Elhokar [Oathbringer Spoilers!]

[RShara she/her]

There's the Ultimate List, but it's really hard to keep updated. It's best to just check and see if your questions have been answered.

[_Tempus_]

On 20/12/2018 at 0:20 AM, Turtle373 said:

this is why he can't figure out lightweaving because he doesn't have access to it

I'm not really sure if Truthwatchers in general have the ability to lightweave, after all, lightweaving depends on the art and the special Memory ability of the Lightweavers. The truthwatcher's surge of illumination may be different to the Lightweavers, as evidenced by this quote from Oathbringer:

Quote

“Renarin raised his fist and summoned Stormlight. It glowed as a powerful beacon. And …The red molten eyes faded before that light, and the thing settled down with a last extinguishing sigh.”

 

It's as if the Truthwatcher's surge of illumination is somehow more on the offensive and practical side of things instead of illusion. Or perhaps it's just a side effect of Renarin bonding with a corrupted spren.

[Kon-Tiki he/him]

So, we've seen Lightweaver and an Elsecaller both use Transformation, and its been the same. We've seen an Edgedancer and a Truthwatcher use Progression, and its been the same. We've seen a Skybreaker and a Windrunner use Gravitation, and its been the same. So far, the Surges seem to work differently from those they share them with only for Bondsmiths, and even then Dalinar can stick people to the floor or chairs to the wall (though I'd guess that he can't replicate Kaladin's trick with the air pressure). I don't know why normal Truthwatcher Illumination would be different from Lightweaver Illumination. Obviously Renarin is a special case, but I'd guess if we meet another Truthwatcher their Illumination will function much more similarly to Shallan's

[+robardin he/him]

17 hours ago, Kon-Tiki said:

I don't know why normal Truthwatcher Illumination would be different from Lightweaver Illumination. Obviously Renarin is a special case, but I'd guess if we meet another Truthwatcher their Illumination will function much more similarly to Shallan's

One reason could be thematic to the order of the Radiant, if that is the right word to use.

For example, both Shallan and Jasnah have Transformation in the form of Soulcasting, but Jasnah is far more attuned to using it offensively, while Shallan seems to use it most naturally to make her illusions more real, to put little pieces of herself into them, like mini-splinters. Or in her inspirational sketches, which sometimes have the power to Transform a person into a more idealized version of themselves.

So it could be that while Illumination for a Lightweaver is about weaving illusions, for a Truthwatcher it would somehow relate to "illuminating" in the sense of uncovering, rather than covering up or changing, the nature of something. Which is why the Odium-corrupted version of Glys imparts a vision of the future, "which is of the enemy". Perhaps the ordinary version of a Truthwatcher's illumination is similar - they see scenes played out before their eyes - but of the past or present instead of the future, or revealing disguises or subterfuge.

Edited January 11, 2019 by robardin

[Kon-Tiki he/him]

I don't disagree that what Shallan was doing at Theylan Field was probably straying into Resonance territory, but I have a hard time believing that the entirety of her illusory skill is a Resonance. I also hesitate to take anything that happened at Theylan Field as representative of what is normally possible. The Illumination surge has to do with the manipulation of light and sound (Pattern is specific that sound manipulation is part of the surge). I'm sure that Truthwatcher resonances probably have to do with what you're talking about, but the basic operation of the surges seem to be the same between Orders who share those surges, with the exception of the Bondsmiths, who are exceptional in a few other important ways. I'd guess that Renarin's inability to do what Shallan does either has to do with the number of Oaths he's sworn or the fact that Glys is corrupted. The surge, if he even still has access to it at all, may just work differently for him. But I expect that, as I said above, other Truthwatchers would be able to do at least the basics of what Shallan is capable of in terms of illusion.

[Eris she/her]

8 hours ago, Kon-Tiki said:

I don't disagree that what Shallan was doing at Theylan Field was probably straying into Resonance territory, but I have a hard time believing that the entirety of her illusory skill is a Resonance. I also hesitate to take anything that happened at Theylan Field as representative of what is normally possible. The Illumination surge has to do with the manipulation of light and sound (Pattern is specific that sound manipulation is part of the surge). I'm sure that Truthwatcher resonances probably have to do with what you're talking about, but the basic operation of the surges seem to be the same between Orders who share those surges, with the exception of the Bondsmiths, who are exceptional in a few other important ways. I'd guess that Renarin's inability to do what Shallan does either has to do with the number of Oaths he's sworn or the fact that Glys is corrupted. The surge, if he even still has access to it at all, may just work differently for him. But I expect that, as I said above, other Truthwatchers would be able to do at least the basics of what Shallan is capable of in terms of illusion.

I shared awhile ago the concept that maybe Renarin can't use the illumination surge because of him being on the spectrum which makes it harder for to imagine something because people of the spectrum are more literal in thinking. That's why sarcasm and similar go over their heads. They usually can only see the literal thing and takes a lot of proactice to be able to imagine something completely in their own head. 

[RShara she/her]

9 hours ago, Kon-Tiki said:

I don't disagree that what Shallan was doing at Theylan Field was probably straying into Resonance territory, but I have a hard time believing that the entirety of her illusory skill is a Resonance. I also hesitate to take anything that happened at Theylan Field as representative of what is normally possible. The Illumination surge has to do with the manipulation of light and sound (Pattern is specific that sound manipulation is part of the surge). I'm sure that Truthwatcher resonances probably have to do with what you're talking about, but the basic operation of the surges seem to be the same between Orders who share those surges, with the exception of the Bondsmiths, who are exceptional in a few other important ways. I'd guess that Renarin's inability to do what Shallan does either has to do with the number of Oaths he's sworn or the fact that Glys is corrupted. The surge, if he even still has access to it at all, may just work differently for him. But I expect that, as I said above, other Truthwatchers would be able to do at least the basics of what Shallan is capable of in terms of illusion.

The Lightweaver Resonance is their mnemonic abilities.

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

If I recall correctly Renarin's lightwever surge is different from Shallan's and we've seen its use on screen. When he healed Adolin's wrist that was progression but before Adolin notices that he was healed Renarin sent him an image of his Idealized self and of his potential. It looks suspiciously like what Shallan accomplishes with drawings. I believe he still has access to his normal 2 Truthwatcher surges. He just has an extra bit too.