Why Nalan is Emotionless

[Confused]

Nalan has consumed too much stormlight over the millennia. Syl says too much stormlight is “dangerous.” We know it leaches the soul by lightening eye color. I think the corollary is that increased Investiture forces out emotion to the point of having “dead eyes.”

 

My evidence is from the Taravangian interlude. Szeth is described as looking at Adrotagia “with those too-blank eyes of his.” Then Taravangian observes:

 

“Those eyes. The tone of the man’s voice. A dangerous tone. What –

 

“He spoke with emotion, Taravangian realized. That last sentence was said with passion.”

 

Szeth, like Nalan, has used his Honorblade way too much over the preceding six years. He has used excessive stormlight. It has killed his emotions. Szeth's expression of emotion surprises Taravangian.

 

The same with Nalan. Many of us have posited that Nalan was the Herald that returned for his Honorblade. Honorblades are inefficient users of stormlight, making them, as Syl says, dangerous. WoB is that Cosmere magic acts by

 

“wedging open cracks in the soul by letting the Investiture come in, and it can open the cracks more.”

 

The cracks in the soul let the emotions out, just as Investiture comes in. That is why both Szeth and Nalan have “dead eyes” and are emotionless.

[Crazy Mraize]

I think you contradicted yourself there, you claim both are emotionless, yet Szeth shows emotion. I think Szeth and Nalan both live strictly to a code, honor/justice. That code allows for no emotion, just pure application.

[RShara]

I think what was meant by that is similar to what happens to a Savant--it messes with their sDNA to the point where the effects are enhanced and permanent.  So a Stormlight addict might not be able to sit still can't stop feeding off of Stormlight.

 

I don't think Szeth is emotionless either.  Kind of the opposite, really.  Brandon's really good at showing-not-telling so I can't point to specific phrases very easily, but here are a couple from the conversation with Nale.

 

 

“Why save me?” Szeth said. “Is my torment not enough?”

...

Szeth squeezed his eyes shut. The screams awaited him in that darkness. The screams of those he’d killed.

 

He's still feeling tormented and tortured and guilty.

For Nale's lack of emotion, I'm not entirely sure what's going on.  It does seem like something supernatural is happening with him though.

 

I'm evolving a theory that the Heralds are now champions of Odium, which is why they're all opposites or corrupt versions of what they used to stand for.

[Patrick Star]

I think that Nalan has simply accepted the single most important truth that any person, dragon, herald, skaa, spren, returned, or shard is able to discover: He is a Stick!!!

[Kobold King]

I think that Nalan has simply accepted the single most important truth that any person, dragon, herald, skaa, spren, returned, or shard is able to discover: He is a Stick!!!

 

If that were true, he wouldn't be grim and murder-y. He would simply take Ym and Lift out for long walks through the forest, attempting to convert them to Stickiness.

 

On topic, I wonder if Nale's emotion (or lack thereof) has something to do with Mrall's mysterious ability to switch emotions on and off.

[Chrono]

I always assumed that Nale's repression of emotion came with the psychological and physical torture between desolations. If you don't feel anything, then you can't feel pain. When he talks to Szeth, he says that he will teach him the path of one uncorrupted by sentiment. Nale's had to deal with the weight of breaking the Oathpact for thousands of years. Carrying that sort of guilt makes you dead on the inside.

[lookingglass]

I think that Nalan has simply accepted the single most important truth that any person, dragon, herald, skaa, spren, returned, or shard is able to discover: He is a Stick!!!

 

I think its the opposite. He hasn't let the stick into his heart thus he is all dead inside. In a 'sticky' situation (when he left his honor blade) he chose the path of fire rather than that of the stick!

[Confused]

It's precisely because Szeth never expresses emotion that, when he does, Taravangian is shocked. Maybe its just PTSD, but the similar descriptions of Nalan's and Szeth's eyes can't be coincidental. Also, you can't point to post-rebirth Szeth comments to prove that he had emotions pre-rebirth.

 

And "the person who calls himself Taln" is batty too from the torture, But he doesn't have "dead eyes" and is emotionless. In fact, his concern for life kicks in to save Amaram from the darts.

