Do you think it's possible for Adolin to bring Mayalaran back from the dead?

[+robardin he/him]

35 minutes ago, Ookla the Ingeniator said:

As an alternative possibility to Dalinar's Spiritual Connection powers being the trick, I suspect a Radiant with Regrowth might be able to heal the Spren if used on their native Cognitive Realm form. This would accomplish a very similar thing in flooding their essence with Investiture to restore what was ripped away (the way hemalurgy damage can technically be healed).

Heh, now that would be interesting.

I already suspect Adolin's "partial bond", or bond with a remnant spren in Maya ("mostly dead is slightly alive!"), granted him Stormlight healing at Thalyen Fields.

It would be amazing if he doesn't get any Surges until some time of maximum bonding with the remnant-of-Maya, and he gets a moment of being able to use Regrowth, just a little bit... And he instinctively uses it to heal Maya, resulting in a kind of feedback loop. As he heals her ever so slightly, she's able to give him more and deeper Surgebinding, which allows him to heal her further, and so on.

[Aon Tia she/her]

3 minutes ago, robardin said:

Imma Connect you up to Radiancy with the revived spren of your Blade!"

Yes while that seems dangerous also! The holder will have all the benefits of the semi bond, whatever they may be, while they will not need any oaths to be spoken!!! 
 

But I think all the dead eyes may be revived but whether they grant the semi-bond or not to their holders will be entirely left upon the discretion of the deadeyes

[Quantus he/him]

1 hour ago, The traveller said:

Yes while that seems dangerous also! The holder will have all the benefits of the semi bond, whatever they may be, while they will not need any oaths to be spoken!!! 
 

But I think all the dead eyes may be revived but whether they grant the semi-bond or not to their holders will be entirely left upon the discretion of the deadeyes

I agree that any bond granted should still be up to the discretion of the spren involved, so even if they havent spoken the Words yet they could still see some Bond benefits and power loss if the Spren thinks they are acting improperly, much like we saw in Kaladin's early days.   

[Aon Tia she/her]

5 hours ago, Honorless said:

They are three very different godspren...

Exactly!! Well then I want the three different bondsmiths to have Three very dIfferent takes on their surges of tension and adhesion! 
 

@Ookla the Ingeniator agreed.. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by The traveller

[Frustration]

Personally I want Maya to live but I want there to be problems namely she loses the ability to grant surges, everything else can be fine, instant summoning, full sentience, form change. I just don't want Adolin to be a radiant, this could be paired with still being able to use plate, but I don't think Adolin is worthy of radiance, I like the guy don't get me wrong but I don't feel he deserves it.

[+Bliev she/her]

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

Personally I want Maya to live but I want there to be problems namely she loses the ability to grant surges, everything else can be fine, instant summoning, full sentience, form change. I just don't want Adolin to be a radiant, this could be paired with still being able to use plate, but I don't think Adolin is worthy of radiance, I like the guy don't get me wrong but I don't feel he deserves it.

I disagree completely that he "deserves" it. What does it mean to deserve to be a Radiant anyways? Radiant =/= "good" or "deserving", imho. It just means a radiant spren has taken a liking to you and you can progress through the oaths at their discretion. Adolin "deserves" it as much as anyone. 

With that said, I completely agree that I would like him to remain not Radiant. I would like to see, as I mentioned before, Adolin rejecting Radiance in order to remain bonded to Maya. Knowing that if he chooses to bond a Radiant spren, he has to give her up--and choosing not to do that. I would like to think it would be that Connection to her that might revive her to sapience once again, but not healed enough to grant surges.

[Frustration]

24 minutes ago, Bliev said:

I disagree completely that he "deserves" it. What does it mean to deserve to be a Radiant anyways? Radiant =/= "good" or "deserving", imho. It just means a radiant spren has taken a liking to you and you can progress through the oaths at their discretion. Adolin "deserves" it as much as anyone. 

 

Dude he literally MURDERED Sadeas, now I think he is justified in this, however he isn't even slightly bothered by this the only regret he feels is what will happen when they find out. Like Stormfather said to become radiant first you must approach Radiance, then look for light, Adolin has not approached Radiance, so therefore he does not deserve Light.

