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Theory on Shardplate/Shardblades (Possible Spoilers)


b4dave

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I have been wondering why Shardblades and Shardplate are named as they are.

I have a theory that they are Splinters of the Shard Honor, and that honor has been dead for a longer time than we are thinking. I think they are what is left of Honor after he has been killed by Odium.

When I asked about this during Sanderson's Q&A on reddit today, here is the answer I got:

(me) b4dave:

Hi Brandon, I've been an avid lover of your books since I purchased Elantris just based on the cover alone, and was pleasantly surprised with a completely amazing work of fantasy on the inside.

My question is, why are they called Shardblades/Shardplate? Is it because they are a splinter of the the Shard Honor, or is there something more to them than that?

(BS) mistborn

Thanks!

As for your question, you are on the right track.

This leads me to think that my theory is correct, at least in part. I wanted to know what you guys thought, and maybe can expand on, and give references that could back this up since I dont have my copy of WoK with me at the moment.

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I have been wondering why Shardblades and Shardplate are named as they are.

I have a theory that they are Splinters of the Shard Honor, and that honor has been dead for a longer time than we are thinking. I think they are what is left of Honor after he has been killed by Odium.

When I asked about this during Sanderson's Q&A on reddit today, here is the answer I got:

(me) b4dave:

Hi Brandon, I've been an avid lover of your books since I purchased Elantris just based on the cover alone, and was pleasantly surprised with a completely amazing work of fantasy on the inside.

My question is, why are they called Shardblades/Shardplate? Is it because they are a splinter of the the Shard Honor, or is there something more to them than that?

(BS) mistborn

Thanks!

As for your question, you are on the right track.

This leads me to think that my theory is correct, at least in part. I wanted to know what you guys thought, and maybe can expand on, and give references that could back this up since I dont have my copy of WoK with me at the moment.

Seems like a good idea that they are more connected to Honor than I've seen stated yet, and they could even be Splinters (although I find that unlikely), but that doesn't mean that Honor has been dead a lot longer than we think.

Firstly, let's look at the only thing we have 100% confirmation to be Splinters: Returned. Returned did not come from the death of the holder of Endowment. In fact, Returned existed specifically because Endowment chose to return them. I think that many people are hearing the word "Splinter" and thinking it's the Shard falling apart, probably because of Hoid's letter stating (paraphased), "that which Aona and Skai once held has now been splintered." That said, as I've shown, we know for a fact that someone having a Splinter of shard's power does not mean the holder of the shard is dead.

Secondly, as I've said, I agree that Shardplate and Shardblades most likely come from the power of Honor (or some other shard), especially considering that statement from Brandon. However, from what we've seen of Splinters so far, they don't seem to be objects. They seem more like extra powerful users of a particular magic or concentrated bits of the fuel of a particular magic, potentially at the cost of that magic's lesser fuel.

Having said that, I think the Heralds are more likely to be Splinters than the plate and blades. Perhaps hey were giving a Splinters of Honor's power as a part of the Oathpact, and when they no longer honored that oath they lost their powers?

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I think that it is definitely on the right track. During that same Q&A I asked him if they were the physical forms of a Shard, like Atium was in Mistborn. He said he would reveal whether or not that were the case in a future book.

My thought, however, is that they might not be a part of Honor at all. At least, not Shardblades. Honorblades, which we know to be totally different, ARE part of Honor I think.

Shardblades, however, have always been somewhat sinister. The black, smoking eyes...The propensity for people to kill one another over them, their use as an engine of destruction...

If you ask me, I think they are either splinters of, or the physical form of ODIUM, and not Honor at all.

Edited by MindCanaries
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My thought, however, is that they might not be a part of Honor at all. At least, not Shardblades. Honorblades, which we know to be totally different, ARE part of Honor I think.

Shardblades, however, have always been somewhat sinister. The black, smoking eyes...The propensity for people to em, their use as an engine of destruction...

If you ask me, I think they are either splinters of, or the physical form of ODIUM, and not Honor at all.

Wait, Honorblades are the Herald's weapons, right?