[Aiken Frost]

And "the person who calls himself Taln" is batty too from the torture, But he doesn't have "dead eyes" and is emotionless. In fact, his concern for life kicks in to save Amaram from the darts.

 

People can suffer diferent emotional scars from the same torturous event.

[Adamantame]

I thought Szeth was emotionless due to being ordered to mass murder Roshar's leaders and along with the leaders' men. I think that would probably desensitize anyone. For Nalan I agree with the theory that states he has a fabrial that can take away your soul, or like Chrono said, his breaking of the Oathpack made him emotionless.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Adamantame

[Leuthie]

I like equating excessive Stormlight use with being a Savant in Mistborn. The magic starts to take over with increased use, usurping your Spiritual and Cognitive aspects.

I can't equate Szeth and Nalan. Szeth exuded emotion when on screen. He often detached when killing, but that's not being emotionless; that's simply a technique for getting through trauma. Nalan's lack of emotion might be related, but he has much more emotion 6 years prior at Galivars death when Jasnah sees him walking down a hallway.

In the proceeding 6 years he's been hurried trying to protect the world and has changed himself through that work. A Stormlight/ Justice spren Savant, if you will.

[NeutroniumAlchemist]

I simply think it's in Nalans nature to be emotionless, IMO he received his 'job' as herald for that particular trait to uphold the law, no matter what, even tough you forgot to file the proper paperwork to kill an annoying child. 

If Szeth got emotionless in only 6years! then the original KRs, who presumably lived through between desolations, must surely have gotten corrupted aswell, even taking in to account that he drains a little more Stormlight with that Honorblade than a KR would with a bonded Shardblade.  

Also, in the prologue the other when Jasnah overhear two heralds talking, they surly seem to express emotion that that monster has your masters blade. 

Edited April 2, 2014 by NeutroniumAlchemist

[+rhaiynebow]

I agree that Nalan is most definitely a "black and white, NO GRAY" kind of guy...BUT, with how much his lack of emotion is called out in our encounters with him, I think there's more to it than it just being his personality. Either he did something purposely to remove his emotions in order to allow him to more effectively make appropriate judgments without emotional influence, OR, it could possibly be something that is part of the Skybreakers abilities due to bond/honorblade/stormlight. And by that, I mean maybe he has the ability to "turn off" his emotions (i.e. remove/block his soul) at will. I say that because in the LIft interlude, she does see one emotion from him (bafflement I think it was). Other than that, I don't recall him showing any emotion at all. Also, I wondered about this statement in regards to Mrall, Taravangian's "bodyguard".

 

"Do not take pleasure in suffering," Taravangian replied. "Even when it is a work of our hands." He took a bite of the mush.

"Particularly when it is a work of our hands."

"As you wish. I will do so no more."

"Can you really change that easily?" Taravangian asked. "Turn off your emotions on a whim?"

"Of course," Mrall said.

Something about that tickled at Taravangian, some thread of interest. If he had been in one of his more brilliant states, he might have seized upon it - but today, he sensed thought seeping away like water between fingers.

 

 

So there's something strange about Mrall, or maybe his ability to turn on/off emotion that Mr. T notices too. I thought that maybe Mrall is Nalan undercover, but that just doesn't seem right. I feel like maybe Mrall is part of the KR and possibly a Skybreaker under Nalan would be the better potential option here. Thoughts?

[Swimmingly]

Or maybe the slow insanity of an immortality wracked by guilt and absolute, gradually twisting dedication to a fanatic cause at the head of a cult based around justice and murder of Surgebinders?

[Ren]

Actually, I believe that Nale is probably the only Herald that didn't lose his mind during the last 4.5k years.
 

 

And thus were the disturbances in the Revv toparchy quieted, when, upon their ceasing to prosecute their civil dissensions, Nalan’Elin betook himself to finally accept the Skybreakers who had named him their master, when initially he had spurned their advances and, in his own interests, refused to countenance that which he deemed a pursuit of vanity and annoyance; this was the last of the Heralds to admit to such a patronage

If you look at the epigraphs about the Skybreakers and how Nale was the last Herald to accept an Order under his wing, because he deemed it unnecessarily and bothersome. And as far as I can tell from his interaction with Szeth, he has finally found someone who can follow a code, law and order, even in the name of his own undoing.

