tipbruley

Anyone find it interesting that cultivation interfered with the nightwatcher 3 times. One of those individuals went on to possess Odium, Dalinar is tightly linked to Honor, and Lift is tightly linked to Cultivation? Very tinfoil theory is that she was picking the 3 replacements for the shards.

I think the 5th ideal is the opposite actually. I think it is "I will not cause harm/kill to protect others". I personally believe that Lirin exemplifies the tenants of the wind runners perfectly. There has to be a reason so few radiant can swear the 5th tenant. They always have killed to protect, so it wouldn't be hard for most to move past that. We also see that Kaladin and Syl can protect others by putting her shardplate on the people in the square so Kaladin would not need to kill Singers to protect his people. Kaladin has already been leaning towards this because he has befriended the enemy and realized that in war good people are killed.

So I was scratching my head about why Odium would have ever agreed to the terms set forth by Dalinar where either way of the battle, Odium has to stay on Roshar. But after re-reading Odium is very clear on one case that would allow him to get off Roshar. If Dalinar voids the agreement then Odium is free. The biggest thing here is that Odium asked for Dalinar's soul to be given to him. Not anyone else's. Dalinar even says earlier that he can only order other people to submit to subservience, but he can only really promise that he follows through with the bargain. This means that Dalinar MUST continue to serve Odium for as long as Odium demands it. Now Dalinar is a great guy, but we have already seen what happens to people trying to maintain an oath through eternity. They weaken/get corrupted. Eventually he will break his promise and then Odium will be free. In fact, he might not even have to wait that long. Odium could instruct Dalinar to kill his family one by one. I'm not sure that Dalinar could go through with that.

Kaladin hands down was more racist. Many members of Kelsier's team were half noble. Kaladin hated and distrusted all Lighteyes and only associated himself with darkeyes. Kaladin judges people on their appearance, where Kelsier judges people on their social status.

Very interesting about Dalinar NOT having an honorblade! I think I mainly thought Dalinar had an honor blade from Szeth's reaction to it (he smiled when he saw Dalinar's blade because he assumes that Kaladin got his powers through an honorblade. This means that either 1) Szeth can't recognize Honorblades by sight and assumed it was one 2) Szeth's mental state allowed him to see what he wanted to see (probably the most likely answer)o 3) It actually is an honorblade but there is something more to the whole screaming that we don't understand.

First, I have been assuming that Dalinar held an Honorblade (Taln's) during his fight with Szeth and when he becomes a radiant facing the Stormfather. I say this because Dalinar tells Amaram that he had bonded Taln's blade before he summons it (which I assume is an Honorblade). Also because Szeth looks at Dalinar's blade during the fight on the plane and smiles (because he now assumes that the Honorblade is what gave Kaladin his powers, not Kaladin being a radiant). That being said, I was unsure why the Stormfather called the Honorblad a monstrosity. I was under the assumption that regular shardblades were dead spren, but Honor blades were created by Honor and weren't actually bonded spren. In fact I think somewhere (i couldn't find the quote), it is mentioned that spren decided to bond with humans only after the honor blades were lost, so the Honorblades couldn't be dead spren. So the question here is why is an Honor blade considered a monstrosity by the Stormfather, and why did Dalinar hear screaming from it when he summoned it? -Trey

I was thinking that the story of Fleet was actually about Honor versus Odium. Fleet represents Honor and the storm represents Odium Odium killed Honor, but Honor's death appears to have stopped him (based on the letters epigraph about Odium being contained) The interesting thing to note is that this happened at Shinovar, which is where we know the Honor blades are being kept. After dying, Fleet's soul rises up and roams around the world. This is eerily similar to the Stormfather. Anyone else see the coincidence? Maybe this story was not about Kaladin as Wit says it is, or maybe Kaladin is destined to do something similar to what Honor did to keep Odium contained. Not really a theory, but just something that crossed my mind

