worldbuilding Fantasy World planning

[+ZincAboutIt she/her]

Just now, Arky-boi said:

The castle part is changeable.

The man was changed physically with ritual magic, then he became bestial from belief.

Would you be RPing as this character, or is he just around to build the world? If the latter, I would be fine to sign off on this, though I'm not the ritual expert so I can't say whether or not the ritual changes are accurate. If you want to play this character I obviously want to know more about him. But it's a good Natural magic progression from legend to reality!

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

Hey! If the castle had secret passages, traps, secret staircases, and creepy pictures, then it being alive might actually be a believable addition to the story. Though, if you want people to believe it, make the story have something someone needs to do. Either there's a way to break this curse, the apple has powerful magic that people would want, or the beast kills people in the villages near his home every year or so. Then more people would actually believe it, and it could gain the attention if the ASL.

[MacThorstenson he/him]

The magician would need to be affected by natural magic in some way to have the power to do that I think. 

Ritual magic isn’t exactly something that can be used offensively, any magicians with offensive magic capabilities would have to use natural magic to a certain extent. 

I think that that could definitely work if the magician was a famed enchanter who cursed the king. 

[kenod]

Just now, MacThorstenson said:

The magician would need to be affected by natural magic in some way to have the power to do that I think. 

Ritual magic isn’t exactly something that can be used offensively, any magicians with offensive magic capabilities would have to use natural magic to a certain extent. 

I think that that could definitely work if the magician was a famed enchanter who cursed the king. 

Depends, there are a bunch of tricks for offensive usage, I've worked out a few myself, though they either require a lot of training or are fairly limited in flexibility.

[MacThorstenson he/him]

1 minute ago, kenod said:

Depends, there are a bunch of tricks for offensive usage, I've worked out a few myself, though they either require a lot of training or are fairly limited in flexibility.

Can you share a few?

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

3 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

The magician would need to be affected by natural magic in some way to have the power to do that I think. 

Ritual magic isn’t exactly something that can be used offensively, any magicians with offensive magic capabilities would have to use natural magic to a certain extent. 

I think that that could definitely work if the magician was a famed enchanter who cursed the king. 

Glove with the ritual for creating a flamethrower sewn onto the palm.

Staff with the circle for kinetic energy on it. 

Tattoo if the circle for lightning in the palm. 

Etc...

[MacThorstenson he/him]

Just now, ShadowLord_Lith said:

Glove with the ritual for creating a flamethrower sewn onto the palm.

Staff with the circle for kinetic energy on it. 

Tattoo if the circle for lightning in the palm. 

Etc...

But you still need to provide the ingredients. 

You would need to carry around the fuel to burn for the flame thrower.

you would need to have objects with high kinetic energy to tranfer that

you would need 2 giant objects to produce the opposing charge

[kenod]

• Mental spell casting, requires a lot of training even for mastering a single, simple spell. Only archmage-level mages would be capable of improvising with this.
• Scrolls inscribed with the spells, probably with some additional component (mental?) for deciding on coordinates.
• Metal talismans inscribed with basic spells and fuel embedded into them, throw them and activate with voice command.
• Tools (sword, spear, wand) inscribed with spells.
• Tattoos that target whatever is being touched. Again, mental variable adjustment might be necessary for more complex spells.
• Using enchanting on yourself.

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

1. That's fair, but also depends on how complex and flexible the circles variables are. 

2. Have the circle gather and store excess energy like heat during the normal day, the perform minor nuclear fusion or fusion on impact while absorbing the energy and expelling it to increase energy output.  (Edit: only output energy after a specific command is given and only on targets percieved as enemies. Or when a certain symbol is pressed. )

3. Or have part of the circle change the atoms between you and your target to match specified conditions. Have the circle sense your intention or something to determine the target. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by ShadowLord_Lith

[+ZincAboutIt she/her]

Thoughts on what would happen if someone/something was known throughout many countries and places but all by a different name? Would there be 5 different versions of that person/deity running around, or one person who can slightly change abilities and appearance depending on the territory they are in currently? I have some ideas on potential gods/gods-in-progress but I want to know the consensus on this before I write them up.

[kenod]

21 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

But you still need to provide the ingredients. 

You would need to carry around the fuel to burn for the flame thrower.

you would need to have objects with high kinetic energy to tranfer that

you would need 2 giant objects to produce the opposing charge

Flame thrower: This makes sense, you need some form of fuel. Still, you can collect hydrogen from the air for this, or even take water vapor and extract the hydrogen.

