Greater Shards

[stormbourne]

what name do you think the greater shards will be called we have harmony so far but what do you think the other 119 combinations could be called? i like discipline being odium+honour

[Karger he/him]

6 hours ago, stormbourne said:

discipline being odium+honour

That sounds more like Vengeance(Cultivation calls Dalinar child of Odium and Child of Honor based on his actions at The Rift).  The different Honor Cultivation Combinations are the Radiant spren.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Karger

[Elegy he/him]

Cultivation and Honor combined would probably be Radiance, yep.

[Truthless of Shinovar he/him]

Ambition and Dominion would be unstoppable, but I don’t know what their name would be

[Elegy he/him]

Ambition and Dominion combined would probably be ... Capitalism? 

And Ambition and Odium would be called Evil (very obvious winking).

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

Honor and Odium: Retribution 

Odium and Devotion: Passion

Ambition and Dominion: Conquest

Devotion and Dominion: Nobility 

Dominion and Odium: Tyranny

Ambition and Honor: Discipline

Autonomy and Dominion: Democracy 

Cultivation and Ruin: Transition

Devotion and Honor: Loyalty 

And wouldn’t it be other 239? 16 x 15 - 1?

Edited August 26, 2019 by Truthwatcher_17.5

[twenty second of the sun]

I don't think Devotion and Dominion would necessarily be called the shard of Nobility , We have seen on multiple occasions that nobility is rarely associated with a devotion the the people they govern . I would  say that dominion and devotion would be the shard Benevolence

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

10 minutes ago, twenty second of the sun said:

I don't think Devotion and Dominion would necessarily be called the shard of Nobility , We have seen on multiple occasions that nobility is rarely associated with a devotion the the people they govern . I would  say that dominion and devotion would be the shard Benevolence

My thought was benevolent rule. Not necessarily how nobles behave, but rather  the perfect and ideal for how they should behave.

Edit: to clarify a good leader is devoted to those he leads

Edited August 26, 2019 by Truthwatcher_17.5

[Fezzik]

2 hours ago, Truthwatcher_17.5 said:

wouldn’t it be other 239? 16 x 15 - 1?

If you include shards we don't know yet.

Here is an old thread with a spreadsheet and everything.

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/52846-combined-shards/

[stormbourne]

5 hours ago, Truthwatcher_17.5 said:

Honor and Odium: Retribution 

Odium and Devotion: Passion

Ambition and Dominion: Conquest

Devotion and Dominion: Nobility 

Dominion and Odium: Tyranny

Ambition and Honor: Discipline

Autonomy and Dominion: Democracy 

Cultivation and Ruin: Transition

Devotion and Honor: Loyalty 

And wouldn’t it be other 239? 16 x 15 - 1?

the the combination of greater shards that are a mix of two shards is 15+14+13.....+2+1=120-1 cause harmony

[+TheFoxQR]

Dominion + Honor -> Reign

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

9 hours ago, stormbourne said:

the the combination of greater shards that are a mix of two shards is 15+14+13.....+2+1=120-1 cause harmony

Right, I see it now

[twenty second of the sun]

what would be the difference between Honor + Dominion and Devotion + Dominion ? then 

 

and if you say reign then I will have to disagree.

[Philomath she/her]

I have a head cannon that Devotion+Dominion= Zeal. 

No one has speculated with Endowment yet. 

Endowment+Devotion= Grace or Condescension

Endowment+Honor=Loyalty (though I like that one better as Devotion+Honor) or maybe Promise

Endowment+Odium= Corruption, Infection, Virulence

Endowment+Autonomy= Freedom, Salvation, Rebellion

Endowment+Ambition= Glory? Pride? Ascension? Inspiration?

Cultivation is a little hard to combine. Everything I think of combining it with just basically becomes... Cultivation. So a few slightly less than serious Cultivation options:

Endowment+Cultivation= Teacher

Cultivation+Dominion=Imperialism

Cultivation+(hypothetical shard) Ingenuity= Industrialization, Mad Scientist

 

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

I know the reasoning behind Honor+Cultivation being Radiance but I don’t like it just because it doesn’t say anything about their intent. I only have rough ideas but maybe Promotion?

[Karger he/him]

On 8/25/2019 at 7:15 PM, Truthless of Shinovar said:

Ambition and Dominion would be unstoppable, but I don’t know what their name would be

Unstoppable duh.

 

12 minutes ago, Truthwatcher_17.5 said:

I know the reasoning behind Honor+Cultivation being Radiance but I don’t like it just because it doesn’t say anything about their intent. I only have rough ideas but maybe Promotion?

Communism(the literal rather then soviet sense of the word)?

Development(most positive human interactions are based on these two intents after all)?

Edited August 29, 2019 by Karger

[Vindo]

Im trying to think what would make Valor. Maybe Honor + Ambition? 

[Quantus he/him]

 

9 hours ago, Vindo said:

Im trying to think what would make Valor. Maybe Honor + Ambition? 

Hmm...  given the martial overtones of Valor, I think Valor=Honor + Devotion + Odium [+Ambition]  

Though I suppose it would all depend on the Host's interpretations of each.  

 

[stormbourne]

15 hours ago, Vindo said:

Im trying to think what would make Valor. Maybe Honor + Ambition? 

A knight is sworn to valour,

His heart knows only virtue,

His blade defends the helpless,

His might upholds the weak,

His word speaks only truth,

HIS WRATH UNDOES THE WICKED.

[Philomath she/her]

20 hours ago, Vindo said:

Im trying to think what would make Valor. Maybe Honor + Ambition? 

Maybe Honor+Preservation? I could see that as Courage or Valor or Protection. 

[Elegy he/him]

12 hours ago, Philomath said:

Maybe Honor+Preservation? I could see that as Courage or Valor or Protection. 

Courage is something associated with change/the willingness to inspire change in my book, so I'd rather associate it with Ruin and/or Cultivation.

I guess Dependability would make sense for Preservation and Honor - Stoneward style. But Protection also works!

[stormbourne]

what would foresight be?

[bxcnch he/him]

On 8/26/2019 at 2:12 AM, Truthwatcher_17.5 said:

Autonomy and Dominion: Democracy 

The way I understand Autonomy's intent I'd suggest Anarchy instead. In Anarchy, everybody is governing only themselves.

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

17 minutes ago, bxcnch said:

The way I understand Autonomy's intent I'd suggest Anarchy instead. In Anarchy, everybody is governing only themselves.

I like that, that’s much better!

[Calderis he/him]

Personally, I think that the shard names we know are flawed to begin with. 

As I've stated plainly elsewhere, I think that Unity is a reinterpretation of Honor. Because of this, I don't think judging what these combinations would accurately be called is possible. 

For instance, take a look at Harmony. Ruin is deatruction/decay/entropy/death. Preservation is stasis/stillness/persistence /maintenance. 

Ruin is inherently negative. Preservation is neutral. A balance between the two should not be Harmony. It should still be negative. 

Harmony is the way in which Sazed interprets and balances those two forces within himself, not so much what he truly is. 

Between the fact that I think the names of the Shards we know are just the interpretations of something deeper by the original Vessels, and that Harmony seems to be more a relational description than an accurate new intent, I think we're in for some very big surprises in the future that will upset what we think we know.