Bigmikey357 he/him Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 Brandon builds unique magic systems. This is known; it is probably the thing that drew many of us to his works in the first place. But despite the unique nature of Cosmere magics it is still magic. By that I mean the purpose of magic is to do things one cannot do normally. Supernatural abilities will tend to overlap from world to world. You wanna fly? Manipulate emotions? Cast illusions? Divine the future? Multiple magic systems provide these abilities to a greater or lesser degree. In Mistborn we have seen what happens when attributes are stacked with Vin and copper clouds. By this example we know that the power from two different magic systems are stackable. Yet those are two different systems in the same family. Does it work for different families? Would an Edgedancer with F-Gold be invincible for example? We know that getting similar abilities via different magic systems is possible, we've even seen it on screen. Hoid has both Yolish and Rosharan Lightweaving now. So do they stay separate? You draw from different wells depending on which fits the situation better? Do the powers blend and create a Resonance? Or is there something like a Spiritual ideal of each ability and one gets closer to that Ideal the more one gathers that ability from other systems? 2
Karger he/him Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said: Would an Edgedancer with F-Gold be invincible for example? No. Aluminum bullets. 3 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said: Hoid has both Yolish and Rosharan Lightweaving now. So do they stay separate Sure. He may also find a way to combine them but I see no reason why they absolutely must blend together. 4 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said: Do the powers blend and create a Resonance? Everyone has resonances but Hoid has so many magic systems that the interference makes these unnoticeable.
Lightblood Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 6 hours ago, Karger said: No. Aluminum bullets. Does Aluminum bullets make it so you can't heal? if so then it would make sense that it would disrupte all investiture based healing but this is the first i've heard of it.
Karger he/him Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Lightblood said: Does Aluminum bullets make it so you can't heal? if so then it would make sense that it would disrupte all investiture based healing but this is the first i've heard of it. Quote Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014) #1 Share Copy Play/Pause Kurkistan What would happen if you shot a thug with an aluminum bullet or stabbed him with an aluminum knife? Brandon Sanderson Ah, that's a good question. The wound would not be able to heal around the aluminum, but once the aluminum came out and was gone from the system, they would be okay. Kurkistan Wait, is that a Bloodmaker, not a Thug? Brandon Sanderson Oh, you're talking about Thugs? It would work similarly, but it really wouldn't have a huge effect on them. Kurkistan Alright, because Peter was implying that there was some weird aluminum interaction with Thugs. Brandon Sanderson What was he thinking of...? There is some weird interaction but... Kurkistan In the wedding scene, Wax thinks they would have aluminum bullets to deal with Thugs, and I was like, "Oh, that's a typo." And Peter was like, "Oh no it's not..." Brandon Sanderson No, no. That would just be-- it's like I said: healing it until the bullet is gone, it's just the same as Bloodmakers. Footnote: Referring to AoL sample chapter commentary. #allomancy #aluminum #cosmere healing #feruchemy
Quantus he/him Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Lightblood said: Does Aluminum bullets make it so you can't heal? if so then it would make sense that it would disrupte all investiture based healing but this is the first i've heard of it. As @Karger's WOB shows, aluminum in a wound will prevent healing. Of course, if you Know what you are doing, the same Aluminum Bullet could be a Spike and "Remove All Powers". They'd be unable to Heal anywhere, at least as long as the Spike in Implanted and maaaybe permanently.
Karger he/him Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Quantus said: They'd be unable to Heal anywhere, at least as long as the Spike in Implanted and maaaybe permanently. You would need an extremely precise hit for that to work.
Quantus he/him Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, Karger said: You would need an extremely precise hit for that to work. Probably, but maybe not. You have to have the Intent or it simply doesnt work, but if you hit the wrong bind points it will still accomplish Hemalurgy, you just may or may not steal what you where after. He said this is less of an issue if the spike has fewer options, but becomes increasingly more of an issue with options, up to Atium that can be anything. So the flip should be true, and with aluminum the specific Bind Point shouldnt really make a difference so long as you hit one because there is only one possible outcome. And you'd be hard pressed to miss the bind points if you hit the Heart. I think it would basically be like when Wax fired a Spike at that kandra, all he had to do was get the spike into it's spiritweb, so any bind point would serve.
Bigmikey357 he/him Posted January 30, 2020 Author Posted January 30, 2020 Healing may have been an imprecise example considering how aluminum mucks up the conversation. So let's try something else. Transportation. Say I'm an Elantrian and I've found a way to make my abilities work off planet. I make it to Roshar and attract a Lightspren. That gives me two forms of Transportation. How does this affect my travel? Does it increase my range or precision because I have more connection to the ability or make it easier for me to traverse the Spiritual Realm? Or does it register as two abilities and I get a bonus Resonance? Can I use one form of Transportation to fuel the other as circumstances change?