Kinetic energy: Why would you need to take the kinetic energy from something else? You're already getting energy from the Investure crystals that you're using as fuel. Wouldn't that take care of the energy? The same would go for thermal and electric energy.

Opposing charges: Again, wouldn't the Investure crystals already give the energy to do this? Of course, since you're just creating a single charge at the electricity origin, aiming will be impossible I guess, unless you use a different trick (laser?) to ionize the air along the path to the target first. Also, why would you need giant objects? Can't you take electrons from the target and concentrate them at the lightning origins?

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

22 minutes ago, ZincAboutIt said:

Thoughts on what would happen if someone/something was known throughout many countries and places but all by a different name? Would there be 5 different versions of that person/deity running around, or one person who can slightly change abilities and appearance depending on the territory they are in currently? I have some ideas on potential gods/gods-in-progress but I want to know the consensus on this before I write them up.

I figure it would be like Riordan's world, with the one guy changing based on who saw him and where he was. 

[+ZincAboutIt she/her]

1 minute ago, ShadowLord_Lith said:

I figure it would be like Riordan's world, with the one guy changing based on who saw him and where he was. 

Not sure who Riordan is, but this is what I was thinking as well.

Also, some ideas for this "Anti-Superstition League," which will likely tie into one or more of my characters. Please note these are only suggestions, feel free to chime in as you like on what works and doesn't.

“Anti-Superstition League” ideas:

Name Suggestions: Church of Reason, Doctrine of Sensibility, “The Orthodoxy”

• The priests/priestesses of an ascended god of reason/logic/education
• This priesthood spreads the word of their god, combating dangerous superstitions that could lead to the development of malignant spirits, monsters, etc.
• Their faith in the god allows them the gift of magically-enhanced oration/debate/lecture, which enables them to persuade many communities to dampen or abandon these dangerous beliefs altogether
• In some cases, the priests can also use this gift to negotiate with the monster/spirit/god in question, striking what is effectively a covenant between the being and the local community (this course of action is rarely taken and not recommended unless as a last resort)
• This group of people can be known in-world as the “Sayers” or “Speakers” (suggestion here) because of their powers of oration. This would give people an easy honorific title for members of this group. (Speaker Kivyet, Sayer Timmel, etc.)
• Groups of Sayers will often travel with an Innate, who can sense the pooling and flow of natural magic. Often they will guide the group to the problem-area in question.

Edited March 8, 2019 by ZincAboutIt

[kenod]

46 minutes ago, ZincAboutIt said:

Thoughts on what would happen if someone/something was known throughout many countries and places but all by a different name? Would there be 5 different versions of that person/deity running around, or one person who can slightly change abilities and appearance depending on the territory they are in currently? I have some ideas on potential gods/gods-in-progress but I want to know the consensus on this before I write them up.

I think it would depend on the difference in the tales. For example, a Greek god with a few small differences in their myths depending on the island would be a single person, who's a combination of the stories (possibly changing in strength depending on the region), while larger differences like between Greek and Roman gods would either have both versions walking around, or fully changing form and personality depending on the region they're in. If reconciling the stories becomes impossible they'd split into different versions.

25 minutes ago, ZincAboutIt said:

Not sure who Riordan is, but this is what I was thinking as well.

Also, some ideas for this "Anti-Superstition League," which will likely tie into one or more of my characters. Please note these are only suggestions, feel free to chime in as you like on what works and doesn't.

“Anti-Superstition League” ideas:

Name Suggestions: Church of Reason, Doctrine of Sensibility, “The Orthodoxy”

• The priests/priestesses of an ascended god of reason/logic/education
• This priesthood spreads the word of their god, combating dangerous superstitions that could lead to the development of malignant spirits, monsters, etc.
• Their faith in the god allows them the gift of magically-enhanced oration/debate/lecture, which enables them to persuade many communities to dampen or abandon these dangerous beliefs altogether
• In some cases, the priests can also use this gift to negotiate with the monster/spirit/god in question, striking what is effectively a covenant between the being and the local community (this course of action is rarely taken and not recommended unless as a last resort)
• This group of people can be known in-world as the “Sayers” or “Speakers” (suggestion here) because of their powers of oration. This would give people an easy honorific title for members of this group. (Speaker Kivyet, Sayer Timmel, etc.)
• Groups of Sayers will often travel with an Innate, who can sense the pooling and flow of natural magic. Often they will guide the group to the problem-area in question.

