Urithiru an Oathgate between Roshar/Cosmere

[StormingAdam]

So I just recently started reading Sanderson and I am beyond excited after reading the first three Stormlight Books. I was just looking at some of the artwork of Urithiru and was curious if anyone had come to the same conclusion of this possibility.

Is it possible that Urithiru itself is an Oathgate that is somehow connected to another planet in the Cosmere, if not multiple planets? We don’t get an explanation on how humans came to Roshar, so this seemed like the most possible choice for me... unless Wit has a spaceship lol

 

First post here so hopefully not breaking any rules. Hello, everyone!

[Pathfinder]

22 minutes ago, StormingAdam said:

So I just recently started reading Sanderson and I am beyond excited after reading the first three Stormlight Books. I was just looking at some of the artwork of Urithiru and was curious if anyone had come to the same conclusion of this possibility.

Is it possible that Urithiru itself is an Oathgate that is somehow connected to another planet in the Cosmere, if not multiple planets? We don’t get an explanation on how humans came to Roshar, so this seemed like the most possible choice for me... unless Wit has a spaceship lol

 

First post here so hopefully not breaking any rules. Hello, everyone!

We know Urithiru is not a spaceship, and we know a spaceship was not used to travel from Ashyn to Roshar during Ashyn's destruction. Brandon has confirmed the means used was a lot like the Oathgates but he is still trying to work out the canon on how exactly that works. He would like it to involve the spiritual realm, but it may run into some continuity or physics based issues. 

[StormingAdam]

8 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

We know Urithiru is not a spaceship, and we know a spaceship was not used to travel from Ashyn to Roshar during Ashyn's destruction. Brandon has confirmed the means used was a lot like the Oathgates but he is still trying to work out the canon on how exactly that works. He would like it to involve the spiritual realm, but it may run into some continuity or physics based issues. 

Thanks for the reply!

 

I wasnt implying Urithiru was a spaceship it was just a joke about Wit having a spaceship. 

 

My thought was Urithiru itself is an interplanetary Oathgate. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by StormingAdam

[Pathfinder]

3 minutes ago, StormingAdam said:

Thanks for the reply!

 

I wasnt implying Urithiru was a spaceship it was just a joke about Wit having a spaceship. 

 

My thought was Urithiru itself is an interplanetary Oathgate. 

No problem. Sorry my intention was just to confirm some of your thoughts, and give you more information to build on your theory. So Urithiru could very well somehow be an oathgate to another planet considering Brandon has confirmed it was an oathgate like means that got them there. 

[Ethan_sedai]

Welcome to the Shard! Here, have a cookie!

Edited April 9, 2019 by Ethan_Sedai

[StormingAdam]

34 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

No problem. Sorry my intention was just to confirm some of your thoughts, and give you more information to build on your theory. So Urithiru could very well somehow be an oathgate to another planet considering Brandon has confirmed it was an oathgate like means that got them there. 

No worries! I figured this was a pretty common theory, but regardless I love the fantasy/science fiction aspect being combined. 

 

I do have another question. Considering I started out of order by reading the Stormlight books first. How do you think I should approach the other books and series?  I know I should have read Mistborn already and I’ve heard that Warbreaker is a sort of Prolouge to Stormlight. Thanks for the help 

[Elegy]

The reading order of the series is not really important. Brandon intentionally wrote them to stand on their own. I definitely recommend getting to Mistborn because of how that series (just like Stormlight) touches on a lot of underlying principles that are relevant for the cosmere as a whole. Warbreaker is interesting as a backstory to Stormlight side-characters, but it's a stand-alone story. He wrote it as sort of a prequel, but we didn't know that for half a decade or so. I wouldn't call it a prologue, but it's connected.

I definitely recommend checking out the short story collection Arcanum Unbounded because it showcases the versatility of the cosmere very well and gives a good overview. On principle though, it isn't really important which road you take.

