Karger he/him Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Ripheus23 said: Silence Montane is obviously stronger than the Lord Ruler, even if the Lord Ruler had Nightblood and ate the Yelig-nar crystal at the same time. This is a kind of silly question but how would TLR fair against a large number of shades? I don't think anything he can do will hurt them and I think he might be in trouble if his healing runs out.
navybrandt he/him Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 I would like to nominate Hoid as one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful non-shardic being in the Cosmere. The following are all taken from The Coppermind website He can lightweave. “I see. You do not yet understand the nature of lies. I had that trouble myself, long ago. The Shards here are very strict. You will have to see the truth, child, before you can expand upon it. Just as a man should know the law before he breaks it. ” —Hoid on Lightweaving to Shallan He can World-hop and is very realmatically aware. He's REALLY old. “Other men . . . other men, as they age, merely grow stranger. I fear that I am one of those. I am the bones of a foreign species left drying on the plain that was once, long ago, a sea. A curiosity, perhaps a reminder, that all has not always been as it is now. ” —Hoid on his age He can heal both body and soul. “I'd be surprised if that little knife of yours poses me any real threat, Kholin ” —Hoid to Jasnah on her Shardblade He has access to the spiritual attribute of Fortune which grants him a limited amount of foresight. Hoid has access to some manifestation of Investiture that allows him to manipulate the Spiritual attribute of Connection. Hoid has also gained access to Allomancy by burning a bead of lerasium stolen from the Well of Ascension. At some point, Hoid has gained access to enough Biochromatic Breath to bring him to at least the Second Heightening. Hoid has bonded a Cryptic that formerly belonged to Elhokar, which grants him access to Surgebinding. What other powers does he have that are unknown?
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 Rashek didn't use all of the metals. He is weaker than any other Fullborn that does, because Nicrosil.
Truthless of Shinovar he/him Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 This might just be me, but I think Vin could take out the Lord Ruler in a fight. Just a thought... But actually, I’m thinking Szeth with Nightblood would probably hold out against TLR for a while, and might even be able to beat him. If Szeth carries no metal, and has a bunch of stormlight, he wouldn’t have to worry about flying bits of metal, and if he used Nightblood at the right time, I doubt even gold compounding could heal TLR.
Pathfinder Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 12 hours ago, Karger said: This is a kind of silly question but how would TLR fair against a large number of shades? I don't think anything he can do will hurt them and I think he might be in trouble if his healing runs out. Aluminum can be used against shades just like silver man. Theoretically the Lord ruler could either get a really big piece of silver, suspend himself in the air, and buzzsaw the hunk of silver through all the shades with impunity. Also since shades are cognitive shadows, they are made of investiture, if the Lord ruler knew how to use chromium (which wasn't it listed on one of the metal plates? I am not sure), then he potentially could destroy them with a touch.
StanLemon Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 In terms of raw combat ability, TLR is like the single most powerful character in the Cosmere. Brandon even said that between him and the Susebron if they fought that TLR would almost certainly win. On top of that, while it's assumed he didn't have access to chromium and nicrosil, they were still technically possible to refine during the final empire. The only reason Vin beat him is because he wasn't taking the fight seriously, he got distracted, she figured out his Achilles heel AND she was directly fueled by the raw power of a Shard 1
Karger he/him Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 7 hours ago, Pathfinder said: Aluminum can be used against shades just like silver man. Theoretically the Lord ruler could either get a really big piece of silver, suspend himself in the air, and buzzsaw the hunk of silver through all the shades with impunity. Also since shades are cognitive shadows, they are made of investiture, if the Lord ruler knew how to use chromium (which wasn't it listed on one of the metal plates? I am not sure), then he potentially could destroy them with a touch. I believe silver is inert alomantically(same as aluminum).
Scion of the Mists Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 17 hours ago, Karger said: I believe silver is inert alomantically(same as aluminum). Silver has neither property of aluminum. The scene between Vin and Yomen in Hero of Ages chapter 54 confirms that: it has no Allomantic effect: Quote Silver. Useless, unburnable silver. Like lead, it was one of the metals that provided no Allomantic powers at all. and it can be Pushed/Pulled: Quote Vin eyed the earring. Her fingers itched to grab it, if only to feel metal between her fingers. If she'd had steel, she could have Pushed on the earring, using it as a weapon. 1
Pathfinder Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 17 hours ago, Karger said: I believe silver is inert alomantically(same as aluminum). Pretty much what Scion of the Mists said. You can't burn it to have a power, but you can treat it as any other metal with your abilities. So the lord ruler could use it like a buzzsaw through hordes of shades.
Karger he/him Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 5 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said: Vin eyed the earring. Her fingers itched to grab it, if only to feel metal between her fingers. If she'd had steel, she could have Pushed on the earring, using it as a weapon. Her earring is mostly bronze.
Dragon Reborn he/him Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 He could be one of the most powerful, but Brandon has said Szeth with Nightblood is one of the most terrifying things in the Cosmere.
