Tien and His rocks theory

[Pathfinder]

Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but I have a theory that the reason Tien sees faces in the rocks is that he is a stone shaman, and he is possibly half shin (whether by adoption, or extra marital affair), due to him being only a year younger than kaladin but looks much younger. 

[A Joe in the Bush]

I'm pretty certain that the stone shamans aren't a Genetic thing, but more like a Job. And Hesina, (Tien's Mom) was extremely Devout. Not to mention (Oh, wait, I'm mentioning it!) the fact that Shin blood would be pretty obvious.

 

Not everything in Roshar is magically influenced. when I was a kid, I was obsessed with Rocks. Good idea though.

[Kobold King he/him]

I'm pretty certain that the stone shamans aren't a Genetic thing, but more like a Job. And Hesina, (Tien's Mom) was extremely Devout. Not to mention (Oh, wait, I'm mentioning it!) the fact that Shin blood would be pretty obvious.

 

Not everything in Roshar is magically influenced. when I was a kid, I was obsessed with Rocks. Good idea though.

 

Maybe we have it all wrong. Maybe Shin attributes--young appearance and rock obsession--aren't genetic or cultural at all. Maybe they're a side effect of another factor, one we haven't seen. It is the difference between a correlation and causation.

 

Granted, rocks are cool things and many children are entranced by them. I just wanted to throw an alternative hypothesis out there.

[RShara she/her]

Q:  [Not sure on this] Is there something important about the stone, and the girl that's missing that has to do kind of with the stone, and how Tien gives him rocks?

A:  Some of that you're reading too much into, but something is real.  I'm not going to tell you what is what.  But there's definitely something about that.

[Seloun]

Given how Kaladin describes and directly compares Shallan (post-Chasm) with Tien, I figure Tien was a proto-Lightweaver. Tien's creativity appears to express itself through sculpture rather and drawing like Shallan (e.g. the wooden horse figurine). I don't think Tien specifically sees faces in rocks (Kaladin is the one that actually describes internally that the rock looks like a smiling face); rather, he's good at seeing patterns in rocks and is essentially able to express his feelings by finding the appropriate rock. Sort of like sculpting, except finding the rock that looks right rather than making a rock look right. Note also that Kaladin sees the smiling face, and it makes him smile too; this seems very similar to how Shallan 'changes' people with her drawings.

 

Tien's interest in rocks is also similar to Shallan's interest in natural sciences; her obsession is flora and fauna while Tien's is geological. They have pretty similar artistic temperament and have a similar ability to cheer people up (well, at least Kaladin specifically). Proto-Lightweaver seems like a safe bet.

 

Assuming this is the case, there would be an interesting parallel between the relationship between Shallan and Helaran versus Tien and Kaladin (another mirrored symmetry between the two). It'll be interesting to see if Kaladin ends up being a sort-of replacement for Helaran for Shallan (how that associates with the Shalladin ship is an exercise perhaps better left unexamined for now) or if we see her comparing Helaran with Kaladin. It would also potentially be another example of surgebinding proclivity having a strong genetic component (if Shallan, Helaran, Tien, Kaladin, Dalinar and Renarin all are/potentially were surgebinders, we'd have three examples of surgebinding apparently running in families).

[Delightful]

I don't quite buy that he has Shin blood, but I'm fairly certain there IS something special about the rocks - maybe the formation of crem layers are significant or something? Zahel also seems to have a thing for special rocks and its unlike Brandon to have that as a coincidence.

It would be really cool if Shallan and Kaladin become like siblings for each other (thus avoiding a love triangle), however Kaladin having actually killed Helaran might throw a spanner in the works there.

Imagine Kal as a kid trying to protect Shallan's family :'(

[Pathfinder]

That is why I think there is something more to this, like you said your self it is seldom for Brandon to have a coincidence. On two to three separate occasions it is mentioned how Tien is just a year younger than Kal, but everyone sees him as childish. It is mentioned two or three times how shin look childish. I could accept this as just Tien acting young and such, but then Brandon could have made him any age. Why bring up 3 times how he is only a YEAR YOUNGER but looks so much younger? As I type this it occurs to me that it is to show Kaladin's enforced maturity at so young, but that still feels like a stretch. Outsiders have commented on how shin oathstones seem worthless to everyone else. That there seems to be nothing special about them, and yet a shin warrior can identify his own from countless others. Even if he is not shin, like Kobold King said, there could be something going on with stone shamanism causing these appearances. 