[+Invocation]

21 minutes ago, StormingAdam said:

I do have another question. Considering I started out of order by reading the Stormlight books first. How do you think I should approach the other books and series?  I know I should have read Mistborn already and I’ve heard that Warbreaker is a sort of Prolouge to Stormlight. Thanks for the help 

Reading order doesn't really matter. Just read what you want to read next, but after you've read it all, be sure to go back and read Stormlight again for a few fun surprises.

[StormingAdam]

Awesome thanks so much. Really excited about all of this. 

 

Now we just need book 4!

 

Is it possible that Odium, being the god of the first humans that came to Roshar, somehow brought them through the spiritual realm and onto Roshar? Similar to Dalinar opening a path  which allowed Adolin, Shallan and Kaladin to cross over from Shadesmar to Thaylen City?

[Elegy]

It's very likely. There's this WOB that was referenced by Pathfinder above:

 

Quote

 

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Did humans come to Roshar through Shadesmar?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

It is technology or magic closer to how the Oathgates work. But it was like that. It's not canon but right now that's what I have. It's not canon because there are certain things I have to work out before that can work...

By the way I'll just say to the tape recording that I haven't canonized, like for instance if they traveled to Shadesmar to get to Shinovar from Ashyn. Right now I have that not being via Shadesmar, but the mechanics of that might not work out, and I might have to default to Shadesmar. So there's certain things, you'll see, where I say, "This isn't the canon answer, it's where I have things right now."

Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW]

So Urithiru might end up being a spaceship after all.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

It's not that. Right now I have them using something closer to Oathgating, but it opens up a huge can of worms, when I'm not requiring direct-- When I'm sending through Spiritual Realm it opens up cans of worms, and I have to just make sure the mechanics on that are tight before I do it.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

 

We know that the humans came with Odium, but not if the technology/magic to travel to other worlds was brought by him. But it will be close ot "Oathgating", assuming he figures out a way to make it work. If he doesn't, well he will probably have to change it to have happened through Shadesmar instead, given that that's the more usual way of transitioning from one world to another. That, however, would mean that they would need a perpendicularity on Ashyn to get inside Shadesmar. The most likely way for a perpendicularity to form on Ashyn would be Odium Investing (since Ashyn doesn't have a Shard), but as far as we know, Odium didn't ever want to Invest in any planet:

Quote

 

Questioner

Did Odium originally have a planet he was Invested in?

Brandon Sanderson

Odium's plan always involved not getting stuck on one

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

 

That said, we have seen an Oathgate being used for entering Shadesmar, so there might be another way that Odium could be capable of. Soo, a lot of stuff is open, we'll have to wait and see. I definitely like the idea of Urithiru functioning as a giant Oathgate that connects Roshar with Ashyn!

Edited April 9, 2019 by Elegy

[StormingAdam]

I love cookies! 

 

2 hours ago, Elegy said:

It's very likely. There's this WOB that was referenced by Pathfinder above:

 

We know that the humans came with Odium, but not if the technology/magic to travel to other worlds was brought by him. But it will be close ot "Oathgating", assuming he figures out a way to make it work. If he doesn't, well he will probably have to change it to have happened through Shadesmar instead, given that that's the more usual way of transitioning from one world to another. That, however, would mean that they would need a perpendicularity on Ashyn to get inside Shadesmar. The most likely way for a perpendicularity to form on Ashyn would be Odium Investing (since Ashyn doesn't have a Shard), but as far as we know, Odium didn't ever want to Invest in any planet:

That said, we have seen an Oathgate being used for entering Shadesmar, so there might be another way that Odium could be capable of. Soo, a lot of stuff is open, we'll have to wait and see. I definitely like the idea of Urithiru functioning as a giant Oathgate that connects Roshar with Ashyn!

Great info thank u!

and I absolutely love the idea of Urithiru being centered around the original portal that brought man to Roshar. Can’t wait to find this stuff out down the road.  

