Theory: Hoid is (related to) the Cognitive aspect of Adonalsium

[WolfBro87 he/him]

Okay first I'd like to say this probably should be called a Hypothesis rather then a Theory, but I don't think many here will be overly upset at the title.  I have very little evidence (if any, but you judge for yourself) that supports this, and truthfully I fully expect to be proven wrong as we learn more about Sanderson's Shadesmar/Cosmere Metaseries, as I like to call it.  But this thought has been bouncing around in my head for the past couple of days and I'd really like to see what others think of it.

So lets start with a quote.

In response to Kaladin asking Hoid's name, he says:

"I've many."..."I began life as a thought, a concept, words on a page.  That was another thing I stole.  Myself.  Another time, I was named for a rock."

All of that is very interesting, as is what he says later in response to Kaladin's continued questioning, but what I want to talk about is what I put in bold.

When Hoid said he began life as a thought, the first thing I immediately thought of was the Cognitive Realm and how the Shards had to acquire humans to be their minds.  We see this with Ati, Leras, and Vin for sure in the Mistborn series, and the Way of Kings provides names for many others.

Its pretty clear from Mistborn, Warbreaker, and now the Way of Kings that the Shards of Adonalsium are incredibly powerful, often treated as Gods by the people of their respective planets.  And if they are in fact pieces of something greater, as is implied in the fact that they are called Shards of Adonalsium, then it should be fairly obvious that Adonalsium was something even more powerful, something closer to a God in the traditional sense I think.  Something with a mind.

But as we've seen, the Shards need people to act as their minds.  Which begs the question where did the Cognitive aspect of Adonalsium go?  Perhaps as a result of the Shattering its mind was separated as well.  Perhaps that mind eventually went to become the entity we know as Hoid.

Now aside from that one line, and the odd fact that the Shards of Adonalsium need people to be their Cognitive aspect, I have no real evidence for this.  In fact there is no evidence that Adonalsium even had a mind, it might well have been an object of great power.  I don't believe this, but I figured it might be good to point out the obvious flaws in the random idea that popped into my head.

EDIT:  I've actually come across some evidence that makes this idea less likely.  If Hoid is in fact the author of the epigraphs then it would be very strange for the Cognitive aspect of Adonalsium to have known Rayse on a personal level to the point where he has a grudge against him as the epigraphs suggest he does, since Rayse was presumably a human being the same as Vin, Leras, and Ati were.

[Chaos he/him]

As for the name being "Theory", yeah, I know, it's not scientifically accurate. Alas. I think we'll live.

Yet, as for the theory itself, I, um... I can't comment. Not because I have all the answers, because I sure as heck don't. But I did read one of his unpublished novels which goes into detail about Realmatic Theory, certainly a lot more than we've seen before. And I don't feel right divulging such things.

Just know that I don't really know very much. This guess is as good as any.

I can, however, comment on Adonalsium, because that wasn't mentioned in the aforementioned unpublished thing I referred to. I'm just as in the dark as you all. Okay.

The real question is, does primordial Adonalsium pre-Shattering have a Cognitive aspect? It would be certainly logical for it to. Unless, of course, Adonalsium as a whole is just a manifestation of power, without a mind.

I don't know. I'm just rambling now. (I do that a lot, for future notice)

[Silus - Shard of Flame he/him]

I think this makes sense.  But perhaps not in quite the sense that one might think it does.

Maybe Hoid was a human who received a part of Adonalsium, just as Ati, Leras, Rayse and the others did, but not an aspect of physical power, but its mind.  Resulting in a sort of amalgam between the human he was and the mind of god that intertwined with him.  This would allow him to know the other Shards on that personal level, yet still have the cognitive aspect of Adonalsium.

Didn't Brandon say somewhere that Hoid used the Shadesmar to planethop?

This would give Hoid that drive to achieve whatever it is he's trying to do. Maybe put Adonalsium back together?  That's what I'm thinking.  If you were a disembodied mind with your body scattered in pieces, wouldn't you want to put yourself back together?

[jacobfake]

the "named for a rock, a beatiful rock" part seems a clear reference to the way shardholders are named for their shards. if hoid was a shardholder it seems unlikely he was part of adonalsium since he would have been one of the guys who recieved the shards at the shattering. also, i believe i read on TWG that brandon said that the Hoid appearing throughout the stories is really the apprentice of the guy who was the real Hoid. Just something else to consider

[Link Von Kelsier Harvey he/him]

the "named for a rock, a beatiful rock" part seems a clear reference to the way shardholders are named for their shards. if hoid was a shardholder it seems unlikely he was part of adonalsium since he would have been one of the guys who recieved the shards at the shattering. also, i believe i read on TWG that brandon said that the Hoid appearing throughout the stories is really the apprentice of the guy who was the real Hoid. Just something else to consider

Well, hmm... the real Hoid...  More like the first Hoid from whom OUR Hoid stole his name.  So when we say Hoid, we are, unless otherwise stated, talking about the second Hoid, who seems to be the important one.  As for being named after a rock, I can't think of a way to get a rock to fit into the Shard's naming conventions.  Unless the Shards are all secretly ROCKS???  <- Unlikely.