Wander89 he/him Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Dragon reborn said: He could be one of the most powerful, but Brandon has said Szeth with Nightblood is one of the most terrifying things in the Cosmere. Yeah, I'd say that's pretty terrifying but may also make for some intriguing conversation. Edited June 23, 2019 by Wander89
cometaryorbit Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 On 6/18/2019 at 6:12 PM, Karger said: I am not sure that he sleeps for more then a few seconds at a time but I see your point. Actually... does TLR sleep at all? Can you Feruchemically tap while asleep? He might have been compounding bronze to stay awake continuously for the last 950 years or whatever... I imagine he figured out a way to tap his metalminds while asleep, like burning pewter when unconscious, but I don't know... Allomancy seems more "instinctive" than Feruchemy, so I'm not sure if that is possible. On the original question ...Depends what you mean by "most powerful". - In raw quantity of Investiture, Susebron and the Stormfather (and presumably the Nightwatcher) probably win. But these are very limited on what they can do with it (even after Susebron gets his tongue, Awakening is fairly limited compared to a Mistborn or Feruchemist's power-set, much less both combined). - In terms of 'who would win in a fight'... Without knowing his weakness, TLR pretty much automatically wins, since with his metalminds in he basically can't be hurt in any lasting way. Nightblood might kill him, if he didn't know it could kill him and just let himself get hit (like he did with a spear in the city square), or if the wielder was comparably fast (feruchemical steel). Maybe... I doubt Nightblood would be immediately lethal to him, since we know Feruchemical gold can heal Shardblade wounds. Nightblood's more powerful than a normal Shardblade, but I think it would probably be more "burns up his healing reserves much faster" rather than "one hit kill". Knowing his weakness, there are various things that could work (ripping them out physically with a huge surge of Feruchemical Speed, super-charged Steel or Iron Allomancy or Gravitation ... Vin with mist-burning, someone with the Bands of Mourning, the Windrunner or Skybreaker Heralds or maybe a really advanced Knight of those Orders - we haven't seen what kind of powers the Fifth Ideal gives you yet...) The wild card here, though, is total dismemberment. Even if someone doesn't know his weakness, if they know he's ridiculously hard to kill, a "massive overkill" approach seems pretty logical - and if TLR's metalminds are separated from him, he dies. So if his body was completely blown to bits, or both arms torn off (assuming the metalminds have to have a connection to the brain), he should die... though with Pewter Allomancy, possibly Duralumin-surged, that would be hard.
cometaryorbit Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 On 6/19/2019 at 9:51 PM, Karger said: This is a kind of silly question but how would TLR fair against a large number of shades? I don't think anything he can do will hurt them and I think he might be in trouble if his healing runs out. I don't know. I wouldn't necessarily assume none of his powers would affect them - we just haven't seen those interactions, and don't know enough about either the nature of Shades (they're cognitive shadows, but seem to be more physical than, say, Kelsier-shadow) or some of the more esoteric allomantic/feruchemical powers used at really high levels. If he knew what they were, he'd just avoid them (with compounded speed) until he could grab some silver, then kill them (I have the mental image of TLR destroying shades with silverware...). Some of the other allomantic and feruchemical powers might conceivably affect cognitive shadows, especially used at really high levels; we just don't know. (Could emotional Allomancy do something - doesn't it work through the cognitive realm?) I also don't think we know which non-common-knowledge metals TLR had access to. (If TLR compounded ridiculous amounts of luck, would a silver object just coincidentally come to hand, even if TLR didn't know that was what he needed? What happens if you Leech a Shade - could you just erase the investiture making it up?) I wonder if that bit about duralumin + atium pulling you into the Spiritual Realm could help... probably not...
Karger he/him Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 4 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: If he knew what they were, he'd just avoid them (with compounded speed) until he could grab some silver, then kill them (I have the mental image of TLR destroying shades with silverware...). Compounded speed would likely attract even more shades.
Nnatel she/her Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 23.06.2019 at 11:44 AM, cometaryorbit said: I doubt Nightblood would be immediately lethal to him, since we know Feruchemical gold can heal Shardblade wounds. Nightblood's more powerful than a normal Shardblade, but I think it would probably be more "burns up his healing reserves much faster" rather than "one hit kill". I might be wrong but I believe Nightblood would just start sucking his Investiture: the metals he is burning but also all he has stored in his metalminds. It would take longer than compared to a person with 'normal' amount of Investiture but it'd kill him sooner or later (and I'm not even talking about his age).
Karger he/him Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Nnatel said: I might be wrong but I believe Nightblood would just start sucking his Investiture: the metals he is burning but also all he has stored in his metalminds. It would take longer than compared to a person with 'normal' amount of Investiture but it'd kill him sooner or later (and I'm not even talking about his age). I kind of wish Sezeth had killed Yalignar just so we could see what happens when a heavily invested opponent is hit with Nightblood.
