jacobfake

If you're not cheating, you're not trying.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the tin-foil hat was underneath the hat he took off, and then he put Wayne's hat back over it. ^ Also in-line with Wax's 'the hostages are secret allomancers' theory, soothers and rioters would be the most likely to keep their powers secret, and are also the ones that the aluminum hats protect from, so if their gathering a bunch of emotional allomancers but haven't killed them (yet), then the aluminum hats would make a lot of sense as without them, a cooperative effort would be sure to turn at least one bandit to the allomancers' side. On the hemalurgy theory, what exactly is the end game? Just a more powerful army? Also I'm pretty sure the most powerful spikes would actually come from the most powerful allomancers, for example the constable of the 8th guard who volunteered to be a hostage but who they instead shot. Hemalurgy does fit because it would blow everyone's mind in the book while just doing something that's already been established for mistborn readers, but there would definitely be a lot more to their plan.

The power itself can still be put to use via hemalurgy too.

Wow I don't even know how the OP gave birth to the mutated child that was page 2 ^^, but if anyone still cares about the coolest combo thing, I think an electrum misting/ zinc feruchemist would be cool assuming I'm not one of Brandon's characters, as it would basically make me a god as long as I didn't have to fight anyone (i.e. business decisions, romance decision, any decision at all would basically be me just winning.)

The Koloss blood/ aluminum hat theory does fit together nicely. I'm pretty certain Wax was not speaking metaphorically when he said Koloss blood. The guy's probably just like a small mean Hagrid. -One thing, though, is that anyone with Koloss blood is almost guaranteed to be from the roughs, which brings up the possibility that all of the bandits are from the roughs, meaning the bandit leader might be framing it to his men as a class conflict, roughs vs nobles type of thing; an ideology is usually necessary to raise an army, which someone has argued the stolen food and allomantic metals would suggest, so this could be that ideology, as he definitely spouts some of it off when he's talking to Lord Peterus. Also, has anybody brought up the possibility that the hostages could be used as ransom/ leverage? If he's gearing up for some sort of large scale conflict, Mr. Vanisher might be trying to get a few noble houses under his thumb, so to speak.

Not if it shows up in the form of Hoid using it, which is pretty much the only way it could show up in the theory that he swallowed it. If it did, it would be major for everyone who has read mistborn because they would recognize the power, but for those who haven't it would just be another of Hoid's undescribed powers. It wouldn't confuse them any more than the way he told the story to Kaladin, in other words they would just accept it and nobody would be confused and mistborn would still hardly be required reading, and it would be a plot point in the overall cosmere storyline but still minor in way of kings. (at least the element part; however he used it would be important, but those who haven't read mistborn wouldn't be very likely to connect it to the element.) That's definitely a better way of phrasing the question, I hardly read that much into it before, but allomancers still get trace metals just by eating and drinking from silverware and the minerals in the water, (there are definitely examples of people using limited versions of their powers without realizing it in mistborn) so they wouldn't be completely powerless, and as for getting the specific mixtures right they would have at least a 1000 years to figure it out and as long as they got it anywhere in there it would have a pretty big effect. Also, you seem to be assuming that whoever got the Lerasium would be fighting on the good guys' side. If Szeth or Taravangian or the Ghostbloods got it they would be able to use it pretty effectively, especially since if it goes to someone smart they'll notice it and not just superstitiously accept it, and start trying to figure out how it works. Every generation that passes exponentially increases the chances of somebody working it out. Also, any merchant that discovered it anywhere along the way would make use of it even if the last desolation had already come. It seems unlikely that the addressee's nonintervention policy applies exclusively to fighting evil shardholders like Odium. Furthermore, the circumstances that make it less effective would also make it multiple times as effective once somebody figured it out. The soldiers would not be equipped at all to deal with it, and if it was a coinshot he could kill tons of them. Also, the addressee could have been concerned about Hoid losing it back on Scadrial, or on any other of the worlds he goes to. Even if the thousand years might be able to pass without any of these happening, it certainly seems like enough for the addressee to be worried.

i thought i addressed all those reasons in my first post though. What did I miss/ what did I get wrong? and I feel like we already discussed whether or not it could be used but maybe that was another thread. The Elantrian's magic wouldn't work as in the novel it gets weaker as they move farther away from the city but that's because the ruins act as floodgates to let Aona's power in, so the power isn't actually in the Elantrians. Atium and Lerasium, however, are the physical bodies of Ati and Leras. Ati was unable to weild his power without the atium reserves because his power was literally taken away from him and put into the atium beads. if we infer that the same was true of Leras' body put into Lerasium beads then they are literally parts of his body (/what used to be his body) and therefore have their own power anywhere. The reason the Nobles and Skaa have their genetic makeup changed is because when the Lord Ruler remade the world he made the Skaa shorter and hardier for work in the fields, and made the nobles taller and fairer skinned (+ other changes listed in the book). I believe Brandon said what you referred to before the Mistborn series was complete, which is why it was significant at the time. And it making sense if he made the element a part of him is exactly why I think it was Lerasium and he swallowed it.