[jacobfake]

haha no not literally- it's just the sort of diminutive reference hoid would make. like in reference to a shardblade one might say "yeah i had a cool knife." shard of adonalsium = "pretty rock"  from the dictionary on my computer, shard: piece of broken ceramic, metal, glass, or rock, typically having sharp edges.

[Silus - Shard of Flame he/him]

the "named for a rock, a beatiful rock" part seems a clear reference to the way shardholders are named for their shards. if hoid was a shardholder it seems unlikely he was part of adonalsium since he would have been one of the guys who recieved the shards at the shattering. also, i believe i read on TWG that brandon said that the Hoid appearing throughout the stories is really the apprentice of the guy who was the real Hoid. Just something else to consider

Uh, can we get a reference on the second Hoid thing?

[Munin he/him]

the "named for a rock, a beatiful rock" part seems a clear reference to the way shardholders are named for their shards. if hoid was a shardholder it seems unlikely he was part of adonalsium since he would have been one of the guys who recieved the shards at the shattering. also, i believe i read on TWG that brandon said that the Hoid appearing throughout the stories is really the apprentice of the guy who was the real Hoid. Just something else to consider

Uh, can we get a reference on the second Hoid thing?

I believe it's from Liar of Partinel.

[mycoltbug]

Warning this is quotes from an unpublished book, you may not understand all the references

Yes, here are a couple of Quotes I'll give:

[Chaos he/him]

Are those from the Liar sample chapters? If so, we can cite them. If they are from the actual book (to those extremely rare people who have read it), we shouldn't reveal such information.

[mycoltbug]

Sample chapters.

[Chaos he/him]

Cool, that's what I thought.

I should probably whip up some guidelines for these sorts of things...

[lordofsoup]

He has to have some sort of unnatural power.  He seems to know about Kaladin and stealing his stormlight, even though he says he is refering to bridgemen being thieves.  I dont think this is buy chance.  However I am confused, why he does not do anything when Talenal shows up at the end.

[Zas678 he/him]

I think the fact that he is there is significant. He seems to know things that other people only guess at. I bet he will help lead Talenal to wherever he needs to go, then subtly disappear.

[Emeralis00 she/her]

Didn't Brandon say somewhere that Hoid used the Shadesmar to planethop?

http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=7292.0

around 12-13 posts down.  Its not exactly mentioned that HOID uses shadesmar to planet hop but...

would make even more sense if Shadesmar is the cognitive realm.

[Ari he/him]

Hoid's reference to being named for a pretty rock could also be a subtle reference to gold or pyrite, given that the name Midius has a certain resemblance to the name Midas, who turned everything he touched to gold.

[happyman he/him]

My guess?  It's part of his backstory that we haven't heard yet.

Far out there, I know.  But there's so little we do know that this seems much more likely.

[mycoltbug]

There is a backstory. In an unpublished book he refers to himself as a rock. I'm not allowed to say what book or what name though. Chaos and LinkvanHarvey can confirm if you need it. But there are a few of us who know what the rock is and the name.  Sorry don't mean to rub it in, but it is out there just not available to everyone.

[Link Von Kelsier Harvey he/him]

Mycoltbug speaks the truth.

[Odium]

Ok I don't get it, are the people who have read the full unpubished version of Liar part of a test group or whats going on here? I read the sample chapters but I had assumed that was all he had written so far. But apparently there is a full manuscript? The story seemed intriguing even beyond information on Hoid.

[Andrew the Great he/him]

Apparently if you look hard enough, you can find all of liar, though I have yet to meet anyone who has actually found all of it this way.

The chapters of Liar were posted way back when Brandon was still not particularly big, and Liar itself apparently didn't turn out great. He finished it, but wasn't pleased with it, so he shelved until further notice.

Most of Brandon's unpublished stuff, you can ask him for and he'll let you read it. Liar is a rare exception, so far as I'm aware.

[mycoltbug]

Liar is not readily available for anyone at this point. The book I'm referring to is Dragonsteel. Which was at BYU and maybe there now.

[Andrew the Great he/him]

I didn't think Peter and/or Brandon had sent them a new copy of it yet.....yet another thing to look into when I head over there tonight......

[Kykeon]

I thought that was almost accepted doctrine?!

Edited October 16, 2012 by Kykeon

[Chaos he/him]

It's important to note, guys, that Dragonsteel was written a long time ago in Brandon's career. He's said it's a mediocre book more recently. And I can vouch for this. It's only interesting for cosmology stuff.

I've never met anyone who has read all of Liar. Brandon's said that book spoils too much. Sad day for us hunters, because we don't get to see it. But eventually, we will see it, and it will be a much better book. Come on, look how much he's improved since the Wheel of Time. It's gonna be a great book when it comes out.

I'll still pout about not reading it now, though