Theory: Hoid wrote the letter in tWoK

[tipbruley]

I think that you could make an equally strong argument that the letter was written TO Hoid.

Here is what could have happened

The person who wrote the letter killed Rayse and became Odium. After thousands of years Odium has corrupted the writter of the letter, and he now is as bad as Rayse was. Hoid is now here to stop his friend. The 17th shard are members that seek to protect shardbearers from being destroyed (or something similiar) and now hunt Hoid.

WHY I think this makes sense.

The letter sounds like the events in Elantris had just happened, but we know Elantris was thousands of years before the events of the WoK. The letter is written by someone determined to stop Rayse, but from what we see of Hoid he seems like someone who doesn't like interfering with things. I need to look up the quote later but he tells Kaladin that he is here to "See an Old Friend, but has been putting it off". From the letter, the writer said he never liked Rayse, so I am not sure why he would reference Rayse as a friend, but it makes perfect sense for Hoid to reference the writer like that. There is also the question as to why the desolations stopped happening for so long of a time which is answered by this theory.

[Eri she/her]

But the letter sounds much like Hoid, the writer has similar sense of humour (only more subtle, but that may be because he tries to sound more serious) and... I don't know how to describe it, he writes / says things that sound really cool and nice to read. And it's not just because Sanderson writes in a cool way – not all characters sound like that. (He writes in a cool way, but it's so cool that he can have a character sound less cool )

About “my friend” – he calls Taln “friend” too, and I think they probably aren't friends or even good aquitances. I think Hoid may just have a habit of calling people this.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Isn't it confirmed that Hoid is not part of the Seventeenth Shard? In that case, why would he be able to call them off? I really don't think the letter was written TO Hoid, and I'm much fonder of that Hoid was the one who WROTE the letter.

[Triasmus]

It doesn't sound to me like the letter was written back in the distant past. The letter was only referencing the last very major event (odium killing and shattering two shards).

[Bunyod he/him]

Who is Hoid?

- He is the one who knew shard holders from before Adonalisium (spelling) has shattered to 16 pieces. That's thousands of years ago. So he lives long.

- He is the one who can travel through Worlds and can take people with him to travel.

- He is strong enough not to worry about assasination attempts to his life.

- He is the one who was present when Adonalisium shattered to 16 pieces.

- He is the one who openly tries to fight against Odium.

If I made any mistakes please correct me. And if you have something to add please do so.

Therefore, taking into consideration all of the above facts, one can assume that maybe when he saw 16 shards he was hesitant to possess one particular shard as he was afraid of responsibility and hold and released each and every one of the shards and became sliver of all?

Only this kind of powerful being can fight Odium and not be afraid.

[Windrunner he/him]

The problem with being a Sliver is that we don't actually know what it does to you. The definition is a person who has held a large portion of a Shard's raw power. Brandon says this leaves some sort of remnant behind, with unknown affects.

Mistborn WoA spoilers (I know you haven't read it yet, so it's your choice)

Being a Sliver of Preservation didn't seem to increase Vin's power at all during the events of HoA

If you didn't want to read it, let it suffice that being a Sliver hasn't appeared to increase anyone's power that we've directly seen. I can't speak for the Lord Ruler though.

[Bunyod he/him]

If you didn't want to read it, let it suffice that being a Sliver hasn't appeared to increase anyone's power that we've directly seen. I can't speak for the Lord Ruler though.

Lord Ruler was a sliver of 1 shard for 1000 years and he got that much strong.

I don't know about you, but if I see 16 shards near me... I'll get at least one of them, or I will get partial power from all of them. And after several thousands of years my powers would be awesomely Kick Arse!

The guy who doesn't have this kind of power cannot challenge Odium.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Bunyod

[Aradel he/him]

TLR used feruchemy to cheat the system. Being a sliver was not the source of his power.

[Bunyod he/him]

TLR used feruchemy to cheat the system. Being a sliver was not the source of his power.

Yes, that's true.

But just combine the powers of 16 and you may not need to cheat to multiply your powers by 1000 times. Who knows?

[Windrunner he/him]

But just combine the powers of 16 and you may not need to cheat to multiply your powers by 1000 times. Who knows?

Personally, I don't believe it likely. We have no knowledge of how the Shattering occurred, aside from Hoid was there. Who knows if he had the opportunity to take power from any of the Shards let alone all 16. They might have gone straight to their original holders. I also don't believe it is possible to create Splinters unless you have a Shard and either Splinter another or yourself. Also Hoid isn't really challenging Odium to a one-on-one fight here. Hoid even mentions hiding from someone (possible Odium). He's more openly present in the Stormlight Archive, but I believe he's still pulling the strings behind the scenes as well.