Well if you have read the whole book, you might think I just missed the part where he fails the ceremony to become a Rithmatist. However, thinking about it a little more, I think that seeing the being of light was enough to make Joel a Rithmatist. No one talked about the ceremony so he couldn't discover it until later! We all know that drawing Rithmatic figures requires intent from the Rithmatist to actually take on any properties. You see this illustrated by the lack of mysterious symbol that blocks out sound. This was explained by the lack of knowing what the symbol does. Fitch also explains why this causes it to fail "...believe that a Rithmatic line functions based on the Rithmatist;s goals in drawing it...nothing comes to life unless we are explicitly trying to do a Rithmatic drawing. OK so now we need to see if Joel was ever attempting to do a Rithmatic drawing after that encounter. First he does the test with Melody. After he draws the line, he says that he knows it won't work. He didn't believe that he had become a Rithmatist and thus he never had intent and desire to draw a Rithmatic line "Melody reached out with her anxious hand, but Joel knew what would happen" Also, when he is drawing in the arena he isn't trying to draw Rithmatic structures. He is just trying to outline what Melody will draw. Let me know your thoughts on this one guys -Trey

Do you know where this has been confirmed. Not that I doubt it, but how it is worded could impact this thoery. I think it would be possible for the Hoid in Dragonsteel to be the Hoid in Mistborn, but there is a different Hoid in . That being said, without reading dragonsteel it's hard to make a case (I don't purposefully read spoilers about Dragonsteel since I kind of feel that Sanderson doesn't want us to know about the events in that book yet). -Trey

Is this widely believed/confirmed? Both the mention of Sel and the Cosmere have me believe that this can be inferred, but I haven't read all of the Q&As with Sanderson. Also, is it was fair game to assume that the book Ironeyes (Marsh), gave Marsai at the end of AoL was the Ars Arcanum? Anyways, after re-reading the WoA, I am fairly confident that Hoid was creating the Ars Arcanum at that time. I read somewhere that BS confirmed he was up in the Terris mountains at that time and meets up with Elend after the Inquisitors destroy the Terris homeland. I think he was attempting to investigate the different types of investiture and wanted to get familiar with Feurochemy, but was able to learn about hemalurgy when the Inquisitors turned up. It also makes sense about why Vin was spooked about meeting with Hoid at the end of book 3. She may have picked up that he was experimenting with Hemalurgy and been creeped out by it. Assuming I am right, there are a couple follow up questions. 1) Why does Hoid think Hemalurgy would be so useful in the Cosmere. Does he plan on stealing Shard bearers' power? 2) Is it possible that the Hoid in WoA is different from the Hoid in the Way of Kings? Could someone have stolen his power? (Hoid did mention in the WoK that his name was stolen from someone - we have assumed that the character in the other books are the same, and he stole that name from someone not mentioned in BS books, but it could be that the current Hoid is a different person)

Not trying to be rude here, but could we keep this discussion to WoT spoilers only (or update the title!). I haven't read Belgariad, but I might in the future. I'm not even sure if these are spoilers or known from the beginning. RJ had this series made up in his mind 23 years ago so I doubt that he copied anyone. Also, I think BS probably had 0% input on what the confrontation of Rand and the Dark One truly was as that was probably all RJ. I do think the thing that unsettled me the most was that the whole series was about choice, but then there were things like Compulsion and turning channelers to the dark side against their will that kind of negates that.

In a follow up to I thought it would be fun to do an avenger's list with only Brandon's Characters (including Wheel of Time). I moved this to a spoiler forum, since some of the descriptions have them. Captian America => Raoden: Natural leader that fights for freedom and democracy for everyone! Hawkeye => Brigette Silverbow: Renowned archer and made a living shooting at a carnival for a while. The Hulk => Vasher: Self loathing scientist that creates an invention which turns him into a killing machine. Black Widow => Vin: Works in the shadows. Perfect female assassin character. Iron Man => Dalinar (The Blackthorne). Rich badass with a metal suit that gives him special powers. I could also see Kalidin as he is a genius who enjoys breaking the rules and can fly (If he ever puts on Shardplate - I'm unsure if Syl hates Shardplate as well) Thor => Had a hard time here. Maybe Kelsier. Is a man with godlike powers, but spends his time protecting the weak. Nick Fury => Mat Cauthon: Another bad-chull leader who only has one eye Anyone, agree/disagree

I actually thought that a younger Dalinar would be a PERFECT Iron Man replacement. Imagine Dalinar's bad-chull attitude when he was younger and more cocky! Plus he shows up in a full suit of armor!

