Ask Axelius Anything* (AKA Sanderson vs. Tolkien Duel)

[Voidus]

2 hours ago, Ookla the Indefatigable said:

Rebuttals:

1. Galadriel has the ability to read the mind of the enemy, which would presumably alert her to the fact that silver counteracts shades.

2. Assuming that Unlight functions as investiture. If not, then Ungoliant would be able to take out the edgedancer/any other knight radiant who gets remotely close to her before they have time to react. If Unlight does function as investiture, Nightblood wins and becomes king of the universe. In addition you'd have to do it before the boundless holds of orcs, dragons, and balrogs killed them.

3. A knight radiant wielding nightblood would A.) Not be able to get close enough to Ungoliant to use it before she killed them and B.) Probably die because Nightblood ate them. Again, if Unlight is investiture Nightblood wins

4.) Soulcasting enough Unlight to enshroud Ungoliant, a creature many times larger than Melkor who was in turn larger than any man or elf would again take the vast amounts of stormlight that are probably unattainable.

1- At some point maybe, but if we reach that kind of tactical level then all silver could have been soucast to smoke at that point. And if not, Shades have been in play for long enough to do a lot.

2. This was a rebuttal to your point that Ungoliant could just absorb Stormlight, my point is that if Ungoliant can do that then the cosmere can counter as mentioned, if she can't absorb Stormlight then your previous rebuttal no longer stands so the original problem is still in effect. And lets not pretend than an Orc is going to be remotely helpful here. Dragons and Balrogs also lack any definitive way to kill a full KR. Shardblades would handily deal with either.

3. a - Speculation, also Elsecallers.
3. b - That's just a matter of having enough Investiture. But again. Elsecall to Ungoliant. Unsheathe Nightblood. Stab. Sheathe Nightblood. Easily enough Investiture to do that.

4. larger than something that's larger than something that's larger than a man is not difficult. People are tiny. Soulcasters regularly Soulcast buildings without needing any special effort. If not, use Elantrians.

 

 

2 hours ago, Ookla the Indefatigable said:

New Points:

1.) LoTR characters such as Luthien can change their appearance. Good luck trying to fight someone if they can camouflage themselves amongst your ranks.

2.) The ring of power Nenya provides a protection that is nearly impenetrable 

3.) It's for all intents and purposes impossible to kill Tom Bombadil in his domain, so the cosmere could never totally subjugate Arda.

4.) The many dragons of middle earth are nearly unkillable by mortal weapons, and the heat of their flames coupled with flight would make it difficult for even a knight radiant to get close while using Nightblood.

5.) Uruk-Hai breed like rabbits. Even Nightblood can eventually be taken down by a force larger in size. 

6.) Ancalagon the Black, largest of the dragons, was large enough to crush a mountain range when he fell from the sky. Have fun getting your armies/shardbearers/knights radiant out of the way in time!

7.) Huan the wolf can only be killed by "The greatest wolf who ever lived" (Carcharoth), and as they're fighting together against the Cosmere, Huan is invincible.

8.) Even the lesser spirits, or Maia, have the power to reshape the world to their liking. This is rivaled only by the powers of shard bearers, which are possibly not even a factor in this battle due to you saying "No pantheons this time"

1. Kandra. Cosmere wins this contest with consumate ease.
2. Nearly being the keyword here. But also, Aonic shields, same thing, mass scale. Cosmere wins this contest too.
3. The cosmere could move their entire force to the CR and also be untouchable. So sure, they can maybe force a situation where there is one person left on Middle Earth. I'd still call that a victory.
4. Shardblades aren't mortal weapons. Two orders of KR can very easily fly themselves and also heal from fire in seconds, Elantrians can teleport and also heal and also shield fire and also use something that is not a mortal weapon to kill dragons. Or the cosmere Dragons kill them.
5. Koloss breed based on what they kill, or a group of KRs just kill them faster than they breed, or an army of Seers murder them all or an army of Listeners murder them all or an army of Shades walk through them, murdering them all... I could go on if you'd like? Let's not pretend Uruks or Koloss footsoldiers are going to sway this in any way. And actually, if Nightbloods wielder was taken down, one of the Uruks would pick it up and kill themself and all the other Uruks, so no it couldn't be overwhelmed.
6. Aonic shield, crushes himself. Or Elsecalled out of the way, or falls on the middle earth army instead because he gets lashed there...
7. Kill the other one, create a Lifeless, it kills Huan. Or Elsecall it to the CR or deep space and it's no threat. Or Forge it to no longer have that ability then kill it then it's already dead so it stays dead.
8. Stormfather, Nightwatcher, Ascended Vin, Ascended Kelsier, Nightblood...
Also if you're saying they're the same strength as a pantheon then they'd also be a pantheon and thus not allowed.
But actually I thought you were the one who suggested no pantheon, if you're ok with a Pantheon then the God Beyond instantly kills everything on the Middle earth side and it becomes a battle between gods, which there is no way to rule one way or another so Stalemate.