Everything does serve a purpose, but 3 of 16 could easily be cut to just "Only the Broken One reigns now" or something like that, similarly Skai and Aona could be cut to something like "He's killed other Gods and shattered their power." The concrete examples certainly do a better job of storytelling, but he draws them all from the overlying theme of the Cosmere without actually explaining it solidly in any of the books because it gives his hardcore fans an extra something to make it really cool for them. Similarly, the element doesn't need to be later explained to serve a purpose here. It helps establish hoid as an actual player in the cosmos, and furthermore that he hasn't just undertaken a quest here but has played a role before. It adds context that he actively takes part, and enhance him as a power figure instead of just a talker, and to add context of an ongoing relationship between him and the addressee, and that although the addressee goes for nonintervention, he is interested enough to want this element safe. Sure, all of these things could be accomplished without the line about the element, but they're accomplished more effectively by adding another thing the reader doesn't understand about the universe, just like the other cosmere references. And I doubt the addressee is worried about the element being used against him specifically. If he was trying to eliminate threats to himself, then I'm pretty sure Odium would be like number 1 on the list. However, he has a specific desire for nonintervention, which is exactly why he would want to make sure Lerasium is kept safe, considering that leaving 1000 years of allomancers on Roshar would probably qualify as intervention.

but in WoK it's barely even mentioned, and it's definitely not given more attention than stuff like "3 of 16 ruled" or the mention of Sel and Ati and Skai etc. There are plenty of things that don't really make sense without general knowledge of the Cosmere, it's just that none of them are given any significant amount of attention so that it'll be easy for an unfamiliar reader to read the book without noticing them, especially since all the people who are ever even going to be doing this line by line analysis probably have already read the other books. And as long as Hoid swallowed the Lerasium, which is pretty much what any argument that that's what it is entails, there wouldn't ever be a Surgebinder v Allomancer fight, since Brandon's already said that Hoid has tons of power of his own, and although I don't have the link to that thread (I'm pretty sure it was on timewasters) handy, his constant planet hopping and extensive knowledge evidence this plenty. The only way we would actually see it in the story line would be in the same way he uses the fire to tell that story to Kaladin. I've read some people speculating this is the same magic system from an unpublished book, though I don't remember off hand whether it was Liar or Dragon (sadly I haven't read either). That makes it furthermore an example that Brandon would in fact do something like this, and even if it's not that magic system it is an example of something cool that Hoid can do and most readers don't understand, which is exactly how allomancy would show up if Hoid was referring to swallowing Lerasium. Of course, the something we haven't seen before angle is possible for almost any speculation. It just feels like the element would have gotten more attention than a single line in an epigraph if Brandon was planning on making it a central plot element

^ why though?

Well the theory that Vorinism just ascribed more and more powers to the heralds because they were the only figures with names might explain the "jezrien=stormfather thing" although it does sound like a bit of a stretch. But weren't the Heralds mortal before they accepted the swords? I'd have to look back but that was the impression I got, and if that was so then how did he become/stay stormfather after walking away from the swords? Also, Kaladin's dream could've been from the almighty the same way Dalinar's visions were, and I'm pretty sure he had that dream in a high storm. That also brings the question of why the High Storms bring the visions (if Jezrien is not a good guy) Also, the parshendi and the high storms both seem to come from the east. The High Storms really seem to have something to do with the almighty for sure, since they bring both the visions and surgebinding. And the Almighty was called a name that meant change and a high storm does shake things up. and, although they are kinda violent, people don't really get hurt that much because they stay in doors, so maybe the almighty was directly responsible for the high storms and they're like left overs of his power. He could have left Jezrien in charge, although it still also doesn't make sense if Jezrien was broken and walked away for him to go on as Storm Father. He also could have showed up with knowledge of the storms or some control and gotten the name that way. The almighty might have left some entirely different guy as the actual stormfather. Also, how exactly does the splintering of a shard work? Could the Almighty have recognized he was going to die and start the process in the hope of being able to just control it? and give some of the pieces to the Heralds, which would explain how he was able to still be around to see the Knights Radiant apparent betrayal.

haha no not literally- it's just the sort of diminutive reference hoid would make. like in reference to a shardblade one might say "yeah i had a cool knife." shard of adonalsium = "pretty rock" from the dictionary on my computer, shard: piece of broken ceramic, metal, glass, or rock, typically having sharp edges.

I think he means the Dawnshards. oh yeah haha i forgot about those. good thing that part wasn't integral to my idea. Where are the dawnshards do you think?

