Shallen face of the KR.

[High prince of geeks]

I think that either Dalinar or Kalldin, possibly the two working together, would be the leaders of the new KNights Radiant. While they may or may not be seen as such I think Shallen will become the face of the KR to the people. This stems from the fact that  pattern states they need more then Kalladin, a fighter, they need her.

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

From the sounds of it Skybreakers and Truthwatchers probably tended to smurf some people off. It would make some sort of PR group necessary.

 

So I guess that would make the Lightweavers the diplomats of the KR. Or would that be ambassadors?

Edited May 26, 2014 by SmurfAquamarineBodies

[Khyrindor]

Well the bondsmiths were like the leaders of the KR, seen as kings to them. Dalinar will be leader.

[Chrono]

From the sounds of it Skybreakers and Truthwatchers probably tended to smurf some people off. It would make some sort of PR group necessary.

 

 

The Dustbringers also had a bad reputation, going from Words of Radiance. In fact, they had such a bad rep, they were often compared to Voidbringers. Ouch.

 

Given that Shallan is going to be busy pursuing the Ghostbloods, Kaladin's off in Hearthstone, Jasnah is floating around who knows where, and Renarin doesn't have the best social skills, I'm pretty sure that Dalinar's gonna be the face of the KR. He's already a world leader, people are starting to respect him again, and he's given up his Shards in order to bond the Stormfather. Pretty sure this means that he's going to be in charge of the PR.

[Argent]

Dalinar Kholin, Highprince of Human Resources.

[maxal]

The Dustbringers also had a bad reputation, going from Words of Radiance. In fact, they had such a bad rep, they were often compared to Voidbringers. Ouch.

 

I thought it was their power that scared people away not their personality. One of our prospect to become Dustbringer actually has the best of people skills so...

 

 

Given that Shallan is going to be busy pursuing the Ghostbloods, Kaladin's off in Hearthstone, Jasnah is floating around who knows where, and Renarin doesn't have the best social skills, I'm pretty sure that Dalinar's gonna be the face of the KR. He's already a world leader, people are starting to respect him again, and he's given up his Shards in order to bond the Stormfather. Pretty sure this means that he's going to be in charge of the PR.

 

I agree that Dalinar will be the face of the Radiant, but I am not sure he is the best person to do so. Yes, he is respected, but as Wit pointed out, he is a tyrant. He imposes his will and tolerates no false step. He also has much issues judging people often giving his trust to undeserving people. He failed to see Sadeas and Amaram treason.

 

As for Shallan, big NO. First, she is just a teenager and if Brandon pulls out some ridiculous plot where the 17 years old is wiser, smarter, better than everyone twice her age (similarly to what is done in most YA), I will scream my head out. It was quite tedious already to watch a kid uncover ALL mysteries with basically no help when other people work their lifetime to uncover much less, I will be offended if he keeps at it. Shallan needs to be wrong at some point and make some mistakes just like anyone her age would. Besides, she is to unstable emotionally to be a spokes-person.

 

The Radiant need someone with charisma, people's skills, someone others would just like and want to follow. Dalinar inspires respect and authority, but I am not so sure he is the right person. On the short term, yes, but on the long term?

 

I could see Jasnah doing it as she is a Elsecaller, but Jasnah is cold, distant and has no empathy so I do not know how she would fare.

 

Big dilemma here.

[Moogle]

I thought it was their power that scared people away not their personality. One of our prospect to become Dustbringer actually has the best of people skills so...

 

I think you're half-right. It probably has a little bit to do with the red eyes of the Dustbringers and their Surge being Division, which is the Surge of Destruction and Decay. Sounds pretty terrifying.

 

It might also have something to do with (based on our speculation of Adolin's actions being in line with the Dustbringers) the fact that they murder people who need to be murdered. They sound fairly brutal, even if individual members might have good interpersonal skills.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Moogle

[Patrick Star]

As long as Amaram doesn't become the face of the KR/PR, I'm happy (WHY, Dalinary, WHY?!  Why would you do such a thing?!) 

[maxal]

I think you're half-right. It probably has a little bit to do with the red eyes of the Dustbringers and their Surge being Division, which is the Surge of Destruction and Decay. Sounds pretty terrifying.

 

It might also have something to do with (based on our speculation of Adolin's actions being in line with the Dustbringers) the fact that they murder people who need to be murdered. They sound fairly brutal, even if individual members might have good interpersonal skills.

 

They have red eyes????

