Critical analysis: Radiance of the Mink (SA4)

[Wintersu]

I theorized on here some time ago that “the Herdazian general” would be a Dustbringer.

I based that on a few things, and with the release of the first bit of Stormlight 4 today on the newsletter I’d like to revisit this theory

First: We have a physical description of the General in Oathbringer, from the perspective of an Alethi officer named Sheler.

“He had dark brown skin the color of a weathered stone, and there was a hint of grey in the thin mustache on his upper lip.”

This matches the description of the Mink as described in the newsletter exactly. Of course, we already knew that it’s the same man, but it’s worth documenting for this next remark by Sheler.

“Sheler struggled to no avail. Captured by Herdazians. Their general wasn’t even a lighteyes!”

So, the general is specifically mentioned as not being a light eye. Compare this with what Lirin notices:

“He bore a thin mustache on his upper lip, silvered to grey, and was perhaps in his fifties. His sun-leathered skin was darker than most Herdazians; he almost could have passed for Azish. His eyes were a cool, soft green.”

Notice the difference? Suddenly he has cool soft green eyes, when before he was most certainly not a light eyes.

The only ways to change eye color, that we know of, are to become a shard bearer or become a Knight Radiant

Also notice this phrase:

“We left obvious weapons behind,” the mink replied”

Obvious weapons... what’s less obvious than a Shardblade not summoned?

Now, based on this, I will theorize that he is Radiant. There’s nothing we can point at, yet, that proves beyond doubt that he is, but he is extremely slippery, as proved in Oathbringer. Also, as the Diagram says, look for those who live when they should not survive. (I’m paraphrasing that one, can’t find it on short notice)

Finally, I am revising the Order that I think the Mink belongs to. Based on the new color of his eyes. They are a cool green now. This leads me to think he is an Edgedancer. It matches both the eye color and potential Surge (if what he uses to escape his manacles is indeed a Surge)

TLDR: I think the Herdazian General (the Mink, an awesome nickname) is an Edgedancer

[Pagerunner he/him]

Edgedancers have silver eyes; their gemstone is Diamond. Emerald, and green eyes, go with the Truthwatchers.

[Guest Edonidd]

He had scars on his wrists. 

 

Kaladin has the shash on his forehead but we've been repeatedly told something weird is going on there and it has to do with spiritual healing and how Kal views himself.  I don't think "The Mink" would spiritually view himself as deserving of wearing manacles.   But a shardblade could be possible.

 

Or it could just be a continuity error as none of this has went through any of the editing process.

[Honorless he/him]

The ability he demonstrates in getting out of his manacles seem to point towards the Surges of Abrasion, Cohesion or Tension. The Surge of Progression could also fill that place (dislocating joints then using Regrowth to heal). But then again, simple Stormlight can also heal a lot as we see with Shallan repeatedly. If he is a Radiant and another Truthwatcher going by his eyes, Renarin might finally have a bigger role to play.

It is also possible that the General was already a lighteyes and just used the same eye drops that Tyn and Shallan did.

Or much more simply, he bonded a Shardblade.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Honorless
typo

[Rainier]

2 hours ago, Edonidd said:

I don't think "The Mink" would spiritually view himself as deserving of wearing manacles.

It's not so much as thinking he deserves to wear manacles, as he earned those scars, and they are a part of him. They're a badge of pride, not something wrong with him that needs to be healed.

[Ciridae]

I also think that if he were able to heal with stormlight the scars would remain, it seems like that part of his past is pretty important to what kind of a person he is today. Its possible he’s not a Radiant and just bonded a normal Shardblade. Does the dead blade make you a lighteyes of the color corresponding with the dead sprens order or does it just make your eyes the light version of the color you had before? 

I would prefer if this was a continuity error and he was actually darkeyed but a Dustbringer. 

And I also love the nickname Mink 

[Isilel]

10 hours ago, Wintersu said:

 His sun-leathered skin was darker than most Herdazians; he almost could have passed for Azish. His eyes were a cool, soft green.”

Notice the difference? Suddenly he has cool soft green eyes, when before he was most certainly not a light eyes.

