Ascended Posted February 22, 2020 Posted February 22, 2020 Is it possible that any of the secret Societies on Roshar are led or endorsed by a herald? 2
Nuatoma Posted February 22, 2020 Posted February 22, 2020 The easy answer is yes, in the case of the Skybreakers and Nale. I don’t know if you are counting them, but they have been pretty secret for thousands of years. If you are referring to the likes of Sons of Honor or Ghostbloods, I don’t know but would suspect no. 2
Karger he/him Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Ascended said: Is it possible that any of the secret Societies on Roshar are led or endorsed by a herald? We know of three secret societies on Roshar Skybreakers (Nale) Ghoostbloods(unknown) Sons of Honor(also unknown) I kind of doubt that the Sons of Honor were lead by a Herald. If they were Nale and Kelek would not have had to work with Gavilar. The Ghoostbloods similarly seem to be from outside the Rosharan system and Heralds can't worldhop. 1
Elegy he/him Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 There are 9 secret societies on Roshar (which fits 9 being symbolical of dubious and dangerous things in SA): Quote Aradel (paraphrased) I asked Brandon just how many secret societies were on Roshar. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) There are nine currently working. Words of Radiance release party (March 3, 2014) And we know most of them: Quote DrogaKrolow How many more secret societies are on Roshar? What-- More of them? Brandon Sanderson There are a few but most of the ones you haven't found out about are either in countries you haven't gone to and spent much time with or they are offworld societies that are involved in Roshar. You know most of them. DrogaKrolow.pl interview (March 17, 2017) So we have to do the counting. There's the Diagram, the Ghostbloods, the Sons of Honor, the Skybreakers. We have also seen activity from the Ire and the 17th Shard, so I guess they count since they are "currently working" there. We don't know for sure what became of the Envisagers (the cult that Teft's parents were part of), and maybe Shinovar has one that keeps the honorblades. As mentioned before, Nale is in charge of the Skybreakers, so that is one herald. Taravangian is the Diagram's boss. We don't know who's the head of the Sons of Honor, but since it was their goal to bring the heralds back, it would be very weird if it was one of those. The Cosmere-aware organizations (Ghostbloods, Ire, 17th Shard) can be ruled out for reasions explained above. That leaves 3 more. I wouldn't be surprised if there was one more among them. 2
Karger he/him Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 23 minutes ago, Elegy said: There's the Diagram... Lol. Completely forgot so many. Lets keep going. The diagram is associated with Battar who is a member but they are lead by Taravangian. Sure she could be doing some behind the scenes stuff but I personally doubt it. 25 minutes ago, Elegy said: We have also seen activity from the Ire and the 17th Shard, so I guess they count since they are "currently working" there I do not know if the he was a member of the Iri at the time but they are not associated with Heralds(as far as we know). One of them secretly being in charge stretches plausibility. The 17th shard seems to be lead by Frost. I suppose we should also count Nahz as silverlight agents(who I think are separate from the 17th shard). Also the sleepless and Cultivation may have some people. I don't think the sleepless need or have a Herald. They are also immortal. We know basically nothing about Cultvation's agents if they are separate. 1
Gilphon Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 I'm skeptical of the idea of Battar being in the Diagram. It feels plausible to me that Taravangian just made that up that because he didn't want to reveal the real source of his information. But, well, I feel bound to mention that there's at least one secret society we know nothing about, and at least one Herald we know nothing about. So there's no way we can answer this question definitively. 1
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 7 hours ago, Gilphon said: I'm skeptical of the idea of Battar being in the Diagram. It feels plausible to me that Taravangian just made that up that because he didn't want to reveal the real source of his information. There is defenitely a Herald with Taravangian. Whether it is Pailiah or Battar is unknown. Quote R'Shara A long time ago, where you said that Pailiah was the elderly ardent in Kharbranth that Shallan saw, is that right? Brandon Sanderson Yes? If you say I said that, then I did. Questioner 2 Does that mean it is still true? Brandon Sanderson Let's just say there is a Herald in close proximity to Taravangian. R'Shara It was in a signed book but we never got a picture of it. Brandon Sanderson There is a Herald in close proximity to Taravangian. I'm not being sneaky about that. R'Shara Is there more than one? Brandon Sanderson There have been in the past, but there is only one that you would call influencing him right now. But there have been others in the past.