Actually, I think "the element" being Lerasium might work, even though when I first read that I was like 'how did you even come up with that?' First: Lerasium doesn't make sense because sure, mistborn are BA but it's not that big of a deal right? Well, although they're not a big deal on Scadrial, having someone eat Lerasium on R would be a pretty major deal. This is further supported because of the addressee's control over/association with the 17th shard + policy of non-interference because the planet hopper part puts him in a position to be very familiar with Lerasium, and the non-interference means he would definitely not want it to fall into the hands of anyone on Roshar. Also, because Hoid is writing a letter I assume he intends it to actually reach the addressee, implying they have contact so I could totally see a conversation with something like H: "Oh by the way I grabbed one of those Lerasium beads." A: "What!? You better make sure no one on Roshar eats it!" Second: It wouldn't work because Elantrian's power wanes further from Elantris. However, the way the two magic systems work is different. The Elantrians' Dor symbols act as a flood gate sort of thing, letting the power of AonDor through the symbol. This is why the Reod messed it up because the floodgate was now shaped wrong, and why all the light was like bursting through when (oh my god did I forget the main character's name?) discovered it. Lerasium, however, is literally a piece of Preservation's body and functions on it's own; mistborn don't have access to all of the shards power, just that little bit that comes with the piece that they have in them/from lerasium. Also, when asked whether shard magic wanes further from planets (I read this somewhere on this forum) he said RAFO. However, if the Elantrian thing applied to all magic, then we already would have read and found out. Third: The books don't overlap; Brandon specifically does not want Mistborn to be required reading for WoK. However, this was hardly a main part of the book, it was barely even a part of the epigraph. When Hoid was talking to Kaladin he said that his main purpose was to look for Odium (at least I assume that's who he meant, but regardless he didn't mention the element) and also, Hoid is bound to have more powers than just allomancy (hopping from planet to planet and being apparently immortal and all) so if he ends up displaying some Mistborn powers in the mix, it would hardly be necessary to go back and explain the entire magic system and it would instead make the book better by just being a totally awesome easter egg for fans who recognized it. Also, the "I protect it as I might protect my own skin, you might say." just seems way too smug for it to just mean he protects it very well. edit: this would also fit with p 202 "I realize you are probably still angry"-- perhaps the latest reason the addressee is angry is because Hoid took the Lerasium.

the "named for a rock, a beatiful rock" part seems a clear reference to the way shardholders are named for their shards. if hoid was a shardholder it seems unlikely he was part of adonalsium since he would have been one of the guys who recieved the shards at the shattering. also, i believe i read on TWG that brandon said that the Hoid appearing throughout the stories is really the apprentice of the guy who was the real Hoid. Just something else to consider

i read the theory somewhere that the Parshendi followed the chasmfiends to the shattered plains to keep killing them, specifically because they didn't want a bunch of rampaging thunderclasts attacking them, which would explain the lack of thunderclasts. Also the drawing of the voidbringer/ chasmfiend could have been like the artist saw a chasmfiend, heard the descriptions of thunderclasts (in legends) and combined them, or had descriptions of both of them because they both fought in the battle, but thought they were the same creature (was it a good enough drawing that the artist definitely saw something with his/her own eyes?) or could have heard it described both ways because they're the same creature, and that's why the merger type thing was drawn. just alt explanations. despite this chasmfiend/thunderclast theory having become extremely common, though, the one thing I can't seem to find discussion of is: What about it's implications for the other GreatShells??

one thing-- if evil and stormfather go together, why do stormlight, surgebinding, and radiants/kaladin/good go together? I guess surgebinding is neutral, but it seems odd that the Jezrien would come through killing people with the violent high storms, and yet be simultaneously giving Kaladin the power he used to escape that death. I guess this wouldn't be difficult to write around, since I'm not even sure if it's a valid objection, but the surgebinding angle is one implication to consider if Jezrien is evil and the stormfather

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/index.php/topic,144.0.html that thread^^ has some reasons why Jezrien probably needed to make some sort of deal with Odium so the Heralds could walk away. My hypothesis (I guess I won't call it a theory before I've heard responses) is that the deal he cut was to give Odium some sort of power over the shardblades (possibly with some of the thinking being "hey no need for desolations if wars over the shardblades will do even more damage". This would explain why the knights radiant then walked away from them (evil stuff in their weapons made them think the almighty had abandoned them) and would also explain why Syl reacts negatively to the shardblade now, while before the knights radiant were pretty much THE surgebinders. Also, the apparent contradiction between the knights radiant being good and also their words making Kaladin stronger, versus the shardblades feeling evil to kaladin and syl. i.e. "Radiants were good, but modern blades are bad" becomes possible. Also the line return to men the "shards they once bore" seems pretty odd, since just about all the shards still are being used by men, but if what he meant by it was "return the shards-untainted-by-odium that they once bore" then it makes more sense (i think)