[The Kraken's Daughter]

On 12/20/2019 at 11:46 AM, The traveller said:

But I think all the dead eyes may be revived but whether they grant the semi-bond or not to their holders will be entirely left upon the discretion of the deadeyes

I agree any bond a Shardbearer may form with their Blade's deadeye would be up to the discretion of that spren. And we did get a pretty strong confirmation earlier in the book that even "dead" spren have some ability to perceive what's going on around them in the Physical Realm, remember past events, and form opinions of people. When Dalinar retrieved Oathbringer from where Adolin had chucked it out a window, he noticed that it didn't scream as loud in his mind as other Blades. The Stormfather told him that was because it remembered the circumstances under which Dalinar obtained it, and the circumstances under which he gave it up. "It hates you, but not as much as it hates others."

[+Bliev she/her]

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

Dude he literally MURDERED Sadeas, now I think he is justified in this, however he isn't even slightly bothered by this the only regret he feels is what will happen when they find out. Like Stormfather said to become radiant first you must approach Radiance, then look for light, Adolin has not approached Radiance, so therefore he does not deserve Light.

Brandon has made it clear that this is way more a gray area—both in terms of societal morals and spren opinions—than you’re presenting it here. I remember a WOB saying “sure, Honor wouldn’t have liked it, but Honor’s dead.” And not all spren are honorspren. I believe there’s a WOB that some other spren orders would not have been bothered at all by his actions. 
 

ETA a WOB from March 2015:

Quote

Questioner

What Jasnah did, in the first book, with Shallan in the alleyway and what happened at the end of this book... between Adolin and the other character [Sadeas]. Would you put them on the same level? Or would you say that what Adolin did was maybe a little bit darker?

Brandon Sanderson

I would say that what Adolin did was less dark, personally... It just depends on your perspective, but personally I say what Adolin did was something that needed to be done and no one else was capable of doing.

Questioner

Would you say that it's going to have any ramifications for him down the line? With how it was handled?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh it's definitely—how it's handled, definitely there are ramifications, lots of ramifications. And there are certain characters who would think that what he did is totally, totally, totally wrong.

And from the same March 2014 signing:

Quote

Sweetness

What would the Willshapers think about Adolin killing Sadeas?

Brandon Sanderson

The Willshapers would probably be okay with that.

 

 

And:

Quote

Questioner

Was it moral for Adolin to kill Sadeas?

Brandon Sanderson

Which morality scheme are you looking for?

Questioner

Yours. Your personal morality.

Brandon Sanderson

My personal morality. It depends on the day. That one's on a line. I would say yes. There's a little bit of-- there's enough chaotic good in me. I would generally put myself in neutral good. But there's enough chaotic good in me to say, "Yeah, that guy asked for it. He betrayed you, he was threatening your family." I would side on Adolin's side, I think.

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by Bliev

[Frustration]

@BlievMy problem isn't so much that he did it but that he isn't sorry.

[+Bliev she/her]

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

@BlievMy problem isn't so much that he did it but that he isn't sorry.

I totally understand. My argument isn’t against your opinions on what you think he should or shouldn’t feel about his choice, but rather against your contention that he doesn’t “deserve” to be a Radiant because of that choice. He took responsibility for it. He doesn’t regret it. And Brandon has made it clear that there are people in world and out (including himself!) and spren who do not have a problem with his choice.
 

I still maintain that I don’t want him to become a Radiant as per my prior posts, but it’s not about what he “deserves”.

[Frustration]

Just now, Bliev said:

I totally understand. My argument isn’t against your opinions on what you think he should or shouldn’t feel about his choice, but rather against your contention that he doesn’t “deserve” to be a Radiant because of that choice. He took responsibility for it. He doesn’t regret it. And Brandon has made it clear that there are people in world and out (including himself!) and spren who do not have a problem with his choice.
 

I still maintain that I don’t want him to become a Radiant as per my prior posts, but it’s not about what he “deserves”.

I can respect that.

