Tiberius Gracchus Posted May 2, 2019 Report Share Posted May 2, 2019 During Taravangian's interlude in WoR he first mentions a former ardent named Dova who discovered the Diagram and forced Taravangian to either assassinate her or induct her. He inducts her by the time of the interlude she is the head of the Silent Gatherer's, Taravangian's Death Rattle factory workers. At the end of OB when Taravangian tells Dalinar that he believes that Dova is actually Bettar the Herald of the Elsecallers. This frustrates me, as I am a subscriber to the well-supported theory that all of the Heralds are currently inversions of the ideals they represent. (ex. Ash the artist destroying art, Nale the lawman a serial murderer, Jezrian the leader a wretched drunk) However leading the Silent Gatherers isn't really an inversion of what we understand Battar to represent. Jasnah, our only Elsecaller and presumably all Elsecaller's and their patron, are a pragmatic group dedicated to using knowledge to preserve the long term survival of the species no matter the short term cost. Of all of the Radiants that we have seen, Jasnah seems the most likely to recognize the brutal necessity of the Silent Gatherers. However, the actions of the Silent Gatherers is a direct inversion of what we understand of the Herald Vedel. Vedel is supposed to be loving, healing and is associated with surgeons. Her order of Radiants, the Edgedancers, were most concerned with the welfare of the lowliest people in society, specifically the "forgotten" and "ignored", the exact group that the Silent Gatherers exploit. (in the guise of healers) The fact that Taravangian merely suspects that Dova is Battar, instead of outright confirming it, leaves open the possibility that he is correct that she is a Herald but is misguided about which one. It seems pretty reasonable to me for Taravangian to mistake one female Herald for another as modern rosharans do not seem to have a clear understanding of what the Heralds looked like, and I am not sure he knows the full extent of the Herald's insanity. Tib 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Gracchus Posted May 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2019 Whoops, did not intend to post this twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathrangking Posted May 3, 2019 Report Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) Battar's divine attributes are Wisdom and Care. I'd say being a member of the silent gatherer's runs counter to these. Edited May 3, 2019 by Nathrangking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted May 3, 2019 Report Share Posted May 3, 2019 We only have T's word that Dova was actually Battar, and that she's a Herald. He might be lying about it to Dalinar to disguise the knowledge he got from the Diagram. I personally think Vedel is the one hanging around T, and that he doesn't know it. And that she is one of the Silent Gatherers, because what would be a better inverse of Loving and Healing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Gracchus Posted May 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Nathrangking said: Battar's divine attributes are Wisdom and Care. I'd say being a member of the silent gatherer's runs counter to these. I would be fine with the idea of Battar being associated with the Diagram. It is the the specifically the Silent Gatherer's perversion of the role of a Surgeon/Healer that evokes Vedel so strongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted May 3, 2019 Report Share Posted May 3, 2019 40 minutes ago, Tiberius Gracchus said: I would be fine with the idea of Battar being associated with the Diagram. It is the the specifically the Silent Gatherer's perversion of the role of a Surgeon/Healer that evokes Vedel so strongly. She could be manipulating T instead of counseling him. I would like to direct you to Miraize's line "the old fool sows chaos but... he has no idea" implying Mr T is actually just causing damage as apposed to realy accomplishing anything of substance. This would fit well with the inversion theory. A wise careful counselor manipulating a well intentiond individual into reckless behavior sounds perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Gracchus Posted May 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2019 28 minutes ago, Karger said: She could be manipulating T instead of counseling him. I would like to direct you to Miraize's line "the old fool sows chaos but... he has no idea" implying Mr T is actually just causing damage as apposed to realy accomplishing anything of substance. This would fit well with the inversion theory. A wise careful counselor manipulating a well intentiond individual into reckless behavior sounds perfect. I don't know. Dova was not one of the original members of the Diagram and she is responsible for the discreet collection of Death Rattles, it doesn't seem like she has all that much influence over the direction of the Diagram as a whole. The most damage she should do is fabricate some Death Rattles or maybe wildly misinterpret it. If someone was infiltrating the Diagram to manipulate them they would be someone more directly involved like Adrotagia or Graves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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