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

Could Tien's fascination have anything to do with this?

 

 

"Parasaphi," Renarin said. "She's the one who searched out the seedstones."

"Yes," Navani replied. "In order to repopulate her fallen people, she climbed the peaks of Dara-they myth changes listing different modern mountain ranges as the true peaks of Dara-to find stones touched by the Heralds themselves. She brought them to Nadris on his deathbed and harvested his seed to bring life to the stones. They hatched forth ten children which she used to found a new nation. Marnah, I believe it was called."

"Origin of the Makabaki," Renarin said.

WoK Chapter 61 Right From Wrong

 

Edited May 1, 2014 by EMTrevor

[Dihatimus]

Tien can see rockspren. Rockspren manifest as little faces on stones. Often appearing during the weeping because the wetness brings out their features more. Like licking a stone to see what it would look like if it were polished.

[Pathfinder]

Tien can see rockspren. Rockspren manifest as little faces on stones. Often appearing during the weeping because the wetness brings out their features more. Like licking a stone to see what it would look like if it were polished.

 

Do you have anything to verify that, or that is your interpretation? Just so I am on the same page. 

[Delightful]

I'm pretty sure that's a joke

[Pathfinder]

Ahhhhh, good thing I checked then lolol

[Shardmancer he/him]

This is an intresting theory.. but I do think sometimes Sanderson put characters that are not special. Obvious Tien has a huge signifigance and affects Kaladin in a major way but I dont believe he had to manifest powers or someone have abilites. I believe there probably something special about the Planet rather than the people. Setting is a major factor in this book especially in nature (as per spren) involvment in all aspects. These rocks just symbolize how everything has soul and essense much like in Japan (shintoism) but some people are more adept at understanding this and being able to see these things in nature, The closet ill go on this is Tien is like a mini-rock in seeing spren.

[Kobold King he/him]

This is an intresting theory.. but I do think sometimes Sanderson put characters that are not special. Obvious Tien has a huge signifigance and affects Kaladin in a major way but I dont believe he had to manifest powers or someone have abilites. I believe there probably something special about the Planet rather than the people. Setting is a major factor in this book especially in nature (as per spren) involvment in all aspects. These rocks just symbolize how everything has soul and essense much like in Japan (shintoism) but some people are more adept at understanding this and being able to see these things in nature, The closet ill go on this is Tien is like a mini-rock in seeing spren.

 

I only just now realized the similarity between the words "Shinto" and "Shin".

[Jaaxter he/him]

Given how Kaladin describes and directly compares Shallan (post-Chasm) with Tien, I figure Tien was a proto-Lightweaver. 

 

While I really like the parallels you draw in the latter half of the post, I cannot see Tien as someone who would attract a Cryptic. Tien is a simple, childish (in a good way), open, honest, cheerful person. While we suspect that Cryptics may be drawn to potential as well as actual lies, (since Pattern manifested as a shardblade BEFORE all of the [listed] incidents that led Shallan to build a complex web of lies around herself) I simply cannot see Tien as that sort of person.

 

Granted, I may be slightly biased in my reading of this, since my own younger brother is almost exactly like Tien in a lot of ways and I could NEVER see him as a Cryptic-attracting person. If we are going to point fingers at a KR order for him, I would say possibly Edgedancers (because of compassion), but I am more inclined to agree with those who say Tien was likely a mundane.

[Aleksiel]

While I really like the parallels you draw in the latter half of the post, I cannot see Tien as someone who would attract a Cryptic. Tien is a simple, childish (in a good way), open, honest, cheerful person. While we suspect that Cryptics may be drawn to potential as well as actual lies, (since Pattern manifested as a shardblade BEFORE all of the [listed] incidents that led Shallan to build a complex web of lies around herself) I simply cannot see Tien as that sort of person.

 

Granted, I may be slightly biased in my reading of this, since my own younger brother is almost exactly like Tien in a lot of ways and I could NEVER see him as a Cryptic-attracting person. If we are going to point fingers at a KR order for him, I would say possibly Edgedancers (because of compassion), but I am more inclined to agree with those who say Tien was likely a mundane.