And while it sounds like a cool idea, it doesn't seem right. Ati lost most of his power with his atium, and Odium is "the most powerful of the sixteen": it seems like he wouldn't be so powerful with just part of his body. Also, splintering a shard seems to destroy it, in a way. No one can own it.

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True, though Atium was being harvested and kept away from Ruin. Shardblades are, by admission, few and far between. It seems possible that Rayse would let some of his own destructive power circulate, if it increased the war and hatred on Roshar.

I am not suggesting that they are splinters of Odium's Shard in the way that Seons or Skaze are. We saw Atium, despite Ruin being unsplintered. The Shards have physical bodies that, as we have seen, are not really bodies at all.

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Wait, Honorblades are the Herald's weapons, right?

And while it sounds like a cool idea, it doesn't seem right. Ati lost most of his power with his atium, and Odium is "the most powerful of the sixteen": it seems like he wouldn't be so powerful with just part of his body. Also, splintering a shard seems to destroy it, in a way. No one can own it.

Just a point here: I do not believe Ruin lost all, or even most, of his power with the loss of Atium. The thing about that conflict was that Preservation and Ruin are enormous sources of power, but they instinctively fight each other, and they are perfectly balanced in their full forms. The entire war, if you want to call it that, was fought at the fringes of their power where extremely small differences in technique and strategy added up. The bulk of their power the entire time was pushed up against each other and not moving. It's like watching two enormous men arm-wrestle: most of the energy goes into stopping the other from doing anything at all. The actual win comes from things you would have a hard time even noticing if you watched it from the outside with a full understanding of the context.

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Would explain Syl's aversion to them.

I sort of got the idea that her aversion to the blades was due to their perversion from their original purpose. As well as that, there is something itching in my mind about the two dream sequences where we see Radiants; when Dalinar fights the midnight essence, the two knights' armour seems almost a part of them. It starts glowing more when they begin to use their power, and pieces of it appear and disappear at will, like the helmet when the knights wish to talk. In the other one, the Day of Recreance, the armour and blades seem to almost die a little when the knights cast them off. Those two things together make me think of shards being almost akin to the Parshendi carapace armour.

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I second CabbageHead's ideas. The Blades were originally meant for the Knights Radiant, formed after the Honorblades. They "glowed" when they used them- until they broke their word, broke the promises they had. Then, they started to discharge from power. It is only in (relatively) recent history that they have been used against humans instead of to protect them.

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One thing that's always bugged me: There's a line on the back cover of that says: "The world can change. Surgebinding and Shardwielding can return; the magics of ancient days can become ours again."

So, if we assume Shardwielding to be related to the Shardblades, then that implies that there is something special about the way the Knights Radiant wielded the Shardblades (probably related to them glowing).

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I think that it is definitely on the right track. During that same Q&A I asked him if they were the physical forms of a Shard, like Atium was in Mistborn. He said he would reveal whether or not that were the case in a future book.

My thought, however, is that they might not be a part of Honor at all. At least, not Shardblades. Honorblades, which we know to be totally different, ARE part of Honor I think.

Shardblades, however, have always been somewhat sinister. The black, smoking eyes...The propensity for people to kill one another over them, their use as an engine of destruction...

If you ask me, I think they are either splinters of, or the physical form of ODIUM, and not Honor at all.

Brilliant

I just joined to propose this very theory!!

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One thing that's always bugged me: There's a line on the back cover of that says: "The world can change. Surgebinding and Shardwielding can return; the magics of ancient days can become ours again."

So, if we assume Shardwielding to be related to the Shardblades, then that implies that there is something special about the way the Knights Radiant wielded the Shardblades (probably related to them glowing).

I have a theory about this-somehow, the pact between Honour and Odium allowed the The Radiants to use the Shardblades for good even though they were of Odium.

However, when the Heralds broke the pact, Honor's control of the Blades vanished-which is when the Radiants abandoned the blades.

In Dallinar's vision involving Feverstone Keep:

redulity. Those around him treated the man like a brightlord.