Sounds good, though how will their attitudes towards different manifestations of Natural magic differ? Will they only go after dangerous manifestations, or after everything? What is their attitude to other gods, especially ascended humans, or enhanced humans in general?
Also, do they have a militant branch to take care of dangerous manifestations that are already established?

[Gancho Libre he/him]

30 minutes ago, ShadowLord_Lith said:

I figure it would be like Riordan's world, with the one guy changing based on who saw him and where he was. 

As in Rick Riordan? Percy Jackson guy?

[MacThorstenson he/him]

1 hour ago, ShadowLord_Lith said:

1. That's fair, but also depends on how complex and flexible the circles variables are. 

2. Have the circle gather and store excess energy like heat during the normal day, the perform minor nuclear fusion or fusion on impact while absorbing the energy and expelling it to increase energy output.  (Edit: only output energy after a specific command is given and only on targets percieved as enemies. Or when a certain symbol is pressed. )

3. Or have part of the circle change the atoms between you and your target to match specified conditions. Have the circle sense your intention or something to determine the target. 

2. Ritual circles can’t go subatomic, they cant transmute elements from one to another, I think I mentioned that briefly in the beginning, but if they can transmute elements then it really becomes OP. I’m addition, then you could nuke things. If that was allowed then legit anything could be destroyed at any moment. You could sit  in your lab and make the site of the fusion or fission 100 miles away and no one could find you?

3. You could possibly communicate your intentions via mental commands, but it would be difficult because you would either need to perfectly picture the symbols in your mind, or add in another circle that was targeting your thoughts and have those imputed as the target. Both ways require a ton of mental strength. 

53 minutes ago, kenod said:

Flame thrower: This makes sense, you need some form of fuel. Still, you can collect hydrogen from the air for this, or even take water vapor and extract the hydrogen.

Kinetic energy: Why would you need to take the kinetic energy from something else? You're already getting energy from the Investure crystals that you're using as fuel. Wouldn't that take care of the energy? The same would go for thermal and electric energy.

Opposing charges: Again, wouldn't the Investure crystals already give the energy to do this? Of course, since you're just creating a single charge at the electricity origin, aiming will be impossible I guess, unless you use a different trick (laser?) to ionize the air along the path to the target first. Also, why would you need giant objects? Can't you take electrons from the target and concentrate them at the lightning origins?

I imagined the investiture crystals as a specific type of fuel, not as a general energy source. If we want to change that we can, but the way I pictured it was like stormlight. Stormlight can’t fuel awakening or the aondor wthout hacks. I was thinking that if you wanted to transfer the crystals into another form of energy you would need a separate ritual with the sole intent of converting the energy. In addition I would think it would be rediculously inefficient, because you are converting a high demand specialized recourse, into something that is everywhere.  

I said two giant objects because the bigger the objects the more electrons and the larger the charges. 

Air is a terrible conductor, so you need huge charges to make the lightning jump. 

 

[kenod]

7 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

I imagined the investiture crystals as a specific type of fuel, not as a general energy source. If we want to change that we can, but the way I pictured it was like stormlight. Stormlight can’t fuel awakening or the aondor wthout hacks. I was thinking that if you wanted to transfer the crystals into another form of energy you would need a separate ritual with the sole intent of converting the energy. In addition I would think it would be rediculously inefficient, because you are converting a high demand specialized recourse, into something that is everywhere.  

I said two giant objects because the bigger the objects the more electrons and the larger the charges. 

Air is a terrible conductor, so you need huge charges to make the lightning jump. 

How would effects be created if you can't use magic to add momentum to things? I get that taking energy from something else would probably be cheaper, and might be a preferred technique, but not really allowing for using the Investure fuel as energy source would make magic rather underpowered I think. The only solution I know would be to take the kinetic energy from the planet instead, but other than that you'd be extremely limited in the ways magic can be used.
My suggestion would be to have different crystals instead, each attuned to a different type of energy.

As for air not really working for electricity spells, you're right at that. I guess most electricity spells would either be touch-based, or use some other conductor, although a few spells might ionize the air first to create a path for the electricity that does conduct it properly.

