Dor Aons on Aluminum?

[Quantus]

This came up while talking ways to kill Fullborn

An Elatrian can create aons with physical materials like stone and wire, could they use one scribed onto Aluminum, and if so would it function any differently?

Technically it is immune to Investiture from all but specific bits of the Metallic Arts, so it's not 100% incompatible with Investiture.  Dor Aons are pure Cognitive constructs and are, uniquely, sourced in the Cognitive realm (bypassing the than the Spiritual entirely), I wonder if that is enough difference to side-step Aluminum's Investiture-sink properties (especially if they are a Spiritual Realm thing).

Edited December 6, 2018 by Quantus

[Themasterhunter]

This is an interesting question. I think that with the Dor, and the nature of its runic and very pattern based magic, would work the same if inscribed into aluminum.

I think the only benefit to using an aluminum base for a rune would be that the Fullborn Simply wouldn't be able to manipulate it with Allomancy. 

[Quantus]

46 minutes ago, Themasterhunter said:

This is an interesting question. I think that with the Dor, and the nature of its runic and very pattern based magic, would work the same if inscribed into aluminum.

I think the only benefit to using an aluminum base for a rune would be that the Fullborn Simply wouldn't be able to manipulate it with Allomancy. 

That was the general idea. Though as an extension, would they be able to anticipate it?  Atium cannot anticipate an Aluminum bullet,  Id like to think that might extend to the Aon scribed into it, but that feels like having it both ways. 

[Calderis]

Considering that Sel is really one subdivided magic system, and Ralkalest the unforgable metal, is aluminum... I'm going to go with no, it wouldn't work. 

[Quantus]

48 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Considering that Sel is really one subdivided magic system, and Ralkalest the unforgable metal, is aluminum... I'm going to go with no, it wouldn't work. 

Excellent point.  The only difference I can think of is that in the case of Forgery the aluminum is the Target of the Aon's effect, rather than being sort of tangent to the energy flows, being the physical material where just the shape is important.  In Forgery, could you make a functional soulstamp out of Aluminum? Does the soulstamp (object) itself need to hold an Investiture charge, or could it still be used to apply a soulstamp?

[Weltall]

Since the symbols that you draw in all the magic systems on Sel create the conduit through which the Dor flows into the Physical Realm and does its thing, I suspect that an Aon made out of/carved into aluminum would fail as soon as the power tries flowing into the Physical and the first thing it runs into on the other end is a hunk of aluminum. Aon Ehe is a good example of where I think you'd have an issue, since the fire comes from the Aon and its facing determines the direction the burst of fire goes in once the Aon activates. I don't think that would work if you tried making the Aon out of aluminum and it would just absorb the Investiture as it transitions Realms.

[Themasterhunter]

I don't think that the Aons need to have a Conduit or Investiture charge to enter the physical realm any more than Aons drawn go around or follow the very physical shape of Sel. An argument can be made that using an aluminum plate would interfere with the "feeding" of the Aon on investiture. This point, however, functions on a concept of aluminum absorbing, or "black holeing" investiture, which isn't how aluminum works. Aluminum simply isn't detectable, not because of a hole in the investiture necessarily, but because it can't have investiture actively pushed through it in any way.

 

Because of the very Physical nature of the Aonic magic system, namely through a series of symbolic interpretations of the layout of the land, and simply channeling investiture through symbols, an Aon would work better because it cannot be interfered with in any way.

 

Soulstamps, very similarly to Aons, use a symbol with cognitive, rather than physical connotations. A soulstamp inflicts an investiture charge onto an object, changing a cognitive portion of the spiritweb, and therefore changing other Physical and Spiritual aspects of the object. 

 

Aons don't function through anything except form.

[Quantus]

2 hours ago, Themasterhunter said:

This point, however, functions on a concept of aluminum absorbing, or "black holeing" investiture, which isn't how aluminum works. Aluminum simply isn't detectable, not because of a hole in the investiture necessarily, but because it can't have investiture actively pushed through it in any way.

There's more to it than that, though I agree that the exact mechanism is not fully understood; per WOB "Aluminum resists Investiture generally, even when it’s not Invested itself."  You cannot heal around an Aluminum bullet/weapon, and aluminum can pierce/negate physical effects as well as mental/detection ones, and even block Push/Pulls on other metal if it has enough aluminum shielding. It also resists both Forgery and Soulcasting.  You cant charge it with surges like Adhesion or gravitation, and will even prevent a time bubble from forming if an aluminum object is in the way of the boundary.

 

[Themasterhunter]

Yes, we need more info, but the basis of my point still stands

[MountainKing]

It depends on how aons work. Does the dor flow through the metal in then the aon or does it just flow directly in the aon from the cognitive realm.

[Themasterhunter]

If you can draw Aons midair with investiture I think that the Shape is what allows it to be used, not what the shape is made of