Kelvin Posted April 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 I don't think Adonalsium is Good. I think it was singing made by God. A representation of God's power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 You know, I kind of liked the thought of a dragon-free Cosmere. It's just so unlike every other fantasy universe, I kind of liked it that way. I was actually mildly disappointed when I thought the Cosmere was dragonless. Brandon Sanderson is such an incredible writer and worldbuilder, I can't imagine what he'd do with such a rich and flexible concept as a "dragon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Dragons are generally not rich or flexible, they are pretty carefully pigeonholed. Giant flying lizard. loves shiny things. Can be sentient and if they are, they're usually smarter and more capable than humans, especially at magic. Breathes fire mostly, can often breathe random other things. If they can breath other things, it's defined by the colour of their scales like some kind of Bag of Dragon Skittles. Green breathes limes, red breathes cherries, etc. They live a long time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Dragons are generally not rich or flexible, they are pretty carefully pigeonholed. Giant flying lizard. loves shiny things. Can be sentient and if they are, they're usually smarter and more capable than humans, especially at magic. Breathes fire mostly, can often breathe random other things. If they can breath other things, it's defined by the colour of their scales like some kind of Bag of Dragon Skittles. Green breathes limes, red breathes cherries, etc. They live a long time. There are also Asiatic dragons, which were slimmer, controlled the weather, and often controlled vast stores of knowledge. The Rainbow Serpent is sometimes classified as a dragon--the mere fact that there is a debate on that one confirms that there is a variability to dragons! The Rainbow Serpent was a creator deity. Wyverns were two-legged and weren't always associated with breathing fire. The Tarasque was wingless and more like a savage turtle than anything else. There are dragon myths across the world, and each myth adds more potential for a unique type! The reason dragons get a bad rep nowadays is that modern writers have been uncreative with them. The creators of D&D, for instance, were responsible for the "dragon Skittles" you talked about. J. K. Rowling, for all that I admire her work, didn't really expand the world of dragons with her novels, and Christopher Paolini did very little to shed new light on dragons in Eragon. I guarantee you that Brandon Sanderson's would not be as creatively stagnant as most modern depictions. This thing, you will see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 I agree that I preferred a dragon-free Cosmere, but I'm holding to my faith that Brandon can take anything and make it unique and awesome. Back on topic, we should also take into account the placement of Shards. Brandon said that Ruin and Preservation happened to come together thanks to opposites attracting. Where would they have been planned to go if they had chosen ahead of time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketek Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Brandon, I think, has said that Dragonsteel's dragons will not be like the stereotypical dragons we've seen before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Did whoever/whatever have any say in what intents the shards had when they were created? Or were they the only forms the power could have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSHtaFARian2.0 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Did whoever/whatever have any say in what intents the shards had when they were created? Or were they the only forms the power could have? Brandon has said that Adonalsium could have shattered in different ways. That is, the 16 Shards that were formed were not the only possibilities, if it had shattered in a different way, there could have been Shards with different Intents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I agree that I preferred a dragon-free Cosmere, but I'm holding to my faith that Brandon can take anything and make it unique and awesome. Back on topic, we should also take into account the placement of Shards. Brandon said that Ruin and Preservation happened to come together thanks to opposites attracting. Where would they have been planned to go if they had chosen ahead of time? I'm quite sure he will. Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 387973120 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 521308464 bytes) in Unknown on line 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Brandon has said that Adonalsium could have shattered in different ways. That is, the 16 Shards that were formed were not the only possibilities, if it had shattered in a different way, there could have been Shards with different Intents. Then did the people who shattered Adonalsium have any say in what intents the shards have? I'm assuming that people were involved because it seems a big coincidence that Adonalsium shattered and that people were conveniently there to pick it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Well, we have WoB that Adonalsium was shattered intentionally, though we do not know the intent itself. Knowing this, it doesn't surprise me that 16 people were there to pick up the pieces within the timeframe allotted. By which I mean, the amount of time it would have taken for those pieces to either come back together or start killing things. I'd place it at about a week with that many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 No idea why this just springs to mind when i picture them choosing their Shards. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weebojello Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I actually don't really associate Cultivation with femininity. I live in farming country so there are a lot of wrinkled and bearded men planting crops around me. Cultivation in that context is generally fertility related. Primary fertility gods (generic) were were generally female, with Demeter / Ceres being the more easily known ones. The tale of Persephone / Hades exemplifies the female divinity in agricultural growth. Interestingly there is clear examples of that aspect of cultivation, but Brandon stated in a WOB that Cultivation was more aligned with Odium in the sense that Cultivation is about *change*. I'm too obtuse to thing along those lines generally, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 but Brandon stated in a WOB that Cultivation was more aligned with Odium in the sense that Cultivation is about *change*. You are thinking Cultivation & Ruin, not Cultivation & Odium. Odium is not really about change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masaru Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Or they were (at least partially) responsible for the Shattering of Adonalsium. That would make the Shards their responsibility, and by extension - any changes they force on their Holders. Makes sense. That line "He is what we made him to be, old friend" is written in such a way to leave it ambiguous... on purpose, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted April 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Do we have any guesses as to what Adonalsium was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Guess, sure. We don't know anything concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I don't have the exact quote of Hoid describing Rayse but Hoid did imply Rayse was SNEAKY (correct me if I am wrong) as well as all the other descriptive words he used. Perhaps Rayse played the nice guy when the shattering occured, and convinced the group that he was like Ati, and will try to mitigate the damage. Or at least that is how I see Ati's actions. That he was a good person, trying to lesson the damage of Ruin. Thereby everyone agrees to Rayse getting hatred's shard. Rayse then reveals himself to be the horrible person he is, and thus Hoid....is....PISSED lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I don't know about that. What I'm saying is about Hoid, so it's anything if not subjective, but he sounded more to me like they knew Rayse was a crafty and loathsome person all along. Here, let me get the quote... Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him. Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I had ever met. He holds the most frightening and terrible of all of the Shards. I don't know, but to me it sounds like Rayse, referenced in pre-shard tense, would need to have been going for a while to earn the descriptions of loathsome, crafty, and dangerous all in one go, since Hoid has met quite a few people that fit those description is excess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Apparently Hoid new all of the 'Shardholders' before they became honor, cultivation, Odium etc. (He was around before the shattering.) Cultivation does not like Hoid - Stated by BS Tanavast/Honor once bought him drinks- "Tanavast was a fine enough fellow - bought me drinks once - but he was no god" - Words of radiance. Has beef with Rayse - "on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I had ever met." - The Letter Has beef with Bavadin - "You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin." - The Letter Thought well of Ati before being changed by Ruin - "Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him." - The Letter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 A question related to this one is whether whoever shattered Adonalsium knew specifically what the shattering would do. Like, did they know what the shards would be--Honor, Ruin, Endowment, etc? I would guess that they did not, and it wasn't clear to them what the parts of Adonalsium's whole would be before the shattering. If my guess is accurate, then I would say that at least some of the original Shardholders were drawn to the Shard that most matched their personality (or soul or whatever) but didn't choose in the sense that they said, "Oo! I want Odium!" It could be that this happened with all of them, or maybe one faction shattered Adonalsium, taking the Shards they felt drawn to, and the rest were snatched up by an opposing faction trying to limit their opponents' power. The latter possibility would explain why a nice guy like Ati would end up with Ruin, if he was on the other side from those who shattered Adonalsium. Of course, the former is still a possibility. Sanderson has said that Ruin is more like Cultivation than Odium. Ruin could have matched Ati's disposition quite well, but millenia on the same planet with a Shard directly opposing his will twisted his personality. So, basically, I'm saying that while we don't have nearly enough information, my guess is that they sort of chose them but weren't fully aware of what they were choosing. And maybe some of them were grabbed blindly by people panicking about Adonalsium being shattered. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 New WoB from the Waygate stream Weiry transcribed: Q: Did the original sixteen Shardholders all know each other? B: Yes they at least-- Yes, I would say that they did. This implies they all knew each other BEFORE gaining the shards, incidentally. Though the way he says it implies they didn't necessarily know each other well, or at least not all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Or maybe knew OF each other. Like I know of the president of the United States, and I know a friend of mine in England, doesn't mean I have met them, or are on speaking terms with them, just that I know who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Or maybe they were arrayed on different sides of a conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Excellent point. Hell it could even be argued that Hoid never met Rayse and what went down was like what happened with: Moash. He never met Elhokar, but hated the man for in his mind killing his parents. He knew of Elhokar, and had plenty of reason in his head to despise him, but never knew him as like a friend or such. So that could have happened with Hoid. Lol I am really looking forward to finding out all the intricacies Brandon has planned for our dear Wit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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