I have to point out that dark-eyed Rosharans also sometimes have funky eye-colors. Szeth's natural eye-color back in WoK (or was it WoR?) was dark green, for instance, and there was a mention of some dark-eyes, either one of Kal's soldiers back in his squadleader days in Amaram's army or maybe a bridegeman who had very dark violet eyes. So, Mink can both have  "cool soft green eyes" and be a darkeyes.

Of course he can also be a Truthwatcher, but it would be a bit odd, IMHO.

As to the eye-color that dead shardblades confer on their owners, we know only that Moashs's dark brown eyes were turning "tan" after a few weeks, yet his blade  featured vines during it's summoning, IIRC, so it likely was another Edgedancer blade. Amaram's eyes were also "tan", so it is a color that some ligheyes have and not just an intermediate stage of the change.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I’m just happy we finally have a name for him. I can stop referring to him as Herdazian Houdini. 

I have been in the camp that says he is a KR for a while now. However, I wonder how long he has been one. The soldiers seem to be quite used to his shenanigans, so either he isn’t using surges to free himself from the manacles, or he has been a KR for a looooong time. 

Also, eye color isn’t reliable at this stage. It hasn’t gone through continuity. Furthermore, @Wintersu, I would recommend that you put a spoiler warning for SA4 in the title. There are folks who wants to head into the book knowing nothing. 

[What's a Seawolf?]

I believe Brandon has said there will be more Dustbringers in SA4, so I think the Mink is a prime candidate.

I'd guess either Dustbringers or Stoneward. though I'm leaning towards the latter.  After all, one, we know so little about them, and two, Stonewards are the 'impossible task I don't care I'm making a stand' order.  Sounds a lot like what the Mink was doing in Herdaz. 

[Karger he/him]

15 hours ago, Wintersu said:

“Sheler struggled to no avail. Captured by Herdazians. Their general wasn’t even a lighteyes!”

So, the general is specifically mentioned as not being a light eye. Compare this with what Lirin notices:

“He bore a thin mustache on his upper lip, silvered to grey, and was perhaps in his fifties. His sun-leathered skin was darker than most Herdazians; he almost could have passed for Azish. His eyes were a cool, soft green.”

Notice the difference? Suddenly he has cool soft green eyes, when before he was most certainly not a light eyes.

The only ways to change eye color, that we know of, are to become a shard bearer or become a Knight Radiant

I hate to do this but I must point out that it is technically possible that this is just a mistake that will get cleaned up by Karen.  However the eye color does suggest truthwatcher.  This leads me to a bit of a problem.  Truthwatchers are all about helping people.  This does not seem to be his thing.  He is a leader, a warrior, a insurrectionist, and an escape artist.  However he does not spend time directly helping individual people the way most truthwatchers do(like our favorite voidbinder, that shoemaker, or the stump).  Perhaps he really is an edgedancer but Brandon made a mistake.  Perhaps he got a blade somehow(we know one is in herdaz and I doubt that the royal family wanted it falling into fused hands). 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Ookla the Prolific

[Guest Edonidd]

12 hours ago, Rainier said:

It's not so much as thinking he deserves to wear manacles, as he earned those scars, and they are a part of him. They're a badge of pride, not something wrong with him that needs to be healed.

 

I went back and read it again.  The Mink is missing a tooth and has more than a few scars covering his body, including those on his wrists which came from wearing Manacles for long periods of time.

 

This doesn't sound like the description of somebody who has ever breathed in Stormlight......yet.

[Aon Tia she/her]

12 hours ago, Edonidd said:

 

I went back and read it again.  The Mink is missing a tooth and has more than a few scars covering his body, including those on his wrists which came from wearing Manacles for long periods of time.

 

This doesn't sound like the description of somebody who has ever breathed in Stormlight......yet.

Oh yes. That is a problem, the tooth most certainly should have grown back and other scars at least should have faded if not the one on his wrist.

About the "less obvious weapons":

Spoiler

Quote

Nearby, the Mink and his soldiers stopped in place, but Lirin could see their arms shifting beneath cloaks. They’d said they’d left behind “obvious” weapons. Almighty help him, if this turned bloody . . .

 

I am not sure this scene describes summoning of shardblade. 