 

Don't take for granted lies are what attracts Cryptic. There's no proof Shallan was a liar before she killed her mother, only that she drew. Lightweavers are about honesty after all and what Pattern seemed to consider lies were mostly figures of speech and metaphors. Creativity is their leading trait and Tien's sculptures fit well. There's a nice thread on on the importance of attributes, which allows Tien to be proto-Lightweaver without him being a liar like Shallan.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Pathfinder]

Don't take for granted lies are what attracts Cryptic. There's no proof Shallan was a liar before she killed her mother, only that she drew. Lightweavers are about honesty after all and what Pattern seemed to consider lies were mostly figures of speech and metaphors. Creativity is their leading trait and Tien's sculptures fit well. There's a nice thread on on the importance of attributes, which allows Tien to be proto-Lightweaver without him being a liar like Shallan.

I will definitely check out the thread because what you posit is interesting. In the meantime I did want to state how I find it funny/awesome how a good portion of the current threads on the boards involve "will so and so become a knights radiant?". Its like one giant game of who done it and everyone has a theory lol

[Dihatimus]

Do you have anything to verify that, or that is your interpretation? Just so I am on the same page. 

 

The best jokes are the ones told with a straight face. There was no mention of rockspren.

[qqemonte he/him]

This is a crazy theory I'll just throw out of the blue.. what if Tien is alive... he managed to secretly bond with a spren.. made a stone sculpture of himself and turning it into an illusion.. but a stronger illusion than lightweaving since it's made of something more physical.. and the Tien that died was just an illusion... Why didn't Tien tell Kaladin he is alive?... maybe he thinks himself as a burden... I don't know... but with flashback chapters... this can be explained... and if I'm not wrong.. the next book is entitled  "STONES" Unhallowed... I admit this is extreme overstretch... lol

[maxal she/her]

This is a crazy theory I'll just throw out of the blue.. what if Tien is alive... he managed to secretly bond with a spren.. made a stone sculpture of himself and turning it into an illusion.. but a stronger illusion than lightweaving since it's made of something more physical.. and the Tien that died was just an illusion... Why didn't Tien tell Kaladin he is alive?... maybe he thinks himself as a burden... I don't know... but with flashback chapters... this can be explained... and if I'm not wrong.. the next book is entitled  "STONES" Unhallowed... I admit this is extreme overstretch... lol

 

Tien being alive would be an anti-climax of the worst sort. We all felt for him when he was so rudely killed. We all cried for poor Kaladin who was powerless to stop it. Tien's death is a defining moment for Kaladin both as a person and as a future Radiant. Therefore, if Tien ends up NOT being dead after all those years, well, let just say it would be unbelievably frustrating to read.

 

However, I would love for Shallan and Kaladin to develop a brother/sister relationship, Shallan being Kal's new Tien and Kal being Shallan's new Helaran.

[Kobold King he/him]

However, I would love for Shallan and Kaladin to develop a brother/sister relationship, Shallan being Kal's new Tien and Kal being Shallan's new Helaran.

 

That concept speaks more to me than any Shalladin ship argument ever has. Have an upvote, sul.

[maxal she/her]

That concept speaks more to me than any Shalladin ship argument ever has. Have an upvote, sul.

 

Glad to see I am not the only one to feel this way

[signspace13 he/him]

Tien being alive would be an anti-climax of the worst sort. We all felt for him when he was so rudely killed. We all cried for poor Kaladin who was powerless to stop it. Tien's death is a defining moment for Kaladin both as a person and as a future Radiant. Therefore, if Tien ends up NOT being dead after all those years, well, let just say it would be unbelievably frustrating to read.

 

However, I would love for Shallan and Kaladin to develop a brother/sister relationship, Shallan being Kal's new Tien and Kal being Shallan's new Helaran.

I find that unlikely if you can remember the scene where Shallan snap's at Adolin for saying he wants to protect her. This seems the greatest barrier to the Shalladin ship at the moment, if Shallan won't let Kal protect her then they are going to have a hard time seeing eye to eye.

[Delightful]

I find that unlikely if you can remember the scene where Shallan snap's at Adolin for saying he wants to protect her. This seems the greatest barrier to the Shalladin ship at the moment, if Shallan won't let Kal protect her then they are going to have a hard time seeing eye to eye.

I don't remember exactly but I feel like there was a quote somewhere that indicated Kal wouldn't be overprotective of Shallan. Does anyone else know what I'm talking about? In the chasms, maybe?

[maxal she/her]

I don't remember exactly but I feel like there was a quote somewhere that indicated Kal wouldn't be overprotective of Shallan. Does anyone else know what I'm talking about? In the chasms, maybe?

 

Kal motto is to protect people. I therefore cannot see him not wanting to protect Shallan if they ever get into a relationship. He would never be able to let it go as this is what Kal do: protect people no matter the circumstances.