“...the Order of the Stonewards, my lord,” the still-mounted scout was saying. “And a large

number of Windrunners. All on foot.”

“But why?” the darkeyed officer demanded. “Why are Radiants coming here? They should be

fighting the devils on the front lines!”

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I have a theory about this-somehow, the pact between Honour and Odium allowed the The Radiants to use the Shardblades for good even though they were of Odium.

However, when the Heralds broke the pact, Honor's control of the Blades vanished-which is when the Radiants abandoned the blades.

Based on the vision with Nohadon, didn't formation of the Knights Radiant happened after the Desolations began? He never mentioned them but he did mention people with Radiant like powers and in particular one person who had the bond (forget the name) and started a war just before a Desolation. It was my understanding that Nohadon founded the Knights Radiant and The Way of Kings was how the ideals would pass through history.

True, though Atium was being harvested and kept away from Ruin. Shardblades are, by admission, few and far between. It seems possible that Rayse would let some of his own destructive power circulate, if it increased the war and hatred on Roshar.

I am not suggesting that they are splinters of Odium's Shard in the way that Seons or Skaze are. We saw Atium, despite Ruin being unsplintered. The Shards have physical bodies that, as we have seen, are not really bodies at all.

Also the Desolations have been going on for a long time. Odium could have given some of his power to the creation of blades or other manifestations early on or before the Oathpact, long before he started going after the holders of other Shards.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The possibility that shards are of Odium might also somehow tie into the Thrill, which does not seem limited to Dalinar alone. He describes it at some point with his son, who is coincidentally another shardbearer.

But the glowing thing would lead me to believe that they were probably originally of Honor. If anything, they may have been "converted" to Odium when the Radiants gave them up - which is perceived as a dishonorable act. It appears motiveless and, from the original Heralds in the prologue, possibly just selfishness. I can't wait to find out why the Radiants actually abandoned them. Defiance, frustration, fear?

Edited by IvoryRoad
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The possibility that shards are of Odium might also somehow tie into the Thrill, which does not seem limited to Dalinar alone. He describes it at some point with his son, who is coincidentally another shardbearer.

But the glowing thing would lead me to believe that they were probably originally of Honor. If anything, they may have been "converted" to Odium when the Radiants gave them up - which is perceived as a dishonorable act. It appears motiveless and, from the original Heralds in the prologue, possibly just selfishness. I can't wait to find out why the Radiants actually abandoned them. Defiance, frustration, fear?

Or because the Heralds broke the Oathpact?

The fall of the Radiants occurred after the last Desolation.

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Or because the Heralds broke the Oathpact?

The fall of the Radiants occurred after the last Desolation.

Ooh, true that. I wonder how much time actually separated the fall of the Heralds and the Recreance (that's what they called it, right?).

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Ooh, true that. I wonder how much time actually separated the fall of the Heralds and the Recreance (that's what they called it, right?).

Good question. We know the day of Recreance was a long time ago, long ago enough that people dont really remember what the Radiants could do, except in very simple terms, like "walking on walls".

I think a question that everyone ignores, however, is what was the Day of Recreance, and what were the true reasons behind it? The accepted historical line is that the Knights Radiant abandoned humanity. I think the truth of the matter would probably be more along the lines of humanity abandoning the Knights, and the Knights thinking, ok, you don't appreciate what we do, you're on your own now.

There is evidence that people complained about the tax the Radiants imposed to support their activities:

“Though I was due for dinner in Veden City that night, I insisted upon visiting Kholinar to speak with Tivbet. The tariffs through Urithiru were growing quite unreasonable. By then, the so-called Radiants had already begun to show their true nature.”

—Following the firing of the original Palanaeum, only one page of Terxim’s autobiography remained, and this is the only line of any use to me.

Àt the same time, the Radiants were expected to do all the major work in battle. As per Dalinar's stormvision of the Day of Recreance

“…the Order of the Stonewards, my lord,” the still-mounted scout was saying. “And a large number of Windrunners. All on foot.”