Spoilers! Please don't decrease my reputation for this (this has been done in the past because she has a lot of supporters), but I think Shallan is my least favorite character 1) She is a character you are supposed to like rather than hate so she is poorly written for me 2) He is selfish - Her whole plot to steal from Jasnah makes no sense in my mind and is completely selfish. Then she does something even MORE selfish by hanging around Jasnah so she could get taught by her. 3) I don't find her dialog witty or funny (I know a ton of people do). I just find it annoying. Her play on words retorts got really old, really quickly 4) I would rather her plot be told by Jasnah (who I find much more interesting) I like when bad guys are unlikable or annoying. I don't like when I find the protaganists hard to put up with.

I'll update this as I continue reading... One interesting thing I noticed on the reread was the Gawyn pocketed the Bloodknives' rings that give them cause them to fight faster, but end up killing them.

Hmmm very interesting. I would like to expand on the theory and say that Parshmen can be influenced by either Honor or Hate. This would explain the books saying that the Parshmen were voidbringers. Somehow Odium influenced them in the past. Parshmen could be the husks that either get turned into Voidbringers or Parshendi based on what Shard influences them. Maybe creating the Parshendi was the last act Honor did before biting the dust!

Repost of this theory with some new arguments. The letter was Addressed to HOID from some character who now holds Odium Here is what could have happened The person who wrote the letter killed Rayse and became Odium. After thousands of years Odium has corrupted the writter of the letter, and he now is as bad as Rayse was. Hoid is now here to stop his friend. The 17th shard are members that seek to protect shardbearers from being destroyed (or something similiar) and now hunt Hoid. TIMELINE: 1) Rayse holding Odium killed Skai and Aona 2) The WoK Letter is written to Hoid 3) The writer of the letter kills Rayse and takes Odium's power for himself 4) Elantris events 5) Way Of King events (Hoid seeks to confront the writer of the letter who now posseses Odium) WHY I think this makes sense. 1) The letter sounds like the events in Elantris had just happened, but we know Elantris was thousands of years before the events of the WoK. 2) The letter is written by someone determined to stop Rayse, but from what we see of Hoid he seems like someone who doesn't like interfering with things. He doesn't ever seem to be determined to stop Rayse or interfere in any situation we see him. A counter argument here is that the Letter is written to Sazed from Hoid who would 3) The letter is address to "an old friend". Hoid tells Kaladin that he is here to "See an Old Friend, but has been putting it off". From the letter, the writer implied he never liked Rayse, so I am not sure why he would call Rayse a friend, but it makes perfect sense for Hoid to reference the writer like that. 4) There seems to be a huge gap of time between desolations and the time the last time a shard holder was killed. This would be explained by Odium not corrupting the writter of the letter for thousands of years. http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/The_Way_of_Kings's_Epigraph_Letter#cite_note-2 Old friend, I hope this missive finds you well. Though, as you are now essentially immortal, I would guess that wellness on your part is something of a given.[1] I realize that you are probably still angry. That is pleasant to know. Much as your perpetual health, I have come to rely upon your dissatisfaction with me. It is one of the cosmere’s great constants, I should think.[2] Let me first assure you that the element is quite safe. I have found a good home for it. I protect its safety like I protect my own skin, you might say.[3] You do not agree with my quest. I understand that, so much as it is possible to understand someone with whom I disagree so completely.[4] Might I be quite frank? Before, you asked why I was so concerned. It is for the following reason:[5]Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him. Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I had ever met.[6] He holds the most frightening and terrible of all of the Shards. Ponder on that for a time, you old reptile, and tell me if your insistence on nonintervention holds firm. Because I assure you, Rayse will not be similarly inhibited.[7] One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say.[8] In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered. Presumably to prevent anyone from rising up to challenge Rayse.[9] You have accused me of arrogance in my quest. You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin. Both accusations are true.[10] Neither point makes the things I have written to you here untrue.[11] I am being chased. Your friends of the Seventeenth Shard, I suspect. I believe they’re still lost, following a false trail I left for them. They’ll be happier that way. I doubt they have any inkling what to do with me should they actually catch me.[12] If anything I have said makes a glimmer of sense to you, I trust that you’ll call them off. Or maybe you could astound me and ask them to do something productive for once.[13] For I have never been dedicated to a more important purpose, and the very pillars of the sky will shake with the results of our war here. I ask again. Support me. Do not stand aside and let disaster consume more lives. I’ve never begged you for something before, old friend. I do so now.[14]