Karger he/him Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 10 hours ago, Gilphon said: I'm skeptical of the idea of Battar being in the Diagram Taravangain has her write the essays to damage Dalinar. It is a blink and you will miss it detail. 10 hours ago, Gilphon said: But, well, I feel bound to mention that there's at least one secret society we know nothing about, and at least one Herald we know nothing about. So there's no way we can answer this question definitively. Are you referring to Tukar and Ishar?
Gilphon Posted February 24, 2020 Posted February 24, 2020 8 hours ago, Karger said: Taravangain has her write the essays to damage Dalinar. It is a blink and you will miss it detail. I mean, Dova the Ardent is a real person, but the only sign that Dova and Battar are the same person is Taravangian making that claim at the end. It's for me easy to imagine him deciding to make that claim so that Dalinar won't find it suspicious if he goes off to privately talk with Dova and comes back with a bunch of new information. 8 hours ago, Karger said: Are you referring to Tukar and Ishar? What? No, I'm referring to the WoB quoted above that says we haven't seen all of the Secret Societies because we haven't visited the countries where some of them operate, and the fact that we really have no information whatsoever about what Chana and Vedel are doing these days. Like I haven't even seen any theories about Vedel. I would not call Tukar a secret society, and we know plenty of things about what Ishar's been doing lately. 1
Frustration Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) so we have Ghostbloods Skybreakers Sons of Honor The Diagram Thadikar(or however you spell that one Highprinces name) us(the 17th shard{maybe}) The IRE Unknown unknown Even if it's just the first five that's still technically most of them. I'll edit the list if you point out others. Edited March 4, 2020 by Booknerd
+Oltux72 he/him Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 48 minutes ago, Booknerd said: so we have [..] us(the 17th shard{maybe}) The IRE(also maybe) unknown unknown Even if it's just the first five that's still technically most of them. I'll edit the list if you point out others. We have the Purelake group of agents looking for Hoid. If they are associated with the 17th Shard and Frost heads the 17th Shard, why does he not just write a letter? And if the lighthouse keeper did not work for the Ire, we have to explain why an Elantrian happens to settle a light house in Shadesmar. Also do we really believe that Felt is fully independent? In fact is he human? How sure are we, that he is not a Kandra? If he isn't working for Harmony, where are his observers?
Frustration Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Oltux72 said: We have the Purelake group of agents looking for Hoid. If they are associated with the 17th Shard and Frost heads the 17th Shard, why does he not just write a letter? And if the lighthouse keeper did not work for the Ire, we have to explain why an Elantrian happens to settle a light house in Shadesmar. Also do we really believe that Felt is fully independent? In fact is he human? How sure are we, that he is not a Kandra? If he isn't working for Harmony, where are his observers? The 17th shard just seems interested in Hoid.at least so far. One Elantrian does not mean the IRE. And who is Felt?
Honorless he/him Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Booknerd said: who is Felt? Felt is a Scadrian Worldhopper on Roshar. He was a spy during era 1 on Scadrial and was with Dalinar during his journey to Nightwatcher's Valley. He told him that she didn't like outsiders
+Oltux72 he/him Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 13 hours ago, Booknerd said: One Elantrian does not mean the IRE. But he means some secret society. This is too unlikely for pure chance and a single person. (Elantris) Spoiler Given his personal history it is easy to see that he does not want to live in Elantris. But why would he live in a lonely light house in Shadesmar? He clearly, as his words confirm, on the lookout for the resurgence of Surgebinders.