[Scion of the Mists]

@Emperor Stick Can we keep the discussion on topic?  @StormingAdam made this thread to discuss Urithiru, not cookies.  

 

18 hours ago, Elegy said:

We know that the humans came with Odium

Actually, they did not.  Despite the singers referring to Odium as the human's god, Brandon has said that it was more that "The humans gave him more of an ear" and that "he did kinda come along with them," which doesn't really sound like he actively warped them to Roshar.  I think it's more that he engineered the cataclysm on Ashyn (behind the scenes) to force the humans to relocate to Roshar, where he worked (also behind the scenes) to incite the conflict between them and the singers.  

[Elegy]

I don't really see the "they did not" in the "he did kinda come along with them", although it obviously seems to be way more of a gray area than I previously thought. He obviously was around though. Also, I mentioned it in another thread just a couple of minutes ago so I thought I'd bring it up, I kinda hope Odium is not responsible for the catastrophe on Ashyn. I'd like the humans on there to have screwed up all by themselves.

Edit: There's also this passage in Oathbringer, chapter 111:

Quote

Well were they named Voidbringers, for they brought the void. The empty pit that sucks in emotion. A new god. Their god.

That makes it sound like they brought him with them right away. It could be allegorical, but it sure makes it sound that way.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Elegy

[Scion of the Mists]

44 minutes ago, Elegy said:

I don't really see the "they did not" in the "he did kinda come along with them", although it obviously seems to be way more of a gray area than I previously thought. He obviously was around though. Also, I mentioned it in another thread just a couple of minutes ago so I thought I'd bring it up, I kinda hope Odium is not responsible for the catastrophe on Ashyn. I'd like the humans on there to have screwed up all by themselves.

Edit: There's also this passage in Oathbringer, chapter 111:

Quote

Well were they named Voidbringers, for they brought the void. The empty pit that sucks in emotion. A new god. Their god.

That makes it sound like they brought him with them right away. It could be allegorical, but it sure makes it sound that way.

 

It's certainly somewhat vague, but the way that Brandon phrases "would have considered," "it wasn't like they necessarily brought him," and "he did kinda come along with them" make me think that the relationship between the humans and Odium was much less direct than is implied in Oathbringer.  For example, I don't think that Ashynites had any sort of agreement with Odium.  I think there might be another WoB floating around about their relationship, but I'm not able to find it right now.  

Quote

Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

What was the order of the Shards coming to Roshar and changing allegiances? Did Humans come with Odium?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

So... you're talking about on Roshar specifically? So, Odium had visited Roshar. The humans gave him more of an ear... The Dawnsingers would have considered him the god of the people who had come, but-- I mean, it wasn't like they necessarily brought him. He was capable of getting around before that. I mean, he did kinda come along with them, he was instrumental in what happened there.

Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

Okay, but he was separate, and after Honor and Cultivation had really settled there?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, he was after Honor and Cultivation had settled.

Oathbringer Glasgow signing (Dec. 2, 2017)

[Elegy]

Seems I missed that WOB! That's interesting. Seems a bit like a weird choice of him to make the book imply it and then relativize it like that but ok.

[Lidolas]

45 minutes ago, Elegy said:

Seems I missed that WOB! That's interesting. Seems a bit like a weird choice of him to make the book imply it and then relativize it like that but ok.

I imagine from the Singer's point of view that Odium and the humans came together just because of the timing.

[Calderis]

Humans did not come "with" Odium. 

He incited the the incident that destroyed Ashyn, and came to Roshar at the same time... But the singer/Fused position that he was their God is debatable. 

Quote

Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

What was the order of the Shards coming to Roshar and changing allegiances? Did Humans come with Odium?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

So... you're talking about on Roshar specifically? So, Odium had visited Roshar. The humans gave him more of an ear... The Dawnsingers would have considered him the god of the people who had come, but-- I mean, it wasn't like they necessarily brought him. He was capable of getting around before that. I mean, he did kinda come along with them, he was instrumental in what happened there.

Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

Okay, but he was separate, and after Honor and Cultivation had really settled there?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, he was after Honor and Cultivation had settled.

Oathbringer Glasgow signing (Dec. 2, 2017)

 

[Elegy]

Scion linked that WOB, but it was the other one he quoted that cleared things up for me. (Like hinted above, I feel he tackled that topic in a counterintuitive way in OB.)

3 minutes ago, Calderis said:

He incited the the incident that destroyed Ashyn

He did? Is there a source for that?

[Calderis]

2 hours ago, Elegy said:

He did? Is there a source for that?

It's in the WoB I quoted. 

"he did kinda come along with them, he was instrumental in what happened there." 

[SwordNimiForPresident]

@StormingAdam Just a bit of advice, read the main stories before reading their counterparts in Arcanum Unbounded. Reading Mistborn: A Secret History would spoil the entire plot of Era 1.

[Elegy]

5 minutes ago, Calderis said:

It's in the WoB I quoted. 

"he did kinda come along with them, he was instrumental in what happened there." 

Doesn't there refer to Roshar (e.g. the First Desolations)? Ashyn isn't mentioned once in the WOB, so it doesn't feel like that's the referent.

3 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

@StormingAdam Just a bit of advice, read the main stories before reading their counterparts in Arcanum Unbounded. Reading Mistborn: A Secret History would spoil the entire plot of Era 1.

There are spoiler warnings in the book, as in "includes minor/major spoilers for ...", so as long as you take those to heart, it's all good.

[Calderis]

26 minutes ago, Elegy said:

Doesn't there refer to Roshar (e.g. the First Desolations)? Ashyn isn't mentioned once in the WOB, so it doesn't feel like that's the referent.

Directly following the "he did kinda come with them" makes me believe that referring to Ashyn in context. It's talking about the timing of his arrival on Roshar, which should predate the Desolations. 

[StormingAdam]

On 4/11/2019 at 6:46 AM, SwordNimiForPresident said:

@StormingAdam Just a bit of advice, read the main stories before reading their counterparts in Arcanum Unbounded. Reading Mistborn: A Secret History would spoil the entire plot of Era 1.

 

Thanks for the heads up!

I’m excited for Mistborn, but understand that many people give it a lower rating than Stormlight. Also, really wanting to read Warbreaker and it seems like a lot of people like Elantris quite a bit. 

 

 

 

Considering some of the things you guys have quoted Brandon as saying, paired along with the minor hints we’ve gotten in Book 3 about Urithiru, it really seems like he doesn’t exactly have everything figured out just yet. 

 

 I seem to remember someone speaking about caverns below Urithiru in the book. It seems like this could be really important in some way,  but I’m not sure if it needs to be connected to the Oathgate theory. 

[+Invocation]

48 minutes ago, StormingAdam said:

Considering some of the things you guys have quoted Brandon as saying, paired along with the minor hints we’ve gotten in Book 3 about Urithiru, it really seems like he doesn’t exactly have everything figured out just yet. 

It's less like he doesn't have it figured out (he goes very in-depth with his planning), but more that we're still missing pieces to put it together properly, which seems very likely.

[Calderis]

Eh. Some of it he has figured out how he wants it, but he has his team working on it to make sure the mechanics are consistent. 

If they aren't, he'll change his plan to a mechanic that is and won't later the story. 

It's happened before... 

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

You know the sparring guards, for the Shardblade training, the guards they put on the Shardblades. Are they made of aluminum?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

So, they are not. Peter will not let me make them made out of aluminum. He's my continuity editor, he keeps me honest. I tried to get them to be aluminum, but there are reasons why they can't be. So we had to make them their own weird little thing, unfortunately. But you could make a sheath out of aluminum for a Shardblade that would work.

He keeps me honest, so it's good, but I did try to fit them in that way.

Oathbringer Edinburgh signing (Dec. 2, 2017)

Thank you, Peter.