Oathgates opened from both sides?

[RobTheIII]

Sorry if this has been answered but I couldn’t find the answer. In Oathbringer it is said multiple times that oathgates must be opened from both sides by a radiant before they’ll work. If that’s the case how did Shallan open the gate on the Shattered Plains?

Edited August 26, 2018 by RobTheIII

[+Extesian he/him]

No its a good question. We know that gate was the only one in Urithiru that was left unlocked.

Quote

Shallan suspected that Jasnah had tried to open the Oathgate there; the woman’s notes said that Oathgates to each of the cities were locked tight. Only the one in the Shattered Plains had been left open.

We don't know why. maybe just because they had to leave urithiru by that gate? Or maybe the plains had already been shattered and that gate wasn't functional enough to bother locking the urithiru side?

[Andy92]

10 minutes ago, Extesian said:

maybe just because they had to leave urithiru by that gate?

This one would be my guess. If they all evacuated through the same gate for one final time, they might not have had anyone to stay behind and lock it. Only real option would be a Windrunner/Skybreaker that could fly out of the city after locking it. 

[Calderis he/him]

Or an Elsecaller/Willshaper, if teleportation is possible. 

[RobTheIII]

23 minutes ago, Extesian said:

No its a good question. We know that gate was the only one in Urithiru that was left unlocked.

We don't know why. maybe just because they had to leave urithiru by that gate? Or maybe the plains had already been shattered and that gate wasn't functional enough to bother locking the urithiru side?

I don’t think they HAD to leave by that gate, they find an exit into some foothills. *point of clarification, I’m maybe half way into Oathbringer so I’m sure I haven’t read every reference to the gates being locked/why they’re locked.

Every gate being locked doesn’t make sense. If there’s no Radients to operate them there’s no reason to lock them and if they thought there would be Radients left this seems like a minor inconvenience. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see if reasons are forthcoming. 

[galendo]

I'm inclined to go with "rule of convenience" from a meta perspective:

Situation: Brandon Sanderson needs Shallan to travel to the Shattered Plains.  Shallan needs to open the way to Urithiru at an appropriate climactic moment.  Urithiru needs to have not been found previously by Jasnah, who travels widely and is searching for it.

Solution:  The only functional Oathgate is on the Shattered Plains.

Result: Shallan goes to the Plains, climactic scene happens, all is well.

As others have pointed out, there isn't really a plausible reason for the Radiants leaving just the Shattered Plains route open, assuming locking the gates was intentional and easy.  It's hard to believe they couldn't leave one Radiant behind to shut the last door if they did evacuate, and even if the Shattered Plains was already wrecked and they saw no need to shut the last gate, leaving it open is incredibly lazy.  It'd be like locking nine doors to your house and leaving the back door open because "it's in the backyard and no one ever goes there."

[Thurin he/him]

And what about Szeth? He's been to Urithiru not long before the battle of Narak, so is it possible that he unlocked the Oathgate from that side?

[Unlicensed Hemalurgist he/him]

19 minutes ago, Thurin said:

And what about Szeth? He's been to Urithiru not long before the battle of Narak, so is it possible that he unlocked the Oathgate from that side?

I think you need a living Shardblade to unlock an Oathgate, don't you? If all Szeth had access to were various Honorblades, he probably wouldn't have been able to get in through an Oathgate.

[Calderis he/him]

6 minutes ago, Unlicensed Hemalurgist said:

I think you need a living Shardblade to unlock an Oathgate, don't you? If all Szeth had access to were various Honorblades, he probably wouldn't have been able to get in through an Oathgate.

Honorblades work.

Quote

Dalinar reached the steps downward, then wound around and around, holding a broam for light. If Captain Kaladin didn’t return soon, the Honorblade would provide another means of Windrunning—a way to get to Thaylen City or Azir at speed. Or to get Elhokar’s team to Kholinar. The Stormfather had also confirmed it could work Oathgates, which might prove handy.

Szeth would have to know what the oathgates were though, and while he's smart enough to have figured out where the armies went at the end of WoR because he'd seen those platforms in Urithiru, there's nothing to say he actually played with them. 

[+Extesian he/him]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Honorblades work.

Szeth would have to know what the oathgates were though, and while he's smart enough to have figured out where the armies went at the end of WoR because he'd seen those platforms in Urithiru, there's nothing to say he actually played with them. 

I thiiink he didn't know what it was until the plateau transported from this. 

Quote

Szeth screamed again. Kaladin caught the word this time. ‘How!’ Kaladin’s answer was to strike with his Blade. Szeth parried violently, and they clashed, two glowing figures in the blackness. ‘I know this column!’ Szeth screamed. ‘I have seen its like before! They went to the city, didn’t they!’

Reinforcing the point further that it wasn't him. 

[Jeffo]

4 hours ago, Extesian said:

I thiiink he didn't know what it was until the plateau transported from this. 

Reinforcing the point further that it wasn't him. 

Something sneaky bout those shin though ......