Karger he/him Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Bigmikey357 said: That gives me two forms of Transportation We have no idea how the second one works so it is not like we can give you a real answer on that. 1
Pathfinder Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Bigmikey357 said: Healing may have been an imprecise example considering how aluminum mucks up the conversation. So let's try something else. Transportation. Say I'm an Elantrian and I've found a way to make my abilities work off planet. I make it to Roshar and attract a Lightspren. That gives me two forms of Transportation. How does this affect my travel? Does it increase my range or precision because I have more connection to the ability or make it easier for me to traverse the Spiritual Realm? Or does it register as two abilities and I get a bonus Resonance? Can I use one form of Transportation to fuel the other as circumstances change? I think the closest we can come to an example of this so far is when a radiant of an order holds an honorblade of the same order, so they are granted the same surge twice. Brandon was asked would that cause some compounding, and Brandon stated it would to a small degree. Now this is not a conclusive answer, but I think we could theoretically take that answer and apply it to the scenario you present. It would make it a bit stronger, but potentially not game breaking. Now as to resonances, I could see a resonance potentially forming, as it requires a few powers. Once you get past a certain number (I feel like it is three but I don't know if it was ever explicitly stated), then it is difficult to get resonances as you are focusing on too many powers. Side note, I think a truthwatcher with f-gold would be better personally, because I still lend towards Brandon's idea that radiant orders tend to learn one surge first over the other, and tend to be better in that surge. (so truthwatchers tend to learn progression first. Just like elsecallers tend to learn transformation first and ranged soulcasting is due to them being very practiced in it. That a lightweaver if they chose to focus on it, could potentially learn to do the same). So I would be interested in seeing how OP Truthwatcher f gold healing would be considering the combo of regrowth, stormlight healing, and f-gold.
Karger he/him Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 32 minutes ago, Pathfinder said: That a lightweaver if they chose to focus on it, could potentially learn to do the same). So I would be interested in seeing how OP Truthwatcher f gold healing would be considering the combo of regrowth, stormlight healing, and f-gold Yeah but edgedancers are the unkillable order thanks to abrasion.
Pathfinder Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Karger said: Yeah but edgedancers are the unkillable order thanks to abrasion. I think I know what you are referring to, but just in case, could you elaborate? Why would they be unkillable due to abrasion? Edited January 30, 2020 by Pathfinder
Karger he/him Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Pathfinder said: I think I know what you are referring to, but just in case, could you elaborate? Why would they be unkillable due to abrasion? Greater mobility, next to impossible to grapple with, blunt force trauma less effective. A bunch of other ones as well.
Steel Inquisitive he/him Posted January 31, 2020 Posted January 31, 2020 I am curious what would happen if a Bondsmith had f-duralumin. Would he be able to use Spiritual adhesion to form connections and then store it right away? If he was storing would it be easier to form the connections? Thoughts @Bigmikey357
Bigmikey357 he/him Posted January 31, 2020 Author Posted January 31, 2020 I happen to subscribe to the theory that all possible powers in the Cosmere are a part if a Spiritual ideal, that the more power one acquires of a particular ability the closer one comes to that ideal. So a Bondsmith/Duraluminum Ferring will be better able to form Connection or even create connections between things not normally connectable. Each time one gains a complementary power from a different Shard they are closer to what Adonalasium could accomplish. Makes Hoid even more scary if you ask me. 1
Quantus he/him Posted January 31, 2020 Posted January 31, 2020 4 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said: I happen to subscribe to the theory that all possible powers in the Cosmere are a part if a Spiritual ideal, that the more power one acquires of a particular ability the closer one comes to that ideal. So a Bondsmith/Duraluminum Ferring will be better able to form Connection or even create connections between things not normally connectable. Each time one gains a complementary power from a different Shard they are closer to what Adonalasium could accomplish. Makes Hoid even more scary if you ask me. That's an interesting theory, though Im not sure it jives with the whole idea that too many powers actively interfer with each other, which is why Fullborn are impossible in Nature, for example, and why Mistborn and Full Feruchemists dont develop resonances. 11 hours ago, Steel Inquisitive said: I am curious what would happen if a Bondsmith had f-duralumin. Would he be able to use Spiritual adhesion to form connections and then store it right away? If he was storing would it be easier to form the connections? Thoughts @Bigmikey357 Huh, interesting thought. One possible outcome is simply that cycling the Connection through a Metalmind might replace the Type of Investiture is forming the Connection, swapping Stormlight out for Preservation's power. The reason this might be significant is the fact that Stormlight innately leaks and bleeds away and want to return to the pseudo Water-Cycle. This is why nearly every surge is a temporary duration (there's WOB that Breaths stick better, for example). So if the F-Gold Bondsmith created a Connection with Stormlight it would wind down relatively quickly. But if he store and withdrew it from a metalmind, it might replace the Stormlight investiture with Preservation Investiture, that is less prone to leakage.
