Jasnah and Shallan

[Stormcrown]

So, its obvious that Jasnah will come to Shallan and they will meet in Book 3.

 

One thing I was wondering was...what if it doesnt go over very well?

 

Shallan very quickly took over Jasnah's goals and work that she was planning to do on the shattered plains. If Jasnah comes in and tries to "take over" for Shallan, will shallan just roll over? She seems to be getting quite comfortable with being in charge. We don't quite know how the Elsecallers get along with the Lightweavers, as far as Spren go. Maybe it won't matter, but its worth thinking about.

 

Perhaps it will go over well, as Jasnah will come back with a wealth of information and use that to be superior to Shallan, but if she comes with less information than Shallan, I don't see how she will maintain her "Teacher" type role if she has very little to teach. And we don't know how the whole ghostblood thing will go over with Jasnah either.

 

Its more of a random "What if" than me actually thinking it will happen this way, I dont think Sanderson is going to write their meeting to be negative, I'd be very surprised.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Stormcrown

[Delightful]

There's a WoB somewhere that WoK is the story of "Shallans first apprenticeship" so it's entirely possible she won't have a lot to do with Jasnah. It really depends on what both their current goals are, and wether their paths will even cross, if, say Shallans goes off looking for her brothers while Jasnah runs around researching or comes to find Dalinar. Or Jasnah might seek out Shallan, feeling responsible for her. I'm not sure which way I think it will go.

[Aleksiel]

I don't see Jasnah as the type of person who'd do that. She won't take over anything, she'll want to find out what Shallan knows and works on, certainly. 

 

Though I wonder if Shallan will tell Jasnah about the Ghostbloods. My guess is no and that will be the center of their future conflict. Jasnah won't take it well and probably not in the right way if she is to discover on her own that Shallan conspires with her enemies. I don't think Pattern will approve of Shallan lying also, though I can't be certain.

[NeutroniumAlchemist he/him]

I don't think Jasnah will blame Shallan for the choices she made, she is a creature of logic after all and Shallan did achieve her goals for her for which she will be grateful. The (possible) issue is the Ghostbloods and if Shallan decides to side/join with them as veil before Jasnah and Shallan are reunited, then i see a problem. 

[kari-no-sugata]

So, its obvious that Jasnah will come to Shallan and they will meet in Book 3.

 

I certainly expect Jasnah and Shallan to meet sooner or later and there's certainly various possibilities for tension between them but it's possible it might not happen until near the end of the book. Last we see Jasnah in WoR one of the things she says is: "If it's not happening as it did before, then everything I know could be false. The words of the highspren could be inaccurate. The records I seek could be meaningless."

 

Before this scene Jasnah was hoping to find records in Urithru but that may not necessarily be the case now. For example, what if she learned (among other things) from the Highspren that the Shin have detailed records on ancient history? We don't know for sure whether Jasnah will aim to get those records still or not but from a story telling point of view it would certainly be quite interesting for Jasnah to head to Shinovar

 

Though even if that happens, Jasnah and Shallan could meet before then: we have no idea where on Roshar Jasnah is but if she's in the east and wants to get to Shinovar the smartest choice may be to go to the Shattered Plains, use the Oathgate there and try to open a gate to the Oathgate nearest to Shinovar (from inside Urithru). We don't know whether that's possible or not though.

 

I have this separate idea of some crisis developing in Urithru late in book 3 (maybe Amaram tries to take control for example) while there's still only one Oathgate open - if someone can lock the Stormseat one then those in Urithru are a bit screwed. Just when it seems hopeless Jasnah figures out how to open an Oathgate from outside Urithru and comes in to save the day and that's how Shallan and Jasnah meet again.

[kaellok he/him]

Honestly, I reject the premise that it's "obvious" that Jasnah will travel to meet with Shallan.  It really depends on where she actually is.  Due to Urithiru's remote location, there's not necessarily a pressing need for her to be there when she could, for instance, be helping to deal with the uprising in Alethkar (or any of a thousand other things that need doing).  Eventually they will meet again, sure, but I really do not see anything to be gained by her rushing there.  Jasnah's absence has proven that others are as capable as she is, and so she can focus on other priorities and leave Urithiru in their capable hands.

 

That there's likely to be tension between the two when they first reunite, however, seems fairly clear; at least until they determine what kind of relationship they still want from each other.  I doubt it's going to work out well if either of them is wanting Jasnah to remain in the mentor role, but colleagues/friends will likely serve them both very well.

[Stormcrown]

I mean, I don't think its proven that "others" can, I think it was proven that she chose wisely with Shallan...

[signspace13 he/him]

I find it fairly likely that when they do meet, whenever that is, there will be quite a few tears directly relating to the "OH MY ALMIGHTY YOUR ALIVE" reaction that I'm sure a few poeple will have, then to be closely followed by tears from at least Navani. 

 

I personally think Jasnah will put the "I'm dead" thing to good use, as everyone think this is the case we will likely see her do some undercover work, or not, it doesn't really seem to in character for Jasnah, but I wouldn't pass the opportunity to lay low for awhile if everyone thought I was dead (especially if I knew poeple wanted me to stay that way). 

 

I think we may see a resumption of the master apprentice thing though except now Shallan has some new secrets, I say this because someone has to teach Shallan to Soulcast, and Jasnah is the only person who can do that. but once that is done i feel they will see each other as closer to equals, given all that shallan has accomplished in Jasnah's absence.