[Moogle]

They have red eyes????

 

Kaladin has blue eyes, and the gem of the Windrunners is sapphire. Stonewards have tan eyes, and they have topaz for their gem.

 

Dustbringers have ruby for a gem, therefore we can predict that they have red eyes.

 

I probably shouldn't state it as fact, but I'm 99% certain they have red eyes.

[Terisen]

I'm pretty sure Amaram is out. Dalinar makes the most logical sense, purely from a societal standpoint. As highprince, everyone else that is currently in the Knights Radiant (Renarin, Shallan, Jasnah, Kaladin) is essentially under the rule of Dalinar anyway. It would create a massive conflict of interest if, say, Renarin (or Adolin, if he becomes a knight) were to lead the Radiants and yet were under the jurisdiction of Dalinar when it came to social matters in Alethkar. Not saying it can't happen, but the characters already have this built in "bias" to defer to Dalinar.

Also, as has been noted here, Dalinar is a Bondsmith, which seemed to have some position of power within the pre-Recreance Radiants anyway. Yes, Dalinar is something of a tyrant, but at least he's working towards the right goal.

[maxal]

Kaladin has blue eyes, and the gem of the Windrunners is sapphire. Stonewards have tan eyes, and they have topaz for their gem.

 

Dustbringers have ruby for a gem, therefore we can predict that they have red eyes.

 

I probably shouldn't state it as fact, but I'm 99% certain they have red eyes.

 

Well, I thought Radiants had lighteyes... Red eyes are not lighteyes... I somehow do not see Radiants having red eyes... As for Stonewards, we haven't met any Stonewards except for Taln. Him having tan eyes may just be a coincidence. Moash eyes became tan as well after bonding his shardblade.... Amaram has tan eyes as well.

 

I am confused. Do we have any solid evidence of this?

[bookspren]

IIRC, the female Radiant Dalinar sees in his "Starfalls" vision, who is apparently a Stoneward, has light tan eyes. (Checking, yep, Chapter 19 of TWoK says "light tan eyes")  We've also seen Kaladin's eyes turn light blue.  

So it seems reasonable to me to assume that Radiants have eyes that glow a light shade of whatever color their associated gemstone is. Since Dustbringers/Releasers are associated with rubies I fully expect to see them with light red eyes. Which would look really scary. And evil.

I just remembered that Shallan's gem is the garnet, which is reddish. I don't recall any mention of her eyes turning strange colors, but that might be because, as a Lightweaver, she is somehow able to disguise that, even unconsciously.

[maxal]

IIRC, the female Radiant Dalinar sees in his "Starfalls" vision, who is apparently a Stoneward, has light tan eyes. (Checking, yep, Chapter 19 of TWoK says "light tan eyes")  We've also seen Kaladin's eyes turn light blue.  

So it seems reasonable to me to assume that Radiants have eyes that glow a light shade of whatever color their associated gemstone is. Since Dustbringers/Releasers are associated with rubies I fully expect to see them with light red eyes. Which would look really scary. And evil.

I just remembered that Shallan's gem is the garnet, which is reddish. I don't recall any mention of her eyes turning strange colors, but that might be because, as a Lightweaver, she is somehow able to disguise that, even unconsciously.

 

Actually, the stone for the Stonewards is Topaz and according to Internet, they come in all colors..... The stone for Bondsmith is Heliodor and Dalinar's eyes have not changed from blue to yellow. The stone for Truthwatcher is emerald and Renarin's eyes have not turned to green... or do we know his eyes colors? I have always assumed he had mostly black hair with a few blond locks and blue eyes.

 

Garnet is a red as ruby so if the theory is true, than Shallan would have red eyes.... .Shallan is the most advanced KR we have so far and if her eyes have not changed yet (Kal eyes color changed when his summoned his sprenblade and Shallan had hers for years), than I find it unlikely the eye color of a Radiant changes to match its given stone. We have no evidence she is hiding her eyes colors and for her to maintain a perpetual illusion would require her perpetually drawing on stormlight which is not plausible.

 

Nah I am not buying that theory not until I get more solid evidence than Kal blue eyes and some Stonewards with tan eyes. All coincidence except maybe for Kal as we expected his eyes to change.

[Moogle]

Actually, the stone for the Stonewards is Topaz and according to Internet, they come in all colors..... The stone for Bondsmith is Heliodor and Dalinar's eyes have not changed from blue to yellow. The stone for Truthwatcher is emerald and Renarin's eyes have not turned to green... or do we know his eyes colors? I have always assumed he had mostly black hair with a few blond locks and blue eyes.