“But why?” the darkeyed officer demanded. “Why are Radiants coming here? They should be fighting the devils on the front lines!”

Humanity was not abandoned by the Radiants. Humanity refused to support them, and they quit their job in despair.

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“But why?” the darkeyed officer demanded. “Why are Radiants coming here? They should be fighting the devils on the front lines!”

That line convinced me that their betrayal directly followed the breaking of the Oathpact.

The Radiants did not fight in human wars-they were meant to assist the Heralds in the Desolations.

Side note: Both the Pashendi and the Knights Radiant have been shown in male-female pairs.

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That line convinced me that their betrayal directly followed the breaking of the Oathpact.

The Radiants did not fight in human wars-they were meant to assist the Heralds in the Desolations.

Side note: Both the Pashendi and the Knights Radiant have been shown in male-female pairs.

I'm not convinced they did betray humanity. That line is from the Day of Recreance: after the last Desolation. People seem to be very vocal about what the Radiants should be doing, but unwilling to pull their own weight.

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I'm not convinced they did betray humanity. That line is from the Day of Recreance: after the last Desolation. People seem to be very vocal about what the Radiants should be doing, but unwilling to pull their own weight.

What I mean is, their weapons lost either their powers or Honour's sanction when the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact see?

The Radiants left because their leaders did.

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What I mean is, their weapons lost either their powers or Honour's sanction when the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact see?

The Radiants left because their leaders did.

I don't think it is quite that simple. I believe shardplate and shardblades lost a large portion of their power because they were fueled by their bearers, and are now supported by infused gems instead. However, I don't think the Radiants left because of the Heralds leaving. I thnink they quit out of disgust at humanity as a whole, expecting them to do everything for them but not being willing to pay for it.

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I don't think it is quite that simple. I believe shardplate and shardblades lost a large portion of their power because they were fueled by their bearers, and are now supported by infused gems instead. However, I don't think the Radiants left because of the Heralds leaving. I thnink they quit out of disgust at humanity as a whole, expecting them to do everything for them but not being willing to pay for it.

I think the plate has always been supported by infused gems, and that the stormlight could also be used to fuel Surgebinding back when the Radiants wore it. Blades don't use gems. I agree with you about their reason for "abandoning" the rest of humanity.

Also, let's be clear here, Splinter is the term used for a division created when the Shard is Splintered, Sliver would be a better term for the Blades and Plate if Honor, Cultivation, or Odium contributed some power to their creation. I still can't decide if Odium was involved in creating the Blades, but I certainly do think Odium is responsible for the thrill.

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I think the plate has always been supported by infused gems, and that the stormlight could also be used to fuel Surgebinding back when the Radiants wore it. Blades don't use gems. I agree with you about their reason for "abandoning" the rest of humanity.

Also, let's be clear here, Splinter is the term used for a division created when the Shard is Splintered, Sliver would be a better term for the Blades and Plate if Honor, Cultivation, or Odium contributed some power to their creation. I still can't decide if Odium was involved in creating the Blades, but I certainly do think Odium is responsible for the thrill.

I agree with the infused-gems-are-the-fuel theory, and that the glowing effect with the Plate was unrelated.

Hmm. Assuming that, at the very least, the Plate is (or was) of Honor, what caused them to stop glowing? Perhaps it was his death, but I don't think Honor had been killed quite yet.

I think it might have more in common with Scadrial's pact - as in, Preservation is allowed to create humanity with the promise that Ruin will later be able to destroy them. Of course, Preservation did end up double-crossing Ruin anyway, but that's beside the point. Perhaps Honor agreed to withdraw his own essence from the Plate (and perhaps the Blades, maybe even "converting" them to be of Odium, thus the Thrill), and sacrifice himself, in exchange for the end of the Desolations. It would tie right in with his Intent also; possibly the highest honor one can give you is to die for your sake. Dalinar would also be some nice foreshadowing; giving up his Blade for the lives of his people. (That's called a stretch, ladies and gentlemen.)

Obviously just conjecture, but in terms of an inter-deity pact, that's the best I've got.

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