long enough since they were renewed they'll almost certainly lose their stormlight in the next few days. A few have gone out already." It was almost all dialogue, and there was no way it had been days between the pages. 32 minutes ago, Booknerd said: Only Stormlight has functional uses as well Just some trivia, gold has practical uses as well. (Though it is much less known for it.) Higher-end electronics use gold for the wiring because it is a far better conductor than copper. 34 minutes ago, Booknerd said: but I see your point and direct you to pricing, a chain was a thousands broams of Stormlight a painting 300 so you can see the effect you describe. On the other hand, clothing was practically nothing. and in chapter 102 Syl says that the prices were based on how permanent things were in Shadesmar. 1
Pathfinder Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Emerald_Mage said: Just some trivia, gold has practical uses as well. (Though it is much less known for it.) Higher-end electronics use gold for the wiring because it is a far better conductor than copper. Changing trivia to stormlight archive practicality, it is mentioned I believe that gold is used in the creation and function of fabrials. 1
Frustration Posted March 18, 2020 Author Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Emerald_Mage said: This took longer to find than I anticipated. Oathbringer chapter 101. Page 992 a highstorm goes through. Same chapter, page 996 Shallan says "It's been long enough since they were renewed they'll almost certainly lose their stormlight in the next few days. A few have gone out already." It was almost all dialogue, and there was no way it had been days between the pages. Hardly indesputible but that seems like the best we have. 1 hour ago, Emerald_Mage said: Just some trivia, gold has practical uses as well. (Though it is much less known for it.) Higher-end electronics use gold for the wiring because it is a far better conductor than copper. I should have said using Stormlight as currency is like using electricity, it can acplish things and is used doing it, the system let's it out, yes new stuff comes in but it leaves at the same rate there is only so much in circulation. 1 hour ago, Emerald_Mage said: On the other hand, clothing was practically nothing. and in chapter 102 Syl says that the prices were based on how permanent things were in Shadesmar. Of course they're cheap if you charge too much for clothes spren will just find their own beads and manifest them themselves.
Karger he/him Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 4 hours ago, Booknerd said: I should have said using Stormlight as currency is like using electricity, it can acplish things and is used doing it, the system let's it out, yes new stuff comes in but it leaves at the same rate there is only so much in circulation. But business will have to shut down completely around highstorms.
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 Just now, Karger said: But business will have to shut down completely around highstorms. Please elaborate.
Karger he/him Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 22 minutes ago, Booknerd said: Please elaborate. At the time money would be worthless.
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 Just now, Karger said: At the time money would be worthless. They have perfect gems so I don't see waiting as a problem, and it takes the same amount of Stormlight to manifest so I don't see the impact.
Karger he/him Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 Just now, Booknerd said: They have perfect gems so I don't see waiting as a problem, and it takes the same amount of Stormlight to manifest so I don't see the impact. You misunderstand. During a highstorm everyone has as much stormlight as they can have. So the currency is completely worthless. It only becomes worth something after the storm has past and you start to have scarcity again. This is why gemstones are better. They maintain an exact value based on their potential worth rather then inflating and deflating rapidly in value over the course of a week.
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Karger said: You misunderstand. During a highstorm everyone has as much stormlight as they can have. So the currency is completely worthless. It only becomes worth something after the storm has past and you start to have scarcity again. This is why gemstones are better. They maintain an exact value based on their potential worth rather then inflating and deflating rapidly in value over the course of a week. No different than opening day at the market just a few centuries ago, everyone had as much food as they we're going to get and you had to make do. And If gems couldn't be re-filled in CR how do you propose Items are sold at such stupid rates, It's been 2,000 years since the Radiance last frequented CR, the gems would be so valuable that one chip would buy the painting. Edited March 19, 2020 by Booknerd
Karger he/him Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, Booknerd said: rates, It's been 2,000 years since the Radiance last frequented CR, the gems would be so valuable that one chip would buy the painting. Roshar's CR is one of the most traveled subastrals in the cosmere. Plenty of people can bring in gemstones. 14 minutes ago, Booknerd said: No different than opening day at the market just a few centuries ago, everyone had as much food as they we're going to get and you had to make do Except not. The limiting factor with food is its quantity not storage space. Food also can last for a time and it is not like at the market everyone could just walk in and take as much food as they could carry.
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Karger said: Roshar's CR is one of the most traveled subastrals in the cosmere. Plenty of people can bring in gemstones. Except not. The limiting factor with food is its quantity not storage space. Food also can last for a time and it is not like at the market everyone could just walk in and take as much food as they could carry. Anything Spren buy is for luxury they don't need food to live or anything like that.
Karger he/him Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Booknerd said: Anything Spren buy is for luxury they don't need food to live or anything like that. So?
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Karger said: So? So everyone having money is better for you even if they have a lot, they could get everything on their own at any time, but they come to you because buying from you is easier, this is true at all times, if they have more money they will buy more stuff and a greater variety of stuff.