 

Color is important to Surgebinding. Gems may come in different colors, but there is one 'canonical' color for each Order; see the Surgebinding Chart for them (Stonewards are the very top left).

 

WoB on color:

 

ArsenoPyrite ()

I have a technical question here re: gemstones in The Stormlight Archive. How are the lines drawn between different types of gems? Emerald and Heliodor are both varieties of the mineral beryl. Emerald can get its color from trace amounts of chromium, vanadium and/or iron. Heliodor gets its color from iron combined with microscopic crystal defects. So, is the line between these two defined by color? If so, would a heliodor lose its usefulness if it were heated (which would turn it colorless or pale blue). Is it defined by trace elements—in which case, how do you deal with emeralds, or with aquamarine (the blue variety of beryl, which can also contain chromium or vanadium in small quantities and is mostly colored by iron)? Sorry for getting so technical, but this gem nerd needs to know!

Brandon Sanderson

I actually spent a long time working on this while building the world. You'd probably be amused by how long I spent on it. Chemically, many of them are actually very similar, as you pointed out. I tried doing the book originally with them all being different, not using any that were basically the same crystal with different colors, but it didn't work out. There weren't enough, and so I had to stretch to make it all work.

So, I went back to the original, and decided that color was enough to differentiate them. Just as steel and iron are very similar in the Mistborn world, emerald and heliodor can be very similar—but produce different effects. The idea here is that the physical items (like the metals or the crystals) provide a key by which magical interaction occurs.

So, in a long winded answer, a gemstone with an impure color would be considered like a bad alloy in the Mistborn magic—it either wouldn't work at all, or would work very poorly. The chemical and color signature needs to be of a specific variety to provide the proper key to accessing the power of transformation.

(source)

 

As to the Stonewards, they and the Windrunners are specifically named in Dalinar's vision:

 

Only then did he see that the man’s eyes were dark brown. That gave Dalinar a shock of incredulity. Those around him treated the man like a brightlord. “…the Order of the Stonewards, my lord,” the still-mounted scout was saying. “And a large number of Windrunners. All on foot.”

“But why?” the darkeyed officer demanded. “Why are Radiants coming here? They should be fighting the devils on the front lines!”

...

Men and women in gleaming Shardplate charged forward. The scout pulled to a halt, looking at the charging Shardbearers. They ran shoulder to shoulder, not a single one of place. Like a crystalline wave. As they drew closer, Dalinar could see that their Plate was unpainted, but it glowed either blue or amber at the joints and across glyphs at the front, as with other Radiants he’d seen in his visions.

 

Conveniently, the Windrunners and Stonewards all have blue or amber glowing Plate, which matches up with their gemstones quite nicely.

 

Flash forward to another vision:

 

Dalinar pulled himself to Taffa. She was alive, though her side was torn and flayed. Seeli tugged at her, weeping. Need to…do something… Dalinar thought dully.

“Be at peace,” a voice said. Dalinar lurched, turning to see a woman in delicate Shardplate kneeling beside him, holding something bright. It was a topaz entwined with a heliodor, both set into a fine metal framework, each stone as big as a man’s hand. The woman had light tan eyes that almost seemed to glow in the night, and she wore no helm. Her hair was pulled back into a bun. She raised a hand and touched his forehead.

Ice washed across him. Suddenly, his pain was gone. The woman reached out and touched Taffa. The flesh on her arm regrew in an eyeblink; the torn muscle remained where it was, but other flesh just grew where the chunks had been torn out. The skin knitted up over it without flaw, and the female Shardbearer wiped away the blood and torn flesh with a white cloth. Taffa looked up, awed.

“You came,” she whispered. “Bless the Almighty.” The female Shardbearer stood; her armor glowed with an even amber light. She smiled and turned to the side, a Shardblade forming from mist into her hand as she rushed to aid her companion.

 

It is apparent that this Stoneward has light tan eyes.  Kaladin has light blue eyes. A Dustbringer, like the one in Dalinar's Purelake vision, with their glowing red armor, is very likely to have light red eyes:

 

Not just a Shardbearer. Radiant. A knight in resplendent Shardplate that glowed with a deep red at the joints and in certain markings. Armor did that in the shadowdays. This vision was taking place before the Recreance.