[MacThorstenson he/him]

37 minutes ago, kenod said:

How would effects be created if you can't use magic to add momentum to things? I get that taking energy from something else would probably be cheaper, and might be a preferred technique, but not really allowing for using the Investure fuel as energy source would make magic rather underpowered I think. The only solution I know would be to take the kinetic energy from the planet instead, but other than that you'd be extremely limited in the ways magic can be used.

I don’t think that ritual magic would be responsible for creating affects like that, but there is a lot of ways to get around that. It’s not just combining two things to make a provider, you can have as many reactants and products as you want, so what could happen is if you needed kinetic energy you could take it from the molecules in a fire, or from anything else producing heat. 

When you break down the physics of it, kinetic energy and heat are very similar, so those are transferable. 

What specific effects were you thinking of that you would need to use the magic to achieve?

[+ZincAboutIt she/her]

1 hour ago, kenod said:

I think it would depend on the difference in the tales. For example, a Greek god with a few small differences in their myths depending on the island would be a single person, who's a combination of the stories (possibly changing in strength depending on the region), while larger differences like between Greek and Roman gods would either have both versions walking around, or fully changing form and personality depending on the region they're in. If reconciling the stories becomes impossible they'd split into different versions.

This brings up even more interesting things/possibilities/conflicts I can cook up!

1 hour ago, kenod said:

Sounds good, though how will their attitudes towards different manifestations of Natural magic differ? Will they only go after dangerous manifestations, or after everything? What is their attitude to other gods, especially ascended humans, or enhanced humans in general?
Also, do they have a militant branch to take care of dangerous manifestations that are already established?

I thought of the majority of the order being almost kind of "sent for," the way you'd send for a priest to perform an exorcism. So, more often than not, they respond to requests or rumors of problems in an area. Some of the members have militant training, and there is probably a sect that are solely militant to take care of a true threat. The rest of the time, I pictured them as largely non-interventionist unless they sense something is truly dangerous. While they might not always approve of other gods or enhanced humans (at least above their own god) they don't get involved with that, or aren't supposed to anyway. They seek to proselytize their faith in their own god, and obviously increased faith only adds to the god's power, but it's not so much a conversion mission as it is a mission to spread "sensible belief" habits/dispelling ignorance. Using Natural magic to one's benefit rather than believing in things that can harm. The patron god does not seek to convert, their intent is reason and education. When a community outright refuses to stop believing in a malignant spirit or creature, or is doing it on purpose to spread malignance, then that is usually when outside help is sent for. Ritual mages, even other gods - especially those who have sway in one area or another - who can address a threat better than they can. I think that if a community believed in something that was positive to neutral, they would suggest not to believe, but also not press the issue too hard.

[kenod]

14 minutes ago, ZincAboutIt said:

I thought of the majority of the order being almost kind of "sent for," the way you'd send for a priest to perform an exorcism. So, more often than not, they respond to requests or rumors of problems in an area. Some of the members have militant training, and there is probably a sect that are solely militant to take care of a true threat. The rest of the time, I pictured them as largely non-interventionist unless they sense something is truly dangerous. While they might not always approve of other gods or enhanced humans (at least above their own god) they don't get involved with that, or aren't supposed to anyway. They seek to proselytize their faith in their own god, and obviously increased faith only adds to the god's power, but it's not so much a conversion mission as it is a mission to spread "sensible belief" habits/dispelling ignorance. Using Natural magic to one's benefit rather than believing in things that can harm. The patron god does not seek to convert, their intent is reason and education. When a community outright refuses to stop believing in a malignant spirit or creature, or is doing it on purpose to spread malignance, then that is usually when outside help is sent for. Ritual mages, even other gods - especially those who have sway in one area or another - who can address a threat better than they can. I think that if a community believed in something that was positive to neutral, they would suggest not to believe, but also not press the issue too hard.

Alright, thanks. I had the idea for this cult in some hidden wood that was guarded by and served a spirit there, they wouldn't really go around harming people, though there are probably some rumors about them, like consorting with spirits, and not being fully human. Would they go after this cult or not?

[+ZincAboutIt she/her]

1 minute ago, kenod said:

Alright, thanks. I had the idea for this cult in some hidden wood that was guarded by and served a spirit there, they wouldn't really go around harming people, though there are probably some rumors about them, like consorting with spirits, and not being fully human. Would they go after this cult or not?

