Help me to understand (Recreance)

[Ammanas]

Apologies if this has been discussed before but I never understood why, the people of Roshar, were so devastated by the idea of humans being the invaders. It didn't seem to bother the majority of the Spanish conquistadors as they took the land away from the original inhabitants of the Americas. Nor the United States as they pursued Manifest Destiny. Or the Jews as they claimed the Holy Land after the Exodus in Egypt. I could go on and on. All of the above examples were pursued for Gold, God, or Glory. The salvation of the human race would provide a far more powerful motivator I imagine.I'm sure there were some individuals they disagreed with their civilization, as they conquered, but by and large the majority didn't.

The humans of Roshars reaction to their history doesn't seem to jive with what I believe of human psychology and history on Earth. Is there something I'm not understanding? Why would the people of Roshar react so negatively to the news of events that happened so long ago? I'm not even sure why the information was covered up to begin with. Have out in the open with the rulers and church leaders putting their own spin on it, to show their cause was righteous and from God.

[+Invocation]

They thought they were defending themselves from conflict by demons that had invaded them. Finding out that you are the invader after millenia of being told you're in the right, that the slaughter you've visited upon your enemies was righteous and was you defending your people would be devastating. On top of that, Honor himself was raving. He told them that they'd caused the destruction of their last world and, unlike the support he gave with the last generations of Radiants, he told them they'd do the same. They thought they were avenging the loss of their home and defending themselves, not that they were the ones who destroyed their old home and invaded another.

[Karger he/him]

Also they were afraid that their powers could be used to destroy Roshar.  Also the Radiants as a group practiced acting morally constantly even if they had different ideas about what that meant.  These were super conscientious people.

[Calderis he/him]

You're absolutely right @Ammanas. The recreance, as presented, doesn't add up. Which is why I think it's more complicated than that.

They weren't the first to discover their history. It's made clear in the book that it had happened before and Honor then worked to ensure that they held fast and were not responsible for the actions of their predecessors. 

This time though, Honor was Dying and raved about their previously destroyed world and that they would inevitably do the same to Roshar... After which they lobotomized what appeared to be an entire species. 

I think it was a combination of many factors in rapid succession, which lead to a breaking point. 

I personally also think that this was an action that their spren pushed for. At minimum the spren were complicit, because spren have the ability to break the bond and there is absolutely no way a coordinated effort of this magnitude could have been kept secret from them. 

So in my head, you find out that your people have destroyed one world, are told by your God that you are going to do the same to the one you call home. Then you lobotomize an entire species and your best friend in the world argues that these powers need to be stopped. 

I'd have a tough time not feeling like I was a part of a massive problem. 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Calderis

[Ammanas]

I had a long post going about how I had some issues with the previous two responses, but @Calderis had a thoughtful post that makes more sense to me. Thank you.

[MiffersBird]

I am just rereading Oathbringer for the first time and picked up on something I missed.

When Dalinar takes Navani and Jasnah to the Recreance vision Jasnah mentions something about the "False desolation" that the church said happened as all the Voidbringers hadn't quite been defeated.  She speculates that this would have happened before Parshmen lost their songs (although obviously she doesn't put it like this).  

I agree that simply finding out the truth of the invasion isn't enough but maybe finding that out couple with the enslavement of the Parshmen was enough.

I am sure this has been speculated on before but I am brand new to the community for Stormlight and have just read this part before I looked on this forum.

[ScavellTane]

I've been contemplating that perhaps all the Singers rejected their forms at the Recreance and the Parshendi survived because they were far way from BAMs influence/reach.

Edited June 3, 2019 by ScavellTane

[Wintersu]

15 hours ago, MiffersBird said:

I am just rereading Oathbringer for the first time and picked up on something I missed.

When Dalinar takes Navani and Jasnah to the Recreance vision Jasnah mentions something about the "False desolation" that the church said happened as all the Voidbringers hadn't quite been defeated.  She speculates that this would have happened before Parshmen lost their songs (although obviously she doesn't put it like this).  

I agree that simply finding out the truth of the invasion isn't enough but maybe finding that out couple with the enslavement of the Parshmen was enough.

I am sure this has been speculated on before but I am brand new to the community for Stormlight and have just read this part before I looked on this forum.

Yes, there is definitely more to the Recreance. I think it’s possible that the Recreance happened as a combination of three events. The two mentioned, Honor raving about the end of the world and the enslavement of the Parsh, but also it’s possible the destruction of Stormseat happened then as well. 

I have no proof of when Stormseat was destroyed, but if it happened then it would make sense as another straw on the camels back

[Calderis he/him]

23 minutes ago, Wintersu said:

Yes, there is definitely more to the Recreance. I think it’s possible that the Recreance happened as a combination of three events. The two mentioned, Honor raving about the end of the world and the enslavement of the Parsh, but also it’s possible the destruction of Stormseat happened then as well. 

I have no proof of when Stormseat was destroyed, but if it happened then it would make sense as another straw on the camels back

I didn’t list it in my explanation, because I don't think that it did happen at that time, but I still think that it was relevant as an example of the destruction of which they were capable. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Calderis

[Lidolas he/him]

I agree that something isn't adding up.  I don't see the 'we were the original invaders' reveal to be that upsetting.  Out of all of Mr. T's leaks to the coalition that seemed to be the least worrisome. I'm a US citizen, with some ancestors that come over on the Mayflower.  While I have felt sympathy for the suffering of the natives of this land, I have never felt any guilt over my lot in life.  I have a hard time wrapping my head around the psychology presented in Oathbringer.  I know there's more to it with the destruction of Ashyn and such, but it still seems weak to me.  

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

Yeah, I'll bet you an emerald broam that there's more to it than we've been told.

[twenty second of the sun]

1 minute ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Yeah, I'll bet you an emerald broam that there's more to it than we've been told.

That much for everything cosmere is obvious .

What I don't understand is why people don't understand that what the Knights radiants are being told that they have done is enough to make them quit in fear of doing it again.