 

As to Moash's eyes turning tan, it is likely he bonded with a Stoneward's Blade.

 

As to Shallan, I expect being a lighteyes before she ever bonded Pattern may have had some effect on her eye color. Certainly Jasnah's hasn't changed, despite having a Shardblade.

 

Also, have this WoB:

 

Q:  Will a Surgebinder's eye color change when they Surgebind or have a Blade. Is the color of their eyes corresponding to their Order? So Windrunners would do blue.

A:  Yes.

Q:  So each Order does a different eye color?

A:  Each Order does indeed have an eye color representation.

(source)

[maxal]

Oh crap. How do we explain Shallan logically?

[Moogle]

Oh crap. How do we explain Shallan logically?

 

She was already a lighteyes, so Pattern doesn't override that. Much like Dalinar, who bonded a new Blade, didn't have his eye color change.

 

(Possibly?)

 

It could also be Lightweaver shenanigans, or possibly she hasn't said enough truths.

[Terisen]

I wonder if the same situation would arise if a radiant bonded another spren from a different order. Say they break their oaths in one order and then bond a spren from another order. Would their eye color change? That seems to be sort of what is happening with Shallan. I don't even know if my scenario is even valid though.

[Moogle]

I wonder if the same situation would arise if a radiant bonded another spren from a different order. Say they break their oaths in one order and then bond a spren from another order. Would their eye color change? That seems to be sort of what is happening with Shallan. I don't even know if my scenario is even valid though.

 

Maybe it causes heterochroma, like that one person has that Shallan sees as a child. I posted the same question in the Ultimate List a while back, and no one's asked Brandon.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Moogle

[kari-no-sugata]

Shallan / Lightweaver's colour is indeed garnet, confirmed in-world. See beginning of chapter 71:

 

Kaladin stared at the glistening length of metal, which dripped with condensation from its summoning. It glowed softly the color of garnet along several faint lines down its length.

 

 

I do wonder if Shallan's eyes should be garnet? Kaladin's change doesn't seem to be temporary due to excessive Stormlight use or something since Dalinar doesn't comment on his eyes reverting. Is being lighteyed have anything to do with it or is she a special case?

 

Random thought: maybe Shallan's eyes changed to garnet as a child and this is what her mother noticed (I've wondered if maybe Shallan's mother thought Shallan was becoming a Voidbringer). But if so, nobody else has noticed and commented on it which is odd. Is it possible that Shallan has been sub-consciously keeping her eye colour the same? Or is it that lighteyed people's eyes only change when they hit the highest level as a Radiant? Or not at all?

[Aether]

We know that the Knights Radiant get their Blades at different levels (Oaths), so it sounds plausible that the same might be true for the eye colour.

 

Another possibility is that the eyes change when they fully embrace their identity as a Knight Radiant (as well as what that represents), as Kaladin does towards the end of Words of Radiance. Dalinar is only at his very first Ideal (at a time when Kaladin still had his pre-radiancy eyes), and I think we can make a good case for Shallan still not having grown comfortable with her Knighthood. Also, we have no idea how far along Jasnah is.

[Moogle]

We know that the Knights Radiant get their Blades at different levels (Oaths), so it sounds plausible that the same might be true for the eye colour.

 

This is at odds with how Blades normally work, though. When you bond a Shardblade, your eyes change color (Moash) unless you're a lighteyes (possibly?). Shallan has progressed far enough that she's got a Shardblade, so her eyes should have changed color. That they haven't seems to be a sign that something is different for her, or for all lighteyes.

 

It could be that you're right and she just hasn't accepted her status as KR, but that seems a bit awkward. I don't think it's about perceptions in this case, it's about a change to the sDNA causing a physical change. Then again, she did push Pattern away even though she retained him as a Blade...

 

In regards to Shallan's/Dustrbringers eye color, actually looking at the Surgebinding chart, it might be that the Lightweavers are the ones with blood-red eyes (though I still expect that to turn out to be pink when their eyes are lightened) and the Dustbringers have orange eyes. This is at odds with how rubies are normally red though. I guess 'firemarks' does imply orange.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Moogle

[maxal]

This is at odds with how Blades normally work, though. When you bond a Shardblade, your eyes change color (Moash) unless you're a lighteyes (possibly?). Shallan has progressed far enough that she's got a Shardblade, so her eyes should have changed color. That they haven't seems to be a sign that something is different for her, or for all lighteyes.