Bigmikey357 he/him Posted January 31, 2020 Author Posted January 31, 2020 7 hours ago, Quantus said: That's an interesting theory, though Im not sure it jives with the whole idea that too many powers actively interfer with each other, which is why Fullborn are impossible in Nature, for example, and why Mistborn and Full Feruchemists dont develop resonances Adonalasium had the full power suite before Shattering, thus had no need for Resonance. He likely didn't require any certain conditions to use such powers or to grant them to whomever he chose. Someone gaining a particular power like healing or Fortune manipulation from multiple Shard sources should therefore have no need for Resonance either as the ability gets more broken and OP. Because it isn't about gaining more powers per se. I'm not necessarily talking about becoming a Fullborn and a Radiant and an Elantrian and the like. It's more about Compounding, stacking the same power from different sources. 1
Pathfinder Posted January 31, 2020 Posted January 31, 2020 25 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said: Adonalasium had the full power suite before Shattering, thus had no need for Resonance. He likely didn't require any certain conditions to use such powers or to grant them to whomever he chose. Someone gaining a particular power like healing or Fortune manipulation from multiple Shard sources should therefore have no need for Resonance either as the ability gets more broken and OP. Because it isn't about gaining more powers per se. I'm not necessarily talking about becoming a Fullborn and a Radiant and an Elantrian and the like. It's more about Compounding, stacking the same power from different sources. Yolish lightweaving that Hoid possesses is a pre-shattering magic system with limitations.
Quantus he/him Posted January 31, 2020 Posted January 31, 2020 29 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said: Adonalasium had the full power suite before Shattering, thus had no need for Resonance. He likely didn't require any certain conditions to use such powers or to grant them to whomever he chose. Someone gaining a particular power like healing or Fortune manipulation from multiple Shard sources should therefore have no need for Resonance either as the ability gets more broken and OP. Because it isn't about gaining more powers per se. I'm not necessarily talking about becoming a Fullborn and a Radiant and an Elantrian and the like. It's more about Compounding, stacking the same power from different sources. Adonalsium himself had all the Investiture, sure, he was a Super-shard or something, but Shards themselves dont use magic systems, they just manipulate reality directly. And besides, that's a completely different thing than trying to characterize how he might have interacted with literally anyone or anything at the time. And as @Pathfinder pointed out, the only pre-shattering magic we have confirmed is one that did have limitations.
SzethIsBadAsHell he/him Posted February 1, 2020 Posted February 1, 2020 On 1/30/2020 at 11:05 AM, Pathfinder said: I think the closest we can come to an example of this so far is when a radiant of an order holds an honorblade of the same order, so they are granted the same surge twice. Brandon was asked would that cause some compounding, and Brandon stated it would to a small degree. Now this is not a conclusive answer, but I think we could theoretically take that answer and apply it to the scenario you present. It would make it a bit stronger, but potentially not game breaking. Now as to resonances, I could see a resonance potentially forming, as it requires a few powers. Once you get past a certain number (I feel like it is three but I don't know if it was ever explicitly stated), then it is difficult to get resonances as you are focusing on too many powers. Side note, I think a truthwatcher with f-gold would be better personally, because I still lend towards Brandon's idea that radiant orders tend to learn one surge first over the other, and tend to be better in that surge. (so truthwatchers tend to learn progression first. Just like elsecallers tend to learn transformation first and ranged soulcasting is due to them being very practiced in it. That a lightweaver if they chose to focus on it, could potentially learn to do the same). So I would be interested in seeing how OP Truthwatcher f gold healing would be considering the combo of regrowth, stormlight healing, and f-gold. I think a better source for compounding and new resonances would be if a Radiant got a hold of an aligned Honorblade .Lets say a lightweaver got ahold of the elsecsller honorblade . He could compound the transmutation surge and create new resonances with lightweaving and transportation as elsecsllers don’t have that surge!
Bigmikey357 he/him Posted February 1, 2020 Author Posted February 1, 2020 Sure Uncle Addie granted abilities with limitations when he was whole. If I were the one passing out the powers of creation I would impose limits too so as not to have someone challenging me. But there is a distinction between power and system to my mind. If one is gathering powers from different Shards I believe it serves as a workaround for the limitations imposed by system. Take the Hoid example for instance. He now has 2 forms of Illusion, making him a much more powerful illusionist than if he held either power alone. So let's say there are other Shards that grant an Illusion component and that somehow Hoid were able to meet the conditions to obtain that power. How much stronger would that power be? There's three possibilities, either they compound and thus create a more powerful surge, ever closer to what a God would employ, they cancel each other out due to wave interference, or they stay in tact but separate, to be used accordingly, like a toolbox with different sized wrenches. I subscribe to the first but the other possibilities are viable as well lMO.
Pathfinder Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 On 1/31/2020 at 7:11 PM, SzethIsBadAsHell said: I think a better source for compounding and new resonances would be if a Radiant got a hold of an aligned Honorblade .Lets say a lightweaver got ahold of the elsecsller honorblade . He could compound the transmutation surge and create new resonances with lightweaving and transportation as elsecsllers don’t have that surge! I like that idea. Either using an honorblade from a different order, so you get access to 4 surges, and potentially get 6 resonances, or as you said pick an honorblade of an order one "over" as it were, thereby strengthening slightly one surge, while also getting two new resonances.
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