[Odium's_Shard]

I was thinking of Shards like diamonds all through your post. In order to break diamond... hit it with another diamond.

[Bunyod he/him]

I was thinking of Shards like diamonds all through your post. In order to break diamond... hit it with another diamond.

Let me know if I understood you correctly.

If Adonalisium = diamond

We need another diamond to shatter it to 16 pieces.

Therefore, you are saying that one may assume that Hoid = diamond.

But this math is a bit wrong as Hoid in his letter gives us a clue that he is on a level of shard holders as he knows them personally, i.e. his level is not the whole diamond level but a shattered piece of diamond level.

I have no idea if I'm making sense here.

[Odium's_Shard]

Unfortunately, I never indicated my opinion as towards Hoid's status as a diamond. It was an interesting comparison. But you do raise the question: If Adonalsium was so great, what caused it to shatter in the first place? An equally great power?

[Bunyod he/him]

Unfortunately, I never indicated my opinion as towards Hoid's status as a diamond. It was an interesting comparison. But you do raise the question: If Adonalsium was so great, what caused it to shatter in the first place? An equally great power?

Rankings:

The Highest Power (who is capable to shatter Adonalsium). To me its - GOD ALMIGHTY

Adonalsium and other diamonds. To me this level represents ARCHANGELS

Shard holders / Hoid level. ANGELS

Heralds level. SAINTS

Surgebinders, Soulcasters, Allomancers level. GENIUSES like Einstein

Ordinar human beings. ordinar JOE

P.S. Being religious and looking at Brandon's books from this perspective, now I have no problem when WOK delirious shardholder named "Almighty" dies.

Odium, I have to say thank you to you! Its your thought process made me look at it this way. Earlier, I was sort of having problem with WOK "almighty" being dead

Edited March 28, 2012 by Bunyod

[Voidus]

If Adonalsium was so great, what caused it to shatter in the first place? An equally great power?

I'm thinking so, it could always be self caused or caused by an event rather than a being but my guess is on something of roughly equivalent ability. The question then is what happened to this being?

[Odium's_Shard]

Maybe, whatever Shardworld Adonalsium was on was becoming lazy, or were starting wars between themselves, or weren't following the correct path, in ways that Adonalsium couldn't influence or stop.

And so, using the incredible foresight that must come with being all of the Shards, Adonalsium could have predicted that eventually the world would reach a point at which it would need to be put back together, but the journey it takes to get to the reforming of Adonalsium would have taught the populace of all Shardworlds something, and the infighting or immoral approaches would end.

So it Shattered itself, then gave the pieces to people who held prominent positions in the ancient society of Adonalsium, and then continued to observe through all of the Shards as the world unfolded, and then was reforged.

He (Adonalsium's spirit?) might also be able to influence it if things start disintergrating more than he would like, ie, it might have been him that suggested the plan to Preservation, in order to work towards the reforging of Adonalsium, in that 2/16 pieces are now as one (Harmony).

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

Two things I'm not sure about, are we sure Hoid was present at the Shattering and that it didn't happen far before the events of any of the books? Those early drafts of Liar of Partinel seem to indicate that Hoid's world has been a Crapsack World as far back as living memory goes. Couldn't he and the other people who claimed the Shards have come along some time afterwards?

And can we be sure that there was there a consciousness behind Adonalsium? It may have behaved by different rules than the Shards. If there was a consciousness, did it dissipate into nothingness, go off somewhere else, or end up divided amongst the Shards? The Shards don't seem to have any intelligence on their own or be capable of action without someone directing them.

Edit: Also, whenever people mention the hardness of diamonds, I feel like they should also remember that diamonds have planes of cleavage and can be broken with strong impacts without too much trouble.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Cheese Ninja

[Zas678 he/him]

We do indeed know that Hoid was at the Shattering. I got a confirmation on that recently from Brandon. (It's coming, I promise!)

[Voidus]

The Shards don't seem to have any intelligence on their own or be capable of action without someone directing them.

Preservations shard managed to act on it's own (sort of anyway)

[Windrunner he/him]

About Shard's intelligence without a holder, here's the quote for anyone interested.