[SzethIsBadAsHell he/him]

I really don’t understand why it’s so important that Adolin doesn’t gain powers .  It’s like everyone thinks Hawkeye is cooler than wolverine . Y’all want him to be Captain America when he could be captain marvel . ( when I was a kid she was a he ... lol) Anyways the most exciting arc is for him to revive Maya that’s a game changer by itself . Please let Adolin be all he can be . Good looks and a bunch of heart won’t help him defeat the Fused .

[Lccaseiro58]

The argument that anybody can bond a spren is to ambiguous. Yes, anyone can be a radiant as long as they bond a spren, but I don't see a spren bonding with someone because they are nice or have family members with a established bond. Spren will only bond with someone that as the potential to advance in their order oaths. Example, if Maia ends up bonding with Adolin and he is not fit to swear edgedancer oaths, they will be stuck at the first oath.

50 minutes ago, Bliev said:

I totally understand. My argument isn’t against your opinions on what you think he should or shouldn’t feel about his choice, but rather against your contention that he doesn’t “deserve” to be a Radiant because of that choice. He took responsibility for it. He doesn’t regret it. And Brandon has made it clear that there are people in world and out (including himself!) and spren who do not have a problem with his choice.

The reason why someone takes responsability is important, in Adolin's case he took it to escape from being king.

[+Bliev she/her]

13 hours ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

I really don’t understand why it’s so important that Adolin doesn’t gain powers .  It’s like everyone thinks Hawkeye is cooler than wolverine . Y’all want him to be Captain America when he could be captain marvel . ( when I was a kid she was a he ... lol) Anyways the most exciting arc is for him to revive Maya that’s a game changer by itself . Please let Adolin be all he can be . Good looks and a bunch of heart won’t help him defeat the Fused .

I totally agree with this--I want Adolin to be all he can be too. My aversion to him become "Radiant" isn't that I don't want more radiants (I think it'd be cool if almost everyone bonded a spren, tbh--I want Navani to be radiant too) but it's because I want him to stick by Maya and I don't think that will result in powers as we've seen them thus far. 

 

12 hours ago, lccaseiro58 said:

The argument that anybody can bond a spren is to ambiguous. Yes, anyone can be a radiant as long as they bond a spren, but I don't see a spren bonding with someone because they are nice or have family members with a established bond. Spren will only bond with someone that as the potential to advance in their order oaths. Example, if Maia ends up bonding with Adolin and he is not fit to swear edgedancer oaths, they will be stuck at the first oath.

The reason why someone takes responsability is important, in Adolin's case he took it to escape from being king.

I disagree with this. Sapient spren have a choice of who they bond, and they have different reasons for choosing people. They are attracted to certain things, sure, and Brandon has said that they start paying attention when other spren have bonded people who are adjacent to someone, but so long as there are "broken" parts of a spirit web and the spren is attracted, a bond can form. Seems to me that there are plenty of spren who wouldn't have a problem with Adolin's choice or his reason for taking responsibility for it. Maybe not someone like Syl, but following your own code, staying true to yourself, realizing that you shouldn't be King because you're not the best suited for it? Adolin didn't blame someone else--he didn't Moash it. He just didn't act as Kal would have. 

To be honest, I think Jasnah and her spren will find both his choice and his reason to be quite logical.

[Calderis he/him]

I absolutely think that Adolin is in the process of healing Maya. I don't think it's going to be quick, or easy, but the fact that she's speaking to him, even vaguely, makes me think the hardest part is already done. But first, some setup on what exactly I think is going on with deadeye and why I don't think there's actually anything "missing" from them.

Yes, something was ripped out of the spren. I understand why people think that parts of them are "missing," I just disagree that what's missing was ever a part of what makes them up in the first place. 

When a spren transitions to the Physical in order to bond a Radiant, they turn stupid. They are sapient of themselves in the Cognitive, but are not designed to function in the Physical. When they transition, they are present in a realm that their Spiritual says that they shouldn't exist in, and that presence needs to be filled out somehow... Which I think is done by diminishing the only other aspect they have. Their Cognitive self. 

Once the bonding process begins, they're mind returns, in my opinion because they have s started to Spiritually intermingle with their bondmate. They are functioning as if they have a Physical aspect because they are sharing one with their Radiant. 