I'm pretty sure that I can burn bronze. It's just unfortunate that no one else around me is a misting. On a more serious note, I would be a soother. Definitely would get in less fights with the wife

These are open ended questions that really got me thinking. I think there are assumptions we make about desolation that aren't really based on fact, but more conjecture. And if there is anything BS has taught me, it's to not believe something that everyone just assumes. So here are the two important questions for me. 1) What is the difference between past desolations and the "True Desolation"? - Are they in fact related? Could a desolation mean only one thing (the end of the world), and that every time there was a major war or event people falsely remembered it as a desolation? Did past desolations even face the same enemies? It seems that the Heralds fought different creatures than what Dalinar witnessed in his visions, and Jasnah seems to think they are related to the parshmen. In the end Dalinar's vision of the true desolation hints that there wont be a battle for existence, but rather an end to their world. 2) Are we sure Odium has been behind the previous desolations? - This is an extension of the first question. It seems "desolations" have been occurring for an extremely long time, I think probably before Odium even got there. Is it possible that there is something else behind previous desolations which caused men to act with Honor to protect the weak, and in fact Odium simply stopped it in order to get everyone lazy?

Bad pun alert! Would that make the theif an "Adam" Bomb

I think there are three main reasons 1) I find her rants and dialog more obnoxious than humorous or witty. She is just really being an @$$ to everyone. I'm guessing this is what is a differing factor for me. 2) Her plot to steal from Jasnah is completely selfish, which she even puts off selfishly because she wants to study. So her family will end up poor, what's the big deal? Is being a commoner that bad? She decides to steal from a foreign princess something almost invaluable so her her land can produce more trade. What about her and her deadbeat brothers doing something useful or using that blade she has? On top of that she can't even pull the trigger on being selfish for her family because she likes studying so much. 3) I thought Jasnah was a much cooler character and instead of focusing on her, we had to hear Shallan flirt with some stupid Ardent and complain about life. I also don't find the whole "I killed my father and I have a shard blade" that interesting of a subplot. She probably won't even use it. After a couple minutes of her dialog, I bet Szeth breaks his vows and eats his own shardblade to end her obnoxious tirade. There you have it. Shallan is probably my least liked Sanderson character (of the ones you are supposed to like).

I hope Shallan gets killed off in the first couple chapters.