 

This is exactly what confuses me about the whole eye color changing thing. Shallan is the most advanced KR we have, she's had her shardblade for a very long time and her eyes have not changed colors. We could also argue that Jasnah is quite advanced as well and I assume Navani would have noticed if her daughter eyes changed colors.

 

I do not buy the theory that Shallan is "unconsciously" keeping her eye color the same through lightweaving because this would imply she is always drawing on stormlight, which she isn't. And that does not explain Jasnah.

 

 

 

It could be that you're right and she just hasn't accepted her status as KR, but that seems a bit awkward. I don't think it's about perceptions in this case, it's about a change to the sDNA causing a physical change. Then again, she did push Pattern away even though she retained him as a Blade...

 

She has assumed her status. She came forward to Dalinar calling herself a Radiant. She has accepted the truth. She is not in denial anymore. If all Radiant eyes were to change color, than hers should have changed by now.

 

 

In regards to Shallan's/Dustrbringers eye color, actually looking at the Surgebinding chart, it might be that the Lightweavers are the ones with blood-red eyes (though I still expect that to turn out to be pink when their eyes are lightened) and the Dustbringers have orange eyes. This is at odds with how rubies are normally red though. I guess 'firemarks' does imply orange.

 

Well, weren't the armor of the Dustbringer glimming a red light? If red goes to some order, than it must go to them. As for Lightweaver, I dunno. Maybe it is a different, lighter, shade of red.

 

Despite Brandon's WOB, we do not have enough information to make a conclusion. Shallan's (and Jasnah) case indicates that eye color changing is not happening to every knights. It is happening to Kal, but I always thought it was because he was darkeyes........... and we know getting a shardblade changes your eye color. I have always assumed lighteyes kept their eye color as we never heard of anyone else eye color changing. Adolin even thought it was some sort of legend and he wasn't sure it would happen.

[Moogle]

Well, weren't the armor of the Dustbringer glimming a red light? If red goes to some order, than it must go to them. As for Lightweaver, I dunno. Maybe it is a different, lighter, shade of red.

 

Yes, the armor of a Radiant was described by Dalinar as being red, and they used the Friction Surge, so it seems that the Dustbringers have red armor - but eye color? I don't know. The Surgebinding chart makes them seem like they're orange, and fire is red-orange, and they're associated with spark, and there are no lighteyes with red eyes that I know of.

 

The eye colors we know of (offhand: violet, green, blue, tan/yellow (are they different?), dark brown) don't include black/gray either (edit: Taravangian has gray eyes, I may have squee'd a little for no reason in particular), which is what smokestone is, so what are Skybreakers? Also, there's the Edgedancers - do Edgedancers get diamond eyes? I'd accept that maybe Dustbringers/Edgedancers never had children and so their eye color doesn't appear in the general population, but ehhhhh. I need to check up on literally every mention of eye color to work on its heritability.

 

Eyecolor is an interesting and frustrating aspect of the books.

 

Edit: Here's a list of eyecolors:

• Jasnah: "pale violet" (her mother has violet as well)
• Taravangian: "pale grey"
• Gavilar: "pale green"
• Shallan: "pale blue"
• Kaladin: "pale blue"
• Szeth: "dark green" but "pale blue" with Honorblade out
• Laral: "bright, pale green"
• Hoid: "pale blue"
• Teshav: "pale yellow"
• Jackamav: "pale green"
• Elhokar: "pale green" (like his father's)
• Dunny: dark violet in the right light
• Navani: "light violet"
• Adolin: blue

(Note: haven't found them all.)

Edited May 28, 2014 by Moogle

[maxal]

Yes, the armor of a Radiant was described by Dalinar as being red, and they used the Friction Surge, so it seems that the Dustbringers have red armor - but eye color? I don't know. The Surgebinding chart makes them seem like they're orange, and fire is red-orange, and they're associated with spark, and there are no lighteyes with red eyes that I know of.

 

The eye colors we know of (offhand: violet, green, blue, tan/yellow (are they different?), dark brown) don't include black/gray either, which is what smokestone is, so what are Skybreakers? Also, there's the Edgedancers - do Edgedancers get diamond eyes? I'd accept that maybe Dustbringers/Edgedancers never had children and so their eye color doesn't appear in the general population, but ehhhhh. I need to check up on literally every mention of eye color to work on its heritability.

 

Eyecolor is an interesting and frustrating aspect of the books.

 

It is very unlikely every Dustbringer and every Edgedancer failed to have children....