As the bond deepens, this grows stronger and stronger, until at third oath, they can actually manifest corporeally as a blade. 

So then what happens when the bond itself is ripped out of the spren? They haven't actually lost anything of themselves, but their Spiritual is still configured to say that they should exist Physically. Which, without a bondmate becomes a massive problem. They should have a Physical aspect, which without their Radiant to provide forces them to have one, and they become the blade. And dismissing the blade is not going to correct this problem, anymore than Kaladin and Co stopped needing food in Shadesmar when they were there Physically. 

The more Physical a spren is without a bond, the more must be robbed from their Cognitive Aspect to provide. A unbonded/newly bonded spren and a deadeye are suffering from the exact same issue, but at different levels of magnitude. 

Because of all of this, I think the only way to restore the spren is to give them back what was ripped out. A bond. They need the secondary Physical aspect a bond provides in order for their Cognitive Aspect to be restored. Which... Is going to be stupidly difficult. How do you develop a bond with a being who is incapable of the complex though necessary to share that bond with you? 

Firstly, I think you would need the gembond to start with to create a kind of I road to the spren in the first place. Secondly, I think meeting them in Shadesmar is absolutely crucial. It's one thing to treat the blade with respect, or even to understand intellectually that the sword you hold was a sapient being at one point... It's another thing entirely to face that being, damaged as its become, and come to still respect it and care for it.

Which is exactly what Adolin did. He had an initial shock at the woman he'd never seen before screaming at him when he tried to summon his blade... But he overcame that and came to call her friend... And then she saved him and began speaking to him. 

So yes, I think that Adolin will become an Edgedancer... But I think there's still a fairly difficult road ahead. I think he'd have to essentially reach the point of being a Third Oath Edgedancer, where Maya would be able to naturally manifest as a blade for him before the bond will form and function normally, and before he gets any powers at all. 

As to people prefering Adolin remain a normy... I mean, to each their own, but I think remaining a normy ultimately means being sidelined. This fight has barely started and he's already out of his depth. The fights are only going to get more intense. Adolin gains power... Or he fades to the background. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Calderis

[agrabes]

On 12/21/2019 at 6:53 PM, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

I really don’t understand why it’s so important that Adolin doesn’t gain powers .  It’s like everyone thinks Hawkeye is cooler than wolverine . Y’all want him to be Captain America when he could be captain marvel . ( when I was a kid she was a he ... lol) Anyways the most exciting arc is for him to revive Maya that’s a game changer by itself . Please let Adolin be all he can be . Good looks and a bunch of heart won’t help him defeat the Fused .

I think the reason a lot of people don't want to see Adolin gain powers, or maybe think that he won't, or that he shouldn't is because of his position in the story.  He is a side character.  It's sort of a rule of the genre that the side characters have two options in terms of power level: be weak but still a relatively important part of the story, or be strong but off doing their own thing independently of the main heroes.  I think we are going to see this start to shake out - the Bridge 4 Radiants, Malata, and others are not going to be parts of the story hardly at all while Navani and Dalinar stay on screen.

To me, wanting Adolin to become a radiant is a lot like saying "Why can't Alfred become a superhero in his own right to fight alongside Batman?"  It just doesn't feel right.  What's great about Alfred or other side characters is that they are different from our main heroes.  They have strengths that fill in the gaps and weaknesses of the main characters.  If Alfred was instead just another "Batman", that would be pretty lame for the story.  We already have Robin to fill that role.  The story needs an Alfred to be good.  It needs our main characters to have someone that is a non-hero to fall back on.  Someone who isn't a bad person, but just isn't up to that role of fighting evil on a day to day basis.

To me, that is the role of characters like Adolin or Navani.  They make what the main heroes do more meaningful by contrast.  You see two people who are both super competent in their own ways but just aren't right for the jobs that are done by people like Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, etc.  So to pull it back to your superhero analogy, I don't want him to be Hawkeye or Captain America.  I want him to be something like James Rhodes/Warmachine - someone who can go out and fight evil if he needs to but it's not his day job.  He's out there as a military officer doing the normal fighting stuff in the mundane everyday sense most of the time, coming home at night to the family.  Then, when the chips are down he can suit up and provide some help to the heroes.  He almost serves as a liaison between the Radiants and the Alethi as someone who's partially both but not fully either.