 

Their main conflict will occur if Shallan takes the offer to join the Ghostbloods, which I find almost certain. I say this because the Jasnah and the Ghostbloods obviously have a rivalry going on. I mean they did kill her (sought of). Shallan will not pass up that chance and if she does i will be seriously disappointed because she worked so hard to get in.

 

well that's my to cents, or more like 10 cents... but whatever. 

Edited May 11, 2014 by signspace13

[kari-no-sugata]

Here's an interesting thought (Just one possibility among many): Jasnah could find herself jealous of Shallan when they meet again. Jasnah has found herself in a rather lonely position in her brilliance, as her father rather bluntly told her. Meanwhile, Shallan is doing impressive stuff and is likely to do a lot more - and things like saving the army is likely to be a lot more popular than writing some books or declaring yourself an atheist. It's an intriguing possibility... though if it does happen I'd then be expecting things to all go horrible wrong for Shallan

 

 

Their main conflict will occur if Shallan takes the offer to join the Ghostbloods, which I find almost certain. I say this because the Jasnah and the Ghostbloods obviously have a rivalry going on. I mean they did kill her (sought of). Shallan will not pass up that chance and if she does i will be seriously disappointed because she worked so hard to get in.

 

I'm pretty sure Shallan would prefer not to join the Ghostbloods. She wasn't wanting to - just wanted to try to get some information out of them to help save the world. She didn't want to be found out by them. She doesn't like how they operate either. She was all ready to chop up Mraize for even slightly threatening her brothers but since they're now in his hands effectively, she's not in a position to refuse (from her point of view). I doubt that Mraize will lean on her too much initially but will slowly turn the screws. I also doubt he'll just simply delivery Shallan's brothers to her unless he's absolutely convinced that she is committed.

 

I could easily see Shallan being publicly lauded more and more but inside she's becoming more and more conflicted. Will she have to sacrifice her brothers for the "greater good"?

[kari-no-sugata]

I find it fairly likely that when they do meet, whenever that is, there will be quite a few tears directly relating to the "OH MY ALMIGHTY YOUR ALIVE" reaction that I'm sure a few poeple will have, then to be closely followed by tears from at least Navani.

 

Just a quick comment on this: I think Shallan will figure out how Jasnah could have survived before it's actually confirmed. After all, Shallan did do some smart thinking to figure out that Jasnah is a true Soulcaster at the end of tWoK - I think Shallan hasn't figured out how yet because she doesn't want to think about Jasnah's death too much, she's been really busy and it's only by the end of WoR that she has all the info required to figure it out. Namely:

1. That Jasnah could have survived being stabbed through the heart. Shallan had no idea until part 4 (after dropping into the chasms) that her healing abilities are so strong. She even comments to Dalinar in part 5 that she could probably survive being stabbed with a spear.
2. That Jasnah is an Elsecaller and that the Transportation Surge could allow her to escape. Shallan knows that she and Jasnah share the Transformation Surge but Jasnah never says what her other Surge is. Shallan should be able to figure this after reading the in-world Words of Radiance book, though if she has already we haven't seen it.
3. That it wasn't the assassins who moved Jasnah's body. At the time, Shallan thinks that the reason why she didn't trip over Jasnah's body in the cabin is that the assassins took the body with them (it's the only logical thing she could think at the time). However, if she thinks through 1 and 2 above she may decide to question Pattern (who she's sent to go investigate) as to whether he saw Jasnah's body. Strictly speaking she might not need confirmation about this but it would help.

However, even if Shallan realises all this she'd then have to question why Jasnah hasn't returned yet - Shallan might well doubt her own analysis.

[kari-no-sugata]

Mmm. I just had fun idea for a scene: Shallan is meeting up with Mraize. Things have been getting increasingly tense between them. Jasnah has returned. Mraize bluntly threatens Shallan's brothers to make Shallan betray Jasnah. Shallan quietly responds "No" - Shallan really respects Jasnah yet betrayed her once before and is very unlikely to ever want to betray Jasnah again. Tension fills the air. Shallan is in the Ghostbloods' lair and is surrounded by enemies, alone. Harmless. Someone tries to poison her with a dart/arrow. It bounces off!

 

Shallan is wearing full Shardplate but disguised herself to look like she's wearing her normal clothes

[Stormcrown]

That would be a pretty awesome scene Kari.

 

Also, really good points above. Once Shallan learns that Jasnah has the Transportation surge, she probably will figure it she might be alive.

 

I'm actually super interested in if the Elsecallers had a purpose, like the Skybreakers or Windrunners.

 

Have we figured out where Shardplate comes from?

[kari-no-sugata]

That would be a pretty awesome scene Kari.

Thanks

I just had to write that down as soon as I could...

 

Also, really good points above. Once Shallan learns that Jasnah has the Transportation surge, she probably will figure it she might be alive.

 

I'm actually super interested in if the Elsecallers had a purpose, like the Skybreakers or Windrunners.

 

Have we figured out where Shardplate comes from?

 

Elsecallers seemed to masters of Shadesmar at least. Might well be best at Transformation Surge.

 

We don't have any real idea where Shardplate comes from (and for scene idea above I was expecting Shallan to borrow it). I don't know when we might see new sets get made but it might be a while unless it's relatively easy when you know how (which I suspect not). I hope to see Shallan apprentice to Navani in the next book and see her learn about fabrials and try to investigate Shardplate. I can easily see Shallan wanting to wear Shardplate as a test - and asking Adolin for his set and teasing him the whole time.