I think Nale liked Szeth, because Szeth is very much like him. Also, I think the former Skybreakers weren't as obedient and lawful as they are depicted in the books. And that's why I think Nale never grew fond of them.

As far as I can tell, Nale has been trying to keep Order and Peace and it might have been his job that there weren't any Desolations in the last 4.5k years. Also, he still follows the law, no matter what, that can be seen in Lift interlude. Emotions doesn't have any place in his job, the way I see it. He just does everything he can to keep order.

Some of the other candidates for Heralds, that we suspect, have gone mad or seems pretty close to jumping from a cliff.

That might be, because I suspect Stormlight is addictive, especially through Honorblade. Something like flaring too much metals in Allomancy, you get hard side effects, sometimes you die. Stormlight, on the other hand, could drive you mad or something, idk.

[kaellok]

Actually, I believe that Nale is probably the only Herald that didn't lose his mind during the last 4.5k years.

 

Some of the other candidates for Heralds, that we suspect, have gone mad or seems pretty close to jumping from a cliff.

Snippy snip snip snip!

 

So, Nalan is definitely insane in WoR.  Maybe he was insane before he became a Herald; I don't know.  But he currently seems to meet the criteria for the WHO's ICD-10 diagnosis of dissocial personality disorder (similar to but not the same as the APA's DSM-IV-TR's antisocial personality disorder.  Both of these diagnostic measures draw upon historical psychopathy and sociopathy.  To qualify, the person must demonstrate 3 of the below conditions (pasted from wikipedia, the most trustworthy of all sites, so taken with a huge grain of salt).  I've taken the liberty of marking the ones that Nalan demonstrates in bold: 

1. Callous unconcern for the feelings of others;
2. Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations;
3. Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them;
4. Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence;
5. Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment;
6. Marked readiness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.

Obviously, I'm no psychiatrist, and there's more to a diagnosis than simply reading second-hand accounts of someone's actions.  But, he seems really close to criminally insane (if not already past the edge), not someone in perfect mental health.

 

Further, there is increasing confidence that emotions are a necessary and critical component of decision-making (both literally and figuratively).  If Nalan had come to the decision to eliminate Surgebinders before they could become full KR, and then had his ability to feel emotions ripped out of him, it is then highly likely that he would never be able to make the decision to stop.  

 

Is he sane?  No.  Is he the most sane just because he's not a gibbering wreck, and is still capable of functioning?  Well, you might have me there, but an irrational urge to destroy anything that depicts an image of you seems far more sane than a compunction to kill humans without mercy or remorse.

 

I do really like the idea of extended use of an Honorblade forcing too much Stormlight through you too quickly and having adverse affects, likely depending on the type of Spren you're bonded to.  Just like a Tineyes savant would be different than a Pewter savant.  Assuming, of course, that the Spren is the Roshar 'equivalent' to the metals.  I was reading a very good thread about this the other day, but I seem to have misplaced the link for now.

Edited April 3, 2014 by kaellok

[Numb]

I've been rereading Lift's interlude and something caught my eye

 

For once, he showed an emotion. Bafflement. "All that," he said, "for a roll?

 

He might seem emotionless almost all the time but he definitely does have emotions so I don't think it's something supernatural. 

Edited April 4, 2014 by Numb

[Vasteel]

Now I’m not ruling out any supernatural possibilities for his obvious lack of emotion. However, let’s look at it this way.

               

Imagine going around with nothing on your mind except finding and “murdering” surge-binders to stop a desolation from returning, whether or not you could somehow justify that in some kind of weird saving the planet nonsense. You would eventually die inside. Also, after fighting and dieing against however many desolations originally, just to accept you couldn’t or can’t do it anymore and then abandon your oaths. Nale would have to be screwed up.

In my opinion anyways