[Frustration]

On 12/21/2019 at 5:53 PM, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

I really don’t understand why it’s so important that Adolin doesn’t gain powers .  It’s like everyone thinks Hawkeye is cooler than wolverine . Y’all want him to be Captain America when he could be captain marvel . ( when I was a kid she was a he ... lol) Anyways the most exciting arc is for him to revive Maya that’s a game changer by itself . Please let Adolin be all he can be . Good looks and a bunch of heart won’t help him defeat the Fused .

Can you honestly imagine Adolin Sliding around on his knees? The thought makes me recoil.

[SzethIsBadAsHell he/him]

17 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Can you honestly imagine Adolin Sliding around on his knees? The thought makes me recoil.

No but I can see him skating around gracefully like a Hocky player with an enormous Shardblade . In Edgedancer Nale described the edgedancer as dominating a battlefield like ribbons cutting thru the army ! Now tell me can’t picture that!

 

36 minutes ago, agrabes said:

I think the reason a lot of people don't want to see Adolin gain powers, or maybe think that he won't, or that he shouldn't is because of his position in the story.  He is a side character.  It's sort of a rule of the genre that the side characters have two options in terms of power level: be weak but still a relatively important part of the story, or be strong but off doing their own thing independently of the main heroes.  I think we are going to see this start to shake out - the Bridge 4 Radiants, Malata, and others are not going to be parts of the story hardly at all while Navani and Dalinar stay on screen.

To me, wanting Adolin to become a radiant is a lot like saying "Why can't Alfred become a superhero in his own right to fight alongside Batman?"  It just doesn't feel right.  What's great about Alfred or other side characters is that they are different from our main heroes.  They have strengths that fill in the gaps and weaknesses of the main characters.  If Alfred was instead just another "Batman", that would be pretty lame for the story.  We already have Robin to fill that role.  The story needs an Alfred to be good.  It needs our main characters to have someone that is a non-hero to fall back on.  Someone who isn't a bad person, but just isn't up to that role of fighting evil on a day to day basis.

To me, that is the role of characters like Adolin or Navani.  They make what the main heroes do more meaningful by contrast.  You see two people who are both super competent in their own ways but just aren't right for the jobs that are done by people like Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, etc.  So to pull it back to your superhero analogy, I don't want him to be Hawkeye or Captain America.  I want him to be something like James Rhodes/Warmachine - someone who can go out and fight evil if he needs to but it's not his day job.  He's out there as a military officer doing the normal fighting stuff in the mundane everyday sense most of the time, coming home at night to the family.  Then, when the chips are down he can suit up and provide some help to the heroes.  He almost serves as a liaison between the Radiants and the Alethi as someone who's partially both but not fully either.

In your example war machine has the same physical abilities as iron man . In fact war machine has offensive weapons while iron man original concept was he was only supposed to have defensive weapons.  Iron man Powers was primarily his ingenuity . Iron man 3 and Endgane really touched on this 

I really like your reason though to be honest . I had no idea that support characters roles in a story were so limited. It makes sense . However I think Brandon is breaking that troupe. Look at bridge 4 . Teft and Lopen are Radiants now and have power . They function off screen , at least they have limited POV like in interludes . Squires can fly and lash and heal . Adolin will need those things or he will be a crutch throughout the story .

[Pathfinder]

On 12/20/2019 at 0:42 AM, The traveller said:

I have to say that i agree with this observation of yours @Pathfinder 

Thank you!

On 12/20/2019 at 0:42 AM, The traveller said:

It does make sense though! I also agree that a Bondsmith having the power of Spiritual adhesion could probably reforge the broken bond but needs a preliminary level of bonding between Radiants. However, i would like a one little twist on it and that is the bondsmith who can accomplish this is not Dalinar that is one bonded to Stormfather but Bondsmith who is bonded to Sibling! Because i think that this third bondsmith will have not the sole function of running Urithiru but he will be important in making all sorts of spren-human-fabrial bonds. 