If this is as out-of-the-way as it sounds, likely not. There might me some true zealots in the organization who want to go out and correct those foolish cultists, but I don't think they'd be able to summon up enough support from the main body of the organization to sanction a trip out there. You might get some stray groups traipsing out there, but I imagine that something may... ah.. befall an errant Sayer who is speaking in places they aren't wanted. It's a rather dangerous thing going out alone into the world as a Sayer, and solo-missions are rarely officially sanctioned. So if someone wants to go on a crusade and gets killed, the Orthodoxy isn't going to follow up. If lots and lots of Sayers end up going missing in an area, then yeah they might send a sanctioned force. Aside from that you're good. They are almost universally allowed across country lines but aren't usually protected by the law officially. Missionary work is dangerous and the Orthodoxy knows this. A certain number of zealous crusaders go missing each year and it's kind of factored into the log books. 

[kenod]

Alright, thanks. I was thinking of using them as a background for my character, so I'll probably put them in the planning doc once I've worked out the details.

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

1 hour ago, Gancho Libre said:

As in Rick Riordan? Percy Jackson guy?

Yes. 

 

1 hour ago, MacThorstenson said:

2. Ritual circles can’t go subatomic, they cant transmute elements from one to another, I think I mentioned that briefly in the beginning, but if they can transmute elements then it really becomes OP. I’m addition, then you could nuke things. If that was allowed then legit anything could be destroyed at any moment. You could sit  in your lab and make the site of the fusion or fission 100 miles away and no one could find you?

3. You could possibly communicate your intentions via mental commands, but it would be difficult because you would either need to perfectly picture the symbols in your mind, or add in another circle that was targeting your thoughts and have those imputed as the target. Both ways require a ton of mental strength. 

I imagined the investiture crystals as a specific type of fuel, not as a general energy source. If we want to change that we can, but the way I pictured it was like stormlight. Stormlight can’t fuel awakening or the aondor wthout hacks. I was thinking that if you wanted to transfer the crystals into another form of energy you would need a separate ritual with the sole intent of converting the energy. In addition I would think it would be rediculously inefficient, because you are converting a high demand specialized recourse, into something that is everywhere.  

I said two giant objects because the bigger the objects the more electrons and the larger the charges. 

Air is a terrible conductor, so you need huge charges to make the lightning jump. 

 

2. I can see that, so fission is out,  but fusion is viable. And yes someone could do that, but they'd have to provide enough energy to cause fusion in the first place, and they'd have to be able to know the exact atoms they'd be guessing, wouldn't they? Besides, fusing hydrogen and oxygen doesn't cause explosions from basic spells, so it could just be an innate part of the magic that such destruction is impossible unless directly intended. 

3. I acknowledge that, It's just a possibility I was bringing up. 

I think that I was saying that the crystal would power the circle, and the circle would change the charges of the atoms between you and your target, then energy would naturally create lightning itself. Unless I'm terribly misunderstanding the way lightning functions...

[kenod]

51 minutes ago, ShadowLord_Lith said:

2. I can see that, so fission is out,  but fusion is viable. And yes someone could do that, but they'd have to provide enough energy to cause fusion in the first place, and they'd have to be able to know the exact atoms they'd be guessing, wouldn't they? Besides, fusing hydrogen and oxygen doesn't cause explosions from basic spells, so it could just be an innate part of the magic that such destruction is impossible unless directly intended. 

I'm not sure if viable is the right term, since it's probably impossible to create a fusion reaction that gives more energy than it takes to get going, meaning that it would be much more efficient to use that energy for something else instead, and that's ignoring the massive amount of energy necessary to get the reaction going in the first place, which is made even worse from fusing hydrogen/oxygen, which are fairly terrible fusion fuels to begin with.

55 minutes ago, ShadowLord_Lith said:

I think that I was saying that the crystal would power the circle, and the circle would change the charges of the atoms between you and your target, then energy would naturally create lightning itself. Unless I'm terribly misunderstanding the way lightning functions...

Might work, but I have the feeling stripping electrons from the air doesn't automatically makes them go towards the target, I think they'd likely either go back to the air atoms that are now lacking an electron, or just scatter into the enviroment. Lightning spells in general are really wasteful when it comes to efficiency, or at least they are with the way fiction generally portrays them. Touch-based spells would probably work best for electricity spells.

[+Ark1002]

5 hours ago, ShadowLord_Lith said:

That is an awesome legend! 

Yep. Lots of fairy tales inspired it.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Arky-boi