Emerald_Mage he/him Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 14 hours ago, Booknerd said: So everyone having money is better for you even if they have a lot, they could get everything on their own at any time, but they come to you because buying from you is easier, this is true at all times, if they have more money they will buy more stuff and a greater variety of stuff. So then why charge for anything? If the money is worthless and anyone can get the goods, then what is the point of the money? You might as well have spren only do things for their friends. 14 hours ago, Karger said: You misunderstand. During a highstorm everyone has as much stormlight as they can have. So the currency is completely worthless. It only becomes worth something after the storm has past and you start to have scarcity again. This is why gemstones are better. They maintain an exact value based on their potential worth rather then inflating and deflating rapidly in value over the course of a week. Personally, I believe that this is why they went to the spheres in Roshar. The spren would have to go to gemstones too if the stormlight were recharged every week or so. Here's the reason I brought up the economy in the first place: I don't think Brandon would design one of the least stable economies ever thought up and give it to this civilization that has existed for thousands of years. The only way to keep the stability is for the spren to get the stormlight from the physical realm. (Which would be difficult for them, kind of like a mine in this world.)
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 17 minutes ago, Emerald_Mage said: So then why charge for anything? If the money is worthless and anyone can get the goods, then what is the point of the money? You might as well have spren only do things for their friends. Because you can use Stormlight for your own luxury, or to change your apearence like Syl mentions there are a multitude of reasons why. 18 minutes ago, Emerald_Mage said: Here's the reason I brought up the economy in the first place: I don't think Brandon would design one of the least stable economies ever thought up and give it to this civilization that has existed for thousands of years. The only way to keep the stability is for the spren to get the stormlight from the physical realm. (Which would be difficult for them, kind of like a mine in this world.) Except in the physical Spren become almost mindless without a bond, I suppose the Horneaters could do it for them but that means whoever controller the Perpendicularity controls everything.
Emerald_Mage he/him Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Booknerd said: Except in the physical Spren become almost mindless without a bond, I suppose the Horneaters could do it for them but that means whoever controller the Perpendicularity controls everything. 24 minutes ago, Emerald_Mage said: (Which would be difficult for them, kind of like a mine in this world.) Thank you for verifying what I just said. 4 minutes ago, Booknerd said: Because you can use Stormlight for your own luxury, or to change your apearence like Syl mentions there are a multitude of reasons why. Again, Stormlight is basically worthless. If you are out all you have to do is wait a week, at most. Or just ask someone nearby for some. It would be roughly equivalent to someone borrowing a lighter.
Honorless he/him Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 @Booknerd, you misspelled 'truly' and 'Radiant'. Sorry to nag, misspellings just bother me a lot 1
Karger he/him Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 43 minutes ago, Booknerd said: Except in the physical Spren become almost mindless without a bond, I suppose the Horneaters could do it for them but that means whoever controller the Perpendicularity controls everything. There are two perpendicularities and Cultivation's exists in the middle of their ocean. I do not think that any one group could control it. 1
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 56 minutes ago, Emerald_Mage said: Thank you for verifying what I just said. I wouldn't count that as difficult I would count that as suicidal. 58 minutes ago, Emerald_Mage said: Again, Stormlight is basically worthless. If you are out all you have to do is wait a week, at most. Or just ask someone nearby for some. It would be roughly equivalent to someone borrowing a lighter. That doesn't make it worthless, is electricity worthless just because we have a virtual endless supply of it(we are not getting into a discussion on the production, from a consumers standpoint there is endless) Yet the more you have the more you can do with it, stormlight isn't just money it is power, life. Iron is everywhere but it's so useful that it's occurrence is irrelevant. 20 minutes ago, Karger said: There are two perpendicularities and Cultivation's exists in the middle of their ocean. I do not think that any one group could control it. Honor's is unstable and unpredictable even if you could find it there is no guarantee that it will remain open long enough to get through retrieve stormlight and return.
Emerald_Mage he/him Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Booknerd said: I wouldn't count that as difficult I would count that as suicidal. Hence difficult. Plus, you already pointed out how they could trade for it. Thus difficult at best, suicidal if you decide to get it yourself and go into a world where you are mostly intangible and your mind degenerates. 8 minutes ago, Booknerd said: That doesn't make it worthless, is electricity worthless just because we have a virtual endless supply of it(we are not getting into a discussion on the production, from a consumers standpoint there is endless) Yet the more you have the more you can do with it, stormlight isn't just money it is power, life. Iron is everywhere but it's so useful that it's occurrence is irrelevant. 1. Spren don't use stormlight for most things. There were no stormlight lamps in shadesmar. 2. Electricity would be worthless if you could just wait a week and it was delivered by nature free of charge, with absolutely no risk, and the only thing determining how much you get is how many batteries you can get your hands on. Just get enough massive batteries to run everything. Seriously, it would be worthless even if useful. 3. Iron is also difficult to get at. Hence, we have to make mines. Even with its relative abundance, it is difficult to get at. Hence why it still has value. 1
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Emerald_Mage said: Hence difficult. Plus, you already pointed out how they could trade for it. Thus difficult at best, suicidal if you decide to get it yourself and go into a world where you are mostly intangible and your mind degenerates. 1. Spren don't use stormlight for most things. There were no stormlight lamps in shadesmar. 2. Electricity would be worthless if you could just wait a week and it was delivered by nature free of charge, with absolutely no risk, and the only thing determining how much you get is how many batteries you can get your hands on. Just get enough massive batteries to run everything. Seriously, it would be worthless even if useful. 3. Iron is also difficult to get at. Hence, we have to make mines. Even with its relative abundance, it is difficult to get at. Hence why it still has value. Good job almost got me. So if the only source of money comes from what people are willing to give you and you can't get any more for yourself, but you use it non-stop for clothes and other things how are they not out, or at least, how are things like the chain and painting so expensive yet talked about by the spren as if cheap?
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