This would also explain why Dalinar has not felt any compulsions of repairing the bond of deadeye shards and their holders! 

I am fine with this. It could be the nightwatcher bondsmith, or the sibling bondsmith. 

On 12/20/2019 at 0:42 AM, The traveller said:

I think that when and not if, Adolin revives Maya, it will be not be similar to the bond that Radiants normally make! I think Adolin will be "something new" that has never been! Their bond can be very different from other Radiants, i say, Brandon, have fun here and make something totally different but same at the same time!  

I could see that. Even healing via bondsmith could leave "scar tissue" resulting in the bond working differently than normal. 

On 12/20/2019 at 6:43 AM, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

This is a well thought out theory imo. I could see this happening . The only part I don’t see is an arms race because not every person who has a shardblade can meet the requirements of the dead spren . Adolin character is someone who if Maya was alive she would chose to bond with . But what would happen if someone had a skybreaker dead-eyes and that person did not have a respect for the law ? No matter how much he talked to the blade it wouldn’t connect because that persons ideals were too different ....

That is why I think there would then be almost like a "class" lead by Adolin regarding bonding the shardblade, while researchers looked into what type of shardblade it may be. Then they would have people bond with the blades that seem to coincide.

On 12/20/2019 at 6:43 AM, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

I don’t think This will happen. If Adolin manages to revive Maya , I could totally see him skating thru a battlefield like he had ice skates on slicing thru tons of enemies . I think Lift will be envious that she can’t do the same , she has to move around on her knees because she crashes every time she tries to stand up and use abrasion . I’m sure after seeing Adolin do it eventually she will learn ! Heck , she might even get Adolin to teach her how to skate. But teasing him nahhhh not in the cards .

My only problem with this is Adolin has no experience whatsoever with skating (to our knowledge). So I personally couldn't see him showing up Lift so early. 

On 12/20/2019 at 9:53 AM, Bliev said:

I also wonder if there isn't more to this as well. For millennia, humans have used Shardblades without caring or knowing who or what they really are. Adolin is listening and learning to love this blade and its spren, just as she is--he doesn't think, "wow, if I only she would change and make me a Radiant"; he bonds with her and listens to her--just as she is. It would be ironic if the humans could have "healed" the deadeyes all along, all while the current spren sought to keep them "safe" from humans and the current humans had no idea. I also wouldn't be surprised if Adolin has the chance to form a Radiant bond--maybe a spren becomes attracted to him--but he forgoes it out of his connection to Maya. And that might actually be the intention that awakens her. Relatedly, I actually don't think there is any way that Adolin "heals" Maya back into her original Cultivation spren state. What is broken will always have scars. Rather, I think healing a deadeye will look very different--that a bond will indeed be forged,  connection and spirit web restored in some way, but that a Radiant bond will be impossible. And I think it is through this healing process that we will learn what really happened at the Recreance.

My one thing is, it is mentioned that there is a long standing tradition to respecting and caring for your blade. So I do not think the way Adolin treats Maya (before he found out what she really was) is unique. But that is my own reading, and I totally acknowledge it can be read differently. 

On 12/20/2019 at 11:06 AM, Ookla the Ingeniator said:

I very much like this theory and agree with your assessment of what's happened so far.  As an alternative possibility to Dalinar's Spiritual Connection powers being the trick, I suspect a Radiant with Regrowth might be able to heal the Spren if used on their native Cognitive Realm form. This would accomplish a very similar thing in flooding their essence with Investiture to restore what was ripped away (the way hemalurgy damage can technically be healed).  I think a lot of the same continuity logic would apply (none of the right kind of Radiant to try before) but it would give Renarin and Adolin a really cool scene/quest together, and frankly Id rather given Renarin that Win.  Though I do also like @Traveller's suggestion of it taking one of the other Bondsmiths, just because Id find it cool if the three God-Spren granted slightly different abilities.  

I could see that happening. Would also make an awesome moment for Renarin and Adolin. Adolin was always looking out for Renarin, now Renarin would be looking out for Adolin. 

