traceria Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 Stuck behind "spoiler" just in case: This idea hit me as I was reading the "Why Nalan is Emotionless" thread. It came about in part because of something RShara said about an evolving theory she (?) has that the Heralds are now Champions of Odium. Also, my husband theorized before WoR came out that he thought it possible the Heralds were working with Odium (though he didn't use the name) instead of for the good of the peoples of Roshar, as it later came to be thought. He thought the Oathpact might be between the Heralds and Odium. So, with that in mind... What if the Honorblades are splinters of Honor? And what if Odium created them when he splintered Honor? (Kind of reminiscent of how the shardblades are dead spren.) Not saying I necessarily believe this, more that I'm looking for others' thoughts and opinions on the possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 I think we can definitively say no. Keep in mind that Honor was still very much alive when the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact, giving up their honorblades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traceria Posted April 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 I only ask this because I really don't know: How do we know Honor was splintered after the Oathpact was broken? The wiki says there's a citation needed (http://coppermind.net/wiki/Honor). (Sorry, for some reason this computer/browser won't let me hotlink text.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 We know for sure that the Oathpact involved only the Heralds and Honor. After most of them broke their side of the pact, though, it wouldn't surprise me if they were then open to Odium's influence and are really working for him now. I would really love to get a History of Roshar timeline, along with a History of the Cosmere timeline Even if it's mostly guesses, it'd be nice to know what order things happened in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 We have this WoB: QuestionWas the Almighty still alive when the Heralds packed it in, and did the Radiants pack it in in direct response to what the Heralds did?Brandon SandersonThe Radiants did NOT abandon their post as a response to the Heralds. The Radiants abandoned it for some other reason which will become evident eventually. The Almighty was still around when the Heralds did their thing. (source) There is also the fact that most of the visions (except for the last in WoK) that Dalinar sees were observed by Honor. One of them is the day of Recreance which takes place after the Heralds abandon their post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traceria Posted April 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 Thanks, WeiryWriter, for providing the WoB on this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 Okay, so we've got Aharietam, then Recreance, then Honor's splintering. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) RShara, is there something I missed that says "We know for sure that the Oathpact involved only the Heralds and Honor"? I had thought that there was at least the possibility that Odium was also involved (and maybe even Cultivation, though there is no evidence of that). That would explain why the Heralds were tortured between Desolations and that their resistance to that torture determined the timing of the Desolations. I also thought (based on recent WoB that you compiled - thanks!) that the Oathpact was still in effect, though the nine Heralds believed otherwise. In other words, the Heralds believe they might have broken the Oathpact, but in fact they didn't. Whether those nine Heralds are still bound to the Oathpact despite their refusal to return for more torturing is an open question. That doesn't necessarily affect your major point - that the nine untortured Heralds are now Odium's Champions - but I did want to point this out. Edited April 3, 2014 by Confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) I swear there's a WoB on it, but suddenly I can't find it. I fail Edit: Ah, found it. I somehow managed to lose all of Luke's questions from the Dayton signing. They've been re-added now Q: How many parties were there to the original Oathpact?A: The Heralds and Honor. They thought that by walking away from their oaths, that it would break the Oathpact. They're going to find out that it's not quite as broken as they had previously thought (meaning the Heralds). Edited April 3, 2014 by RShara 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 Oh, you just made that up AFTER I raised the question! (The power of the compiler...) Thanks, RShara. You're tireless. And this does clarify some things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 Hahahaha. Sorry, I did so much copying and pasting, I must have just overwritten it without realizing. I didn't make it up, I swear! Back to the subject...I'm not sure what the not-so-broken Oathpact would mean to the other 9 Heralds. Would that make them more, or less open to Odium's influence? Hmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopen Skybreaker Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 I expect for a few of them at least, finding out their oaths aren't completely broken will lead them to some kind of redemption, taking up their honourblades again. More than one of them I fully expect to go all crazy bad guy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entropicscholar Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 (edited) Okay, so we've got Aharietam, then Recreance, then Honor's splintering. Got it. I'm not convinced that Honor ever was splintered. Clearly he died, but with everything said by and about The Stormfather in WoR, I think there's a strong possability that the shard itself is still intact. My Theory is still a fledgeling one, but ... spren are "powers made sentient"; the Stormfather claims to be both a spren and a god. He also claims to be a "Sliver", and I only recal one other instance of that claim (Mistborn: Lord Ruler). ----------- also: Hahahaha. Sorry, I did so much copying and pasting, I must have just overwritten it without realizing. I didn't make it up, I swear! Back to the subject...I'm not sure what the not-so-broken Oathpact would mean to the other 9 Heralds. Would that make them more, or less open to Odium's influence? Hmmm.... My thought on this is that the Oathpact a cause-effect agreement that Honor presented to the Heralds, and that they accepted. The heralds promises X, Y, and Z, and Q, R, and S happen as a result. The heralds may have broken their end of the bargan, but the agreement itself still exists. Because of that, if any of the Heralds were to once again begin fulfillng the responsabilities they agreed to, the benefits would return as well. Beyond that, because the Heralds agreed in the first place, They are likely to experience several things that push them towards the fulfillng of their Oaths. Though I couldn't guess as to the specific consequences the Heralds will face, I'm comfortable in saying that life will probably get less and less comfortable for them until they start fulfilling their Oaths (particularly with the return of Odium--many of the promises they made are likely in regards to protecting the world from him) Edited April 6, 2014 by entropicscholar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 I'm not convinced that Honor ever was splintered. Let me share this WoB: Andrea Digney Was Honor Splintered? Brandon Sanderson Was Honor Splintered? ooh someone's been paying attention, very much. I would say that yes Honor was Splintered. That is a very important question to be asking, someone really knows their stuff. (source) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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