[Weltall]

It's also possible the ancient Radiants left that gate open on purpose. We know they wanted the city to be found eventually given the care they took to create and then hide the gem archive. Leaving one unlocked in a place that wasn't currently inhabited served as an easier way to hint to future generations where to find Urithiru, should knowledge of its exact location become lost, as it was. You still need a Radiant to open the way so it's not really much of a security risk and less of one than leaving an unlocked gate in a major city, but it still leaves a route open for people to find their way to the city when necessary.

[Spoolofwhool]

I agree with what @Weltall said. I think that the Radiants wouldn't have wanted Urithiru to be permanently abandoned, so they left one gate open, but in the most inconvenient place possible to prevent people from accidentally using it to get to the city. 

 

8 hours ago, Extesian said:

I thiiink he didn't know what it was until the plateau transported from this. 

Reinforcing the point further that it wasn't him. 

Also, the thick layer of crem sealing the chamber makes it extremely likely that no one has actually used the Oathgate in awhile. Either way, in an earlier interlude, Szeth talks about using lashings to leave Urithiru. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Spoolofwhool

[LadyLameness]

On 27/08/2018 at 11:40 AM, Weltall said:

It's also possible the ancient Radiants left that gate open on purpose. We know they wanted the city to be found eventually given the care they took to create and then hide the gem archive. Leaving one unlocked in a place that wasn't currently inhabited served as an easier way to hint to future generations where to find Urithiru, should knowledge of its exact location become lost, as it was. You still need a Radiant to open the way so it's not really much of a security risk and less of one than leaving an unlocked gate in a major city, but it still leaves a route open for people to find their way to the city when necessary.

I agree with this but would take it slightly further.

I assumed that the gates were sealed because of the decisions made by the other cities. If the Radiant's were abandoning Urithiru then there would be no one to regulate passage and trade and having a working Oathgate just creates a security risk for the other Oathgate cities. The gate to the Shattered Plains was left open by the Radiant's because there was no city left to demand it be closed. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by LadyLameness

[galendo]

On 8/26/2018 at 6:40 PM, Weltall said:

It's also possible the ancient Radiants left that gate open on purpose. We know they wanted the city to be found eventually given the care they took to create and then hide the gem archive. Leaving one unlocked in a place that wasn't currently inhabited served as an easier way to hint to future generations where to find Urithiru, should knowledge of its exact location become lost, as it was. You still need a Radiant to open the way so it's not really much of a security risk and less of one than leaving an unlocked gate in a major city, but it still leaves a route open for people to find their way to the city when necessary.

Not implausibe -- the gem archive is fairly strong evidence that the old Radiants were planning for at least the possibility that the Knights Radiant would be reformed -- but the idea that the location of Urithiru would be lost but somehow the knowledge of an unlocked Oathgate on the Shattered Plains would be kept seems like somewhat of a stretch.  The exact or approximate location of Urithiru is probably common knowledge at the time the Radiants disbanded.  At least among the educated, I'd expect finding Urithiru on a map wouldn't be much different than, say, pointing out Tokyo on Earth.  Not only is it one of the most famous cities in the world, a whole bunch of those people have actually been there.

How many people knew that the Oathgate on the Shattered Plains would be left open?  Probably not very many.  And this sort of useless factoid would be soon forgotten, since it does no one any good if the Radiants are gone.  At least one or two ambitious kings/lords/thieves/desperadoes might have dreamed of plundering Urithiru and would have remembered its physical location for that if nothing more.  That gem-covered pillar alone would probably be worth a fortune.

Come to think of it, I'm really surprised that Urithiru wasn't plundered in all the years since the Recreance.  Maybe that's the real plot hole.  No peak on Earth has resisted determined mountaineers, and Roshar has Shardplate and Shardblades, which should make scaling even the toughest cliffs fairly straightforward.  Dalinar and Elhokar sure went up those spires quickly and easily enough.

On 8/27/2018 at 2:13 AM, LadyLameness said:

I assumed that the gates were sealed because of the decisions made by the other cities. If the Radiant's were abandoning Urithiru then there would be no one to regulate passage and trade and having a working Oathgate just creates a security risk for the other Oathgate cities. The gate to the Shattered Plains was left open because the Radiant's because there was no city left to demand it be closed. 

This is also a good idea that doesn't quite work.  There's no particular advantage to any city to having its own gate locked from the Urithiru side.  (Having it locked from its own side makes more sense from a security standpoint, but considering that Jasnah couldn't open the other gates means they must have been locked from Urithiru, too.)  I suppose I could see if all the cities agreed to have all the gates locked from Urithiru, basically supposing that each city could only get the others to lock their gates if it agreed to have its own gate locked, too.

But in this case not locking the Shattered Plains gate too is an oversight, since if one country did want to unilaterally unlock Urithiru, and had at least one Radiant, they could simply wait until their Radiant made the trip to Urithiru by way of the Shattered Plains (or for a Windrunner/Skybreaker/Elsecaller/Lightweaver, possibly directly to Urithiru if it's closer) and unlocked everything.  So there's still no especial reason to keep the Shattered Plains gate unlocked.