On 12/20/2019 at 11:40 AM, robardin said:

It'd be great if the Adolin/Maya semi-bond, that was formed on its own (whether because of Adolin's nature, his having visited Shadesmar to see his Blade's cognitive form, or whatever else), could only become "fully operational" with a Bondsmith's input, but that's completely different from saying a Bondsmith could do that for a large scale upgrade/recruitment effort of Shardbearers.

I respect your opinion. I could see what you said happening. Personally I think what Adolin has been doing is a tradition regarding Shardblades passed down through the ages. Some pay lip service, some do not do it at all, and still some do hold to the traditions (like Adolin). The reason for myself nothing came of it in the past was:

 

1. no one was a radiant to hear it sound different than the others (Dalinar)

2. no one was around when the realms were brought closer together to notice a difference (when the realms were brought together)

3. there hasn't been a radiant bondsmith in centuries so there wasn't the ability to fix the shardblade the rest of the way before the wielder died. 

 

So in that light, with the new knowledge, I could see it then expanding to the rest of the shardblades and be a means to try and heal the wounds of the past that occurred with the recreance. But like I said, I could totally see it being a specific circumstance as well. 

On 12/20/2019 at 11:40 AM, robardin said:

There's no reason at all to suppose that your typical Shardbearer on Roshar is at all aligned with a Radiant spren (one that that spren might have chosen, given the choice), while it seems like that is the case with Adolin and Maya.

Well I mentioned in another thread that for myself at least, the sheer number of years, with the sheer potential number of wielders, with the number of potential shardblades, I would imagine in the past, considering the tradition of respecting your shardblade, someone other than Adolin would have also treated their blade the same way as Adolin. Just in Adolin's case, other things that have not occurred in the past, have been, to facilitate the revival. 

On 12/20/2019 at 11:40 AM, robardin said:

I think it'd be awful if a Bondsmith (Dalinar or otherwise) were able to say something like, "hey, you there with a Shardblade, come over and Imma Connect you up to Radiancy with the revived spren of your Blade!"

I do not feel that is what my theory is saying. The individual still needs to bond the blade, and be a match to the blade. The individual has to genuinely live the ideals, and treat the blade with respect. Then once that bond has strengthened, then it can be bridged with the help of a Bondsmith. It is a process that takes time, but I believe can be accomplished by others. 

On 12/20/2019 at 11:46 AM, robardin said:

I already suspect Adolin's "partial bond", or bond with a remnant spren in Maya ("mostly dead is slightly alive!"), granted him Stormlight healing at Thalyen Fields.

Can you point me to the scene? Out of curiosity I checked, and the only healing I saw was Renarin healing Adolin briefly. 

On 12/20/2019 at 11:46 AM, robardin said:

It would be amazing if he doesn't get any Surges until some time of maximum bonding with the remnant-of-Maya, and he gets a moment of being able to use Regrowth, just a little bit... And he instinctively uses it to heal Maya, resulting in a kind of feedback loop. As he heals her ever so slightly, she's able to give him more and deeper Surgebinding, which allows him to heal her further, and so on.

I think that would be cool too!

On 12/20/2019 at 1:22 PM, Ookla the Ingeniator said:

I agree that any bond granted should still be up to the discretion of the spren involved, so even if they havent spoken the Words yet they could still see some Bond benefits and power loss if the Spren thinks they are acting improperly, much like we saw in Kaladin's early days.   

I agree. 

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

As to people prefering Adolin remain a normy... I mean, to each their own, but I think remaining a normy ultimately means being sidelined. This fight has barely started and he's already out of his depth. The fights are only going to get more intense. Adolin gains power... Or he fades to the background. 

My one comment to this, is it assumes that usefulness during the desolation is purely focused on physical power. There can be plenty of "normies" that are brilliant tacticians without bonding spren and be incredibly important to the war effort. Adolin is a highprince, and with that yes it includes leading the military, but also leading the infrastructure. Even being a radiant does not necessarily mean you will be in combat. Dalinar is taking the role of leader/politician over upfront fighter. His abilities aid this, but are not necessarily required to be effective. So I do not think it is fair to break it down into just two possibilities: power or nothing. Adolin to me can be plenty relevant with or without powers. 