Pathfinder Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/23/2019 at 5:44 AM, cometaryorbit said: Actually... does TLR sleep at all? Can you Feruchemically tap while asleep? He might have been compounding bronze to stay awake continuously for the last 950 years or whatever... I imagine he figured out a way to tap his metalminds while asleep, like burning pewter when unconscious, but I don't know... Allomancy seems more "instinctive" than Feruchemy, so I'm not sure if that is possible. As you said, the Lord Ruler could theoretically just compound wakeness and never sleep, though Brandon has said sleeping carries other necessities other than just rest. Memory storage. Though one could say copper would handle that. I would need to dig, but I recall a WoB that said the only feruchemical ability you could store while sleeping is wakefullness, and even then because you were storing, you do not get a restful sleep, so you would still need to sleep after storing sleep lol. I will see if I can dig the WoB up
cometaryorbit Posted June 25, 2019 Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Pathfinder said: I would need to dig, but I recall a WoB that said the only feruchemical ability you could store while sleeping is wakefullness That's stated in Well of Ascension, where Sazed is storing up attributes in preparation for the attack on Luthadel. (After they decide Straff is going to let the koloss attack first.) On 6/23/2019 at 9:16 AM, Karger said: Compounded speed would likely attract even more shades. True, but at the level Steel Compounding can get you to, it wouldn't matter, if he knew about silver. Especially with the other powers TLR has. He could evade them (smashing through walls etc if he did get cornered) until he grabbed some silver object. Once he had that, he could easily destroy an arbitrarily large number of shades (just running/steeljumping around and using Allomantic iron/Steel to shoot the silver through all the shades). It would be really, really hard for them to hurt him meaningfully. Actually making contact with him would be incredibly hard, and a shade's touch isn't instantaneous death even to a normal human who isn't tapping gold. I'd imagine TLR could sit there forever with a shade withering him and never feel any effects, as long as he ate a few gold coins once in a while to fill up his goldminds. 17 hours ago, Nnatel said: I might be wrong but I believe Nightblood would just start sucking his Investiture: the metals he is burning but also all he has stored in his metalminds. It would take longer than compared to a person with 'normal' amount of Investiture but it'd kill him sooner or later (and I'm not even talking about his age). I think Nightblood eats its wielder's Investiture, but just does massive damage on all three realms to whatever it hits (like Shardblade cutting massively enhanced). Even if it did that, though, it wouldn't kill TLR until he ran out of metals to burn, and I think he'd end the fight much sooner than that. Edited June 25, 2019 by cometaryorbit replying to other post
Scion of the Mists Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 On 6/21/2019 at 5:39 PM, Karger said: Her earring is mostly bronze. Do you have a source for "mostly"? I don't recall them specifying the ratio. Regardless, the outside of the earring is silver. If silver functioned as aluminum, it wouldn't matter what was on the inside - it would shield it. Also from Hero of Ages chapter 54: Quote "Which is why," Yomen continued, "I am so curious as to why you would bother with an ornament such as this. I have had it tested. Silver on the outside, bronze on the inside. Why those metals? One useless to Allomancers, the other granting what is considered the weakest of Allomantic powers.
Karger he/him Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 46 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said: Do you have a source for "mostly"? I don't recall them specifying the ratio. When it comes from pushing or pulling I think any part bronze would do the trick on a cheaply made earing with outside breaking off(which happens especially with silver witch tarnishes rapidly). However I believe that Yomen tested the ratio.
Scion of the Mists Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Karger said: When it comes from pushing or pulling I think any part bronze would do the trick on a cheaply made earing with outside breaking off(which happens especially with silver witch tarnishes rapidly). However I believe that Yomen tested the ratio. Yomen did test the earring (as he revealed in the quote I posted), but said nothing about the ratio between the metals. Also, even if the earring was mostly bronze (which is not specified in the books) and a portion of the outer silver was worn away (which is also not specified), it wouldn't have mattered because aluminum shielding works as a field: Quote Questioner Is aluminum shielding from emotional Allomancy strictly line of sight? So, can someone in the basement bypass somebody’s aluminum hat on the first floor Brandon Sanderson No, they could not. You just put enough aluminum there and it disrupts. Questioner So it disrupts like a field. Brandon Sanderson Yep. Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015) P.s. We're pretty far off topic at this point. Why don't you make a new topic for your theory? Edited June 26, 2019 by Scion of the Mists
not an Evil Librarian Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 TLR is not the most powerful non-shard. That title belongs to Stick.
aneonfoxtribute Posted June 30, 2019 Author Posted June 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, not an Evil Librarian said: TLR is not the most powerful non-shard. That title belongs to Stick. Damnation, you're right! How could I forget about the all-powerful, unwavering determination of Stick, so powerful that none can alter it! You, sir, have opened my eyes!
not an Evil Librarian Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 Just now, aneonfoxtribute said: Damnation, you're right! How could I forget about the all-powerful, unwavering determination of Stick, so powerful that none can alter it! You, sir, have opened my eyes!
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