OK, so part of this goes off into crazy land, but try to keep an open mind. I don't believe we have enough evidence about the Shin to truly understand them, but something had been irritating me about them. Upon rereading WoK, I came up with a wild, but interesting theory. My theory is basically this. The Shin's magic and fertile lands come from sacrificing children and innocents in some way (Think Children of the Corn). Szeth was supposed to sacrifice a loved one, but didn't making him Truthless. Now where to start on my foundation-less theory? Well what really got my started thinking was the following quote from the the begging of chapter 57 (the quotes the dying are saying). This quote always stood out from other quotes. To me this sounds like a human sacrifice. It's not silencing the child so that others are not heard during a desolation, it's killing the child and letting its life force spill to the ground to benefit the rest of society. Why the Shin? Well there are three main reasons. First, the Shin are always described to have big, child-like eyes. While this is hardly proof, I do not believe that there isn't a reason for them to be described in such a way repeatedly in the book. Second, we know that the Shin (and thus Szeth) do not get their magic from the Nahel bond (it has been confirmed that what is happening to Szeth is not related to the Knight's Radiant). Also, their land is described as furtile, but without any Spren, so they have to get their magic in other ways. The magic system in WoK seems to heavily favor a give and take attitude. The Radiants give something (I'll look up Syl's quote later) to the spren and in return get their powers. The Nightwatcher gives a boon for a curse. I think that the Shin sacrifice innocents for their power. We know almost nothing about them except that... Their farmers are revered above any other profession and their farms are sacred. This doesn't make a lot of sense when you think about it. The one farmer we seems extraordinarily rich. The economics just don't add up that a farmer could be treated so well and revered when almost anyone could become a farmer. That on top of the fact that their fields are so sacred makes me think that there is something sinister going on behind closed doors. I believe Szeth was in the Valley of Truth (where they reveal what they do to keep their lands fertile), and could not bring himself to agree with what was being done. He may have even been part of it before helping someone escape! We see Szeth be upset numerous times about killing innocents, especially at what was being done at the end of the book (I don't think he had ever even thought about talking the way he did to his masters before seeing people being killed for their secrets). Additionally, Truthless has always seemed an interesting word. Not Szeth the Liar, or Szeth the Untruthful. It was Szeth the Truthless, which to me implies that he has rejected the Truth about his people (or what happens in the Valley of Truth). You also get to see how uncomfortable the Farmer gets when Szeth is mentioned. I also think this ties into the influence of the Shards on Roshar. The Alethi seemed to heavily favor Honor. However, I believe their bravery and courage has been twisted over time by Odium (Hate). Now, each soldier feels the "Thrill" when they kill on the battle field, leading to a war crazed society. I believe the Shin were the same way with Cultivation. Overtime their beliefs were twisted by hate which leads to human sacrificed Call me crazy, but I hope to see people at least admit it might be possible

Hmmm, I had thought the quote was that the Shin didn't make him Truthless because we has a knight radiant, not that he wasnt one (I don't think anyone truly is one right now though) I very nearly had Dalinar in Pious/Guiding. However, confidence is the Man's middle name and he seems to strive to create a Just and fair society while everyone else seeks power. The thing that tipped me over was Navani drawing a huge Justice glyph while waiting his return after Sadeas betrayed him.

Dalinar was charged with reviving the Knight's Radiant in his last vision with the Almighty. Knowing Dalinar he will follow this pursuit to the letter, I think we can expect the Order of the Knight's Radiants to make a comeback in the series at somepoint. That means all 10 orders. I expect that the heads (or only members) of the order will be main characters in the books. Now just looking at the Ars Arcanum, there are ten essenses which I believe are linked with the 10 orders. Based on their Devine Attribute I tried to pair them with who I feel would embody the ideal. I don't believe we have met them all yet but I believe the following members will b Protecting/Leading - Kaladin Just/Confident- Navani?? Brave/Obedient- Adolin Loving/Healing- ???? Learned/Giving - ???? Creative/Honest- Shallan Wise/Careful- Jasnah Resolute/Builder(...) - Dalinar Dependable/Resourceful (?) - Taln Pious/Guiding - Renarin????? Szeth??? Anyone have any thoughts? Should I move anyone? Edit: Also, interestingly, the secondary attributes I listed are main points of contention for the characters Kaladin struggles with himself on if he should lead. Shallan struggles about being deceitful to Jasnah Dalinar struggles about being confident in his visions. Also, if you look at the faces in the link bellow you can see there are 5 female 5 male. I'm not sure the faces are correctly lined up, but would that mean there are 5 female and 5 male orders or is it random? Are the orders gender specific? http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk78/NeverEarth/Chart3-2.jpg