[Frustration]

6 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

No but I can see him skating around gracefully like a Hocky player with an enormous Shardblade . In Edgedancer Nale described the edgedancer as dominating a battlefield like ribbons cutting thru the army ! Now tell me can’t picture that!

 

If I had to make Adolin a radiant I would make him a stoneward, I think contorting the terrain to suit him is far more fitting, not skating though enemies like a glorified bowling ball. But that means no maya

Lift get's away with it because she is always silly and the power set works with that. I suppose I wouldn't be too mad if he did the reverse and made everyone else slip, but even so he would need to feel at honestly sorry that he had to kill Sadeas for me to really get behind him.

[Calderis he/him]

Just now, Booknerd said:

If I had to make Adolin a radiant I would make him a stoneward, I think contorting the terrain to suit him is far more fitting, not skating though enemies like a glorified bowling ball. But that means no maya

Bowling ball? Nah, it's a lightning quick dance through enemy lines, flicking a blade about. Graceful and deadly like a striking snake. Exactly the dance his dueling has prepared him for. 

3 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

My one comment to this, is it assumes that usefulness during the desolation is purely focused on physical power. There can be plenty of "normies" that are brilliant tacticians without bonding spren and be incredibly important to the war effort. Adolin is a highprince, and with that yes it includes leading the military, but also leading the infrastructure. Even being a radiant does not necessarily mean you will be in combat. Dalinar is taking the role of leader/politician over upfront fighter. His abilities aid this, but are not necessarily required to be effective. So I do not think it is fair to break it down into just two possibilities: power or nothing. Adolin to me can be plenty relevant with or without powers. 

And were speaking about Adolin. He's not ready to step back from fighting. So there is a third option. Death. 

He's going to get sidelined, or he's going to keep fighting. Powers or no powers. 

[Pathfinder]

11 minutes ago, Calderis said:

And were speaking about Adolin. He's not ready to step back from fighting. So there is a third option. Death. 

He's going to get sidelined, or he's going to keep fighting. Powers or no powers. 

You are totally entitled to feel that way about the character, but personally I feel that is a false equivalency. Adolin was plenty effective running the military when Dalinar was contemplating retirement, and when Adolin was managing the Alethi occupation of Urithiru. You can certainly prefer to see Adolin on the battleground, and as my earlier theory shows, I believe Adolin will become a radiant, but that does not preclude Adolin from being an effective ruler without powers. Otherwise are you saying Fen, Gawx, and so on need to get powers or they are going to die?

[+robardin he/him]

13 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

If I had to make Adolin a radiant I would make him a stoneward, I think contorting the terrain to suit him is far more fitting, not skating though enemies like a glorified bowling ball. But that means no maya

Lift get's away with it because she is always silly and the power set works with that. I suppose I wouldn't be too mad if he did the reverse and made everyone else slip, but even so he would need to feel at honestly sorry that he had to kill Sadeas for me to really get behind him.

Whoa, not sure where you get this image of what the Surge of Abrasion and its use in combat from an Edgedancer would be like, but Lift is only unpracticed at it, which the Fused (and Szeth) are not. As Nalan himself said to Lift, as one who has seen many an Edgedancer in action in his time,

Quote

"It appears that you are an Edgedancer... Where you blunder, they were elegant things of beauty. They could ride the thinnest rope at speed, dance across rooftops, move through a battlefield like a ribbon on the wind."

Bowling ball? I wish I could get my ball to move like that!

[Mage of Lirigon he/him]

 

8 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

You are totally entitled to feel that way about the character, but personally I feel that is a false equivalency. Adolin was plenty effective running the military when Dalinar was contemplating retirement, and when Adolin was managing the Alethi occupation of Urithiru. You can certainly prefer to see Adolin on the battleground, and as my earlier theory shows, I believe Adolin will become a radiant, but that does not preclude Adolin from being an effective ruler without powers. Otherwise are you saying Fen, Gawx, and so on need to get powers or they are going to die?

Adolin is primarily a warrior, unlike Fen and Gawx. He can lead if he has to, but that hasn't been what he's focused on. That can change of course, but frankly, it would be a waste. Adolin is one of the best swordsmen in the world, they need folks like him to be Radiants.