Ciridae Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 Quick WoB on Riino the lighthousekeeper: Quote Questioner Why did the Elantrians came to Roshar in the first place? Because the question came up after I reread Elantris, so... Brandon Sanderson Are you talking about... specifically... the old ones? Yeah, why were they on Roshar? So, those specific individuals - the Ire, as we call them - are a group of Elantrians that are not representing all Elantrians. They were there. The one you've met is there for a specific reason. The Ire are involved there. They're mostly... where you've seen them, is on Scadrial so far, but they're interested in Roshar. You are talking about the lighthouse keeper, I assume? So, the lighthouse keeper, wouldn't... would be counted, I guess, as one of the Ire and is there for a specific purpose, but it is not related to their general purpose, that they're trying to achieve. How's that for being vague? I'm sorry. ICon 2019 (Oct. 15, 2019) So I guess he’s at least associated with the Ire.
Havoc Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 Why has no one listed the Sleepless as a secret society yet? They are clearly up to something, protecting Aimia as well as keeping a close watch on many of our main characters. 1
SpliceosomeofAdolnasium he/him Posted April 19, 2020 Posted April 19, 2020 1. Ghostbloods 2. Diagram 3. Sons of Honor 4. Skybreakers 5. Envisagers? 6. 17th shard 7. IRE? 8. Sleepless? 9. ?
Karger he/him Posted April 19, 2020 Posted April 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Odium Reigns said: 9. ? We have not seen all of them. So in order GB almost certainly not(Worldhoppers). Diagram involved but not lead by(Founded by T). Sons of Honor is a probably not(Gavilar seems to be acting as a middleman and that is unnecessary if he there are Heralds on both sides) Envisagers we don't know much about. Could be Vedel I suppose. Self harm to make you stronger would fit in well with her insanity but we really don't know enough to judge. 17th no(Worldhoppers). Sleepless no(immortal so no real need for Heralds)
+Oltux72 he/him Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 11 hours ago, Odium Reigns said: 9. ? After getting a letter Harmony is likely investigating. So whoever is doing that for him. (Scadrial) Spoiler Kandra, Pathian priests, Felt, Allomancer Jack ...
Necessary Eagle she/her Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 On 2/23/2020 at 7:43 PM, Gilphon said: What? No, I'm referring to the WoB quoted above that says we haven't seen all of the Secret Societies because we haven't visited the countries where some of them operate, and the fact that we really have no information whatsoever about what Chana and Vedel are doing these days. Like I haven't even seen any theories about Vedel. The Tor reread has a theory that Dova is actually Vedel. 1
Karger he/him Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 On 4/20/2020 at 4:13 AM, Oltux72 said: (Scadrial) Please no.
+Child of Hodor Posted April 22, 2020 Posted April 22, 2020 10 hours ago, Necessary Eagle said: The Tor reread has a theory that Dova is actually Vedel. Yeah, I think she fits better in that the Heralds seem to be acting antithetical to their divine attributes in modern day. Murdering people in hospitals is directly counter to Healing and Loving. Fits with Ash destroying art and Nale using the law to murder etc. It’s weird for Mr T to lie about which female Herald he’s working with though. I don’t know what it gains him. Unless Vedel wanted him to protect her identity. As far secret societies I would throw in Team Ars Arcanum. Nazh is there observing in disguise.
+Oltux72 he/him Posted April 22, 2020 Posted April 22, 2020 15 hours ago, Karger said: Please no. O yes !!! [evil laughter strength 4] Whom else would he send? I would keep the A team at home. (Scadrial) Spoiler Sending agents who cannot kill under any circumstances and are vulnerable to emotional allomancy is a risk so he cannot rely for everything on them.
Elegy he/him Posted April 22, 2020 Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) On 20.4.2020 at 10:13 AM, Oltux72 said: (Scadrial) (Scadrial as well) Allomancer Jak is very unlikely, since Jak is a follower of Survivorism. If anything, he could potentially be guided by the Survivor, judging by the bird in the short story. In that sense, he could be a Survivor equivalent of what Wax is to Harmony. I could totally see kandras coming to Roshar though! Shape-shifters are always top-tier worldhopper material. Edited April 22, 2020 by Elegy
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