But i would still say that i like the idea of the Mink being a candidate for Radianthood. May be not before but now, after having lost the war and getting so many of his soldiers killed, i think he should "broken" enough to attract some spren's attention. And since, spren attract other spren, it is possible that it will happen once he reaches Urithiru. And I would like to see someone become a stoneward on-screen.

 

[Isilel]

16 hours ago, Edonidd said:

This doesn't sound like the description of somebody who has ever breathed in Stormlight......yet.

Dalinar still has his scars and his broken nose though? If Mink's scars and the missing tooth predate his Radianthood they wouldn't have  been erased, necessarily.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Isilel

[Caden335]

Dustbringer I support

[+robardin he/him]

On 11/27/2019 at 8:28 AM, Toaster Retribution said:

I’m just happy we finally have a name for him. I can stop referring to him as Herdazian Houdini. 

I have been in the camp that says he is a KR for a while now. However, I wonder how long he has been one. The soldiers seem to be quite used to his shenanigans, so either he isn’t using surges to free himself from the manacles, or he has been a KR for a looooong time. 

Also, eye color isn’t reliable at this stage. It hasn’t gone through continuity. Furthermore, @Wintersu, I would recommend that you put a spoiler warning for SA4 in the title. There are folks who wants to head into the book knowing nothing. 

Haha, that's great. BTW we've seen "mink" used a number of times already in SA; I guess there are minks (little furry mammals) on Roshar the Land of Crustaceans, or it's "local translation" like the word "axehound" standing in for some "disgusting crab thing with seventeen legs" that gets called a mink.

As for eye color, "soft green" doesn't necessarily mean "light green". Moash also has green eyes as a darkeyes, but not the kind of "light" eyes that matters for Vorin purposes, right, so basically dark green eyes? -- Whoah, according to the Coppermind, that was a continuity error in TWoK and he does in fact have brown eyes, so perhaps this is another example of it.

[+Bliev she/her]

Yes, it's been continuitied out now:

Quote

They did as requested, and Lirin pulled over his stool beside the apparent leader. He bore a thin, silvered mustache on his upper lip, and was perhaps in his fifties. His sun-leathered skin was darker than most Herdazians’; he could almost have passed for Azish. His eyes were a deep dark brown.

 

So he's not a Radiant...yet.

[Calderis he/him]

1 hour ago, Bliev said:

Yes, it's been continuitied out now:

So he's not a Radiant...yet.

Even that not necessarily true. Just means he's either not progressed enough to summon a blade or he hasn't summoned his blade in a few hours. 

Kaladin's eyes revert to dark as well. 

[+Bliev she/her]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

Even that not necessarily true. Just means he's either not progressed enough to summon a blade or he hasn't summoned his blade in a few hours. 

Kaladin's eyes revert to dark as well. 

Good point. I had forgotten that piece of lore. 

I do think it's interesting that *they were* light in a prior draft and now they aren't. Maybe we caught a hint that was edited once they rememberers the Kaladin thing?

[+Bzhydack he/him]

On 27.11.2019 at 6:11 PM, Guest Edonidd said:

 

I went back and read it again.  The Mink is missing a tooth and has more than a few scars covering his body, including those on his wrists which came from wearing Manacles for long periods of time.

 

This doesn't sound like the description of somebody who has ever breathed in Stormlight......yet.

Scars are part of his history, part who he is. He is probably even proud of them, so they wont heal. Also, if he has not enough Stormlight, it will heal only the most dangerous wounds and nothing left for more.

Also, we know that dark Eyes not become light right after becoming Radiant. Kal get his eyes light when he progressed in Oaths. And they dont last long.

[LuckyJim]

Personally, I don't think he's a Radiant yet. Most predictions that he's a Dustbringer, Stoneward or Willshaper are all orders with spren that are very opposed to forming oaths with humans again. Also, I think it would be a lot more interesting if he's just a talented escape artist, no magic necessary, people are capable of some very impressive feats just with their own abilities.

Edited September 20, 2020 by LuckyJim

[Watchcry he/him]

Would an Edgedancer push his people to resist so strongly with such high casualties or retreat and try to save as many as possible? I still think he's a Dustbringer,  along with Navani.