The power needed a consciousness to direct it. In this matter, I am still rather confused. Why would power used to create and destroy need a mind to oversee it? And yet, it seems to have only a vague will of it's own, tied into the mandate of it's abilities. Without a consciousness to direct it, nothing could actually be created or destroyed. It's as if the power of Preservation understands its tendency to reinforce stability is not enough.

We do indeed know that Hoid was at the Shattering. I got a confirmation on that recently from Brandon. (It's coming, I promise!)

I am really excited for this! From the tidbits you've mentioned, it's going to be excellent.

[Aeshdan he/him]

Unfortunately, I never indicated my opinion as towards Hoid's status as a diamond. It was an interesting comparison. But you do raise the question: If Adonalsium was so great, what caused it to shatter in the first place? An equally great power?

There is only one thing in the Cosmere that could shatter Adonalsium. Brandon himself!

[Shardbinder 17]

Totally agree that Hoid wrote the letter,

and based on nothing more solid than the idea that Shards pair however imperfectly and Hoid is a busy-body who knows all the Shards personally (is he the Shard of Nosy-ness?)

I think he wrote it to his dichotomy Apathy

(though the idea of sending the 17th Shard against him doesn't seem very Apathetic)

...But then if the 17th Shard organsiation had any powers based on Apathy what wouldthey do if they caught up with him?

[Odium's_Shard]

Ask him to mind his manners and take their confrontation to a less public place for a civilised discussion on topics of Great Interest to the Cosmere, as well as politely inferring that in order to 'torture' the information out of his, they might just lock him in a cushioned, well-furnished room, perhaps with several wall decorations just for a semblance of sanity (optional), while gently playing Justin Beiber's 'Baby' and, perhaps, 14 decibels, until it drives him so mentally-deficient that he relinquishes all hold over the data on how to combine Adonalsium, all the while muttering under his breath, 'Oh how I hate Selema Gomez.'.

Although, you might be able to go through and revise that to make it more apathetic. For example, 'torture' seems to enthusiastic, and why would they even bother to save the Cosmere if they have no concern? Besides, 14 decibels shows way to much emotion.

[kari-no-sugata]

Breaking my lurker habits to throw out a quick question here. Has any theorizing been made as to why Odium has been so successful in killing other shard holders? The general impression I have is that Aona(Devotion?), Skai(Unity?), and Tanavast(Honor) were all near opposites to Rayse(Odium). What is it about Odium that none of those shards could effectively defend themselves against him? As for Sazed(Preservation/Ruin) I would hope that of all the shards Preservation would be hard to destroy. Especially when linked up with Ruin. Then again...

I had some general ideas on Odium recently and was wondering about starting a new thread on it, but after re-reading this thread, maybe I'll just add it here instead...

The following are just ideas and I have no evidence to back them up. I hope they both seem quite natural/plausible though.

Idea 1: one Shardholder cannot simply kill another in a plain "battle" - they are like fundamental forces and directly attacking another would simply lead to mutual-destruction.

Idea 2: all Shardholders will always have large areas of disagreement with other Shardholders and this probably gets worse with time. This is directly due to the fundamental nature of the Shards themselves. Of course, this doesn't mean that all Shard holders will immediately attack any other Shard holder - just that for two or more Shardholders to cooperate should be the exception rather than the norm.

Based on these two ideas we get the following:

So how does Odium kill other Shards then? By making use of a third Shard. So if a world only has one Shard holder involved then it would probably be impossible for Odium to just go there and kill the Shardholder and splinter the Shard. But if a world has two Shardholders then Odium can stir things up, get the two Shardholders to attack each other, which would weaken both. Odium could then directly work with one holder to destroy the other. In the ideal case, once one is killed Odium would then be able to kill the second if it is still quite weakened but this might not always work.

On Scadrial, maybe Odium had nothing to do because Ruin and Preservation had already attacked each other (or maybe he had encouraged this). Maybe Odium felt it wasn't necessary to go in and finish them off or maybe he was waiting for them to weaken and self-destruct further. On Sel, maybe he got the ideal result. Nalthis has just one Shard holder so he couldn't attack. And on Roshar he killed Honor and splintered his Shard with Cultivation's help - though what's happened to Cultivation seems unclear.

Sound reasonable?

[Quantum Toast he/him]

Sounds good to me. I'd been wondering if he just manipulated Aona and Skai into killing each other (if it happens the same way Vin killed herself and Ati, then he doesn't even need to finish off the winner), then splintered their Shards before anyone could claim them.