EDIT: Final note - Even if you managed to destroy the bodies of everyone in the cosmere, the army is going to be comprised of Invested individuals which means they could all stick around as cognitive shadows. Best case scenario would be a stalemate, it would be literally impossible for them to win.

[+Doomstick he/him]

Cosmere. Why? 2 words 

Spoiler

God Beyond 

 

[Gancho Libre he/him]

I would like to point out that Shades, Spren, and Cognitive Shadows can die, and are not as powerful as yall seem to think.

[Ashertliden]

Arien is a Maia who guides the sun through the sky. We know that the protectors of the celestial bodies can move them to their will as Tilion, guardian of the moon, was able to steer the moon near the sun. If the LOTR Characters came to the cosmere, Arien could steer the sun through planets, obliterating them entirely. 

[Voidus]

9 hours ago, Ookla the Indefatigable said:

Arien is a Maia who guides the sun through the sky. We know that the protectors of the celestial bodies can move them to their will as Tilion, guardian of the moon, was able to steer the moon near the sun. If the LOTR Characters came to the cosmere, Arien could steer the sun through planets, obliterating them entirely. 

And a Shard could move the planet away at the same rate and would also survive this completely even if they didn't, as could anyone who used the Well.
Also, guardian of a sun != guardian of every star in a universe you don't even exist in.
Failing all of that, worldhoppers.
 

11 hours ago, Ookla the Libre said:

I would like to point out that Shades, Spren, and Cognitive Shadows can die, and are not as powerful as yall seem to think.

Shades can be killed, Spren can't really be killed by anything of LoTR lore that I can think of, nor can cognitive shadows, particularly if they just sit in the CR since they wouldn't even be able to access the CR.
They're not necessarily powerful enough to win the war, but they'd survive it.

[Rashek of Bridge Four he/him]

Without Ea, Sanderson destroys Middle-Earth.

With Ea, Middle-Earth destroys Sanderson.

Without all gods and angels, Ummmmm.

That is where I need popcorn.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Rashek of Bridge Four

[A Secret Corner he/him]

24 minutes ago, Rashek of Bridge Four said:

Without Ea, Sanderson destroys Middle-Earth.

With Ea, Middle-Earth destroys Sanderson.

Without all gods and angels, Ummmmm.

That is where I need popcorn.

Illuvatar is the better term, fight me, 

but anyways, depending on how we consider it, I don't think that we can say whether that's true. In Tolkien's case, he just doesn't write in enough limitations or lack thereof to make solid judgments, and in Sanderson's case, I don't think we know enough about Adonalsium and it's Shattering, the God Beyond, etc. to understand well the limitations and play. The way I see it, both universes have had God and their own pantheons. 

Also, without Gods and pantheons... well it would be pretty scenic.

[Sherlock Holmes he/him]

Tolkien wins any way you look at it. He has Ungoliant, who kills everything, can suck the juice out of anything, and is just awesome. Ask my profile background. Also, ya see that elf in the bottom left corner of my profile pic? That's Fingolfin, who fought Morgoth. Discarding all magic, the sheer bravery and battle skill of the elves, men, dwarves, and orcs would slay y'all's Parsh and humans. 

[King Cole he/him]

1 hour ago, AxeliustheGreat said:

Tolkien wins any way you look at it. He has Ungoliant, who kills everything, can suck the juice out of anything, and is just awesome. Ask my profile background. Also, ya see that elf in the bottom left corner of my profile pic? That's Fingolfin, who fought Morgoth. Discarding all magic, the sheer bravery and battle skill of the elves, men, dwarves, and orcs would slay y'all's Parsh and humans. 

Discounting all magic takes away the essence of these two though. 

If you do take away gods, TLR still exists. He's a counter to anything that has a physical form and can die

[Ashertliden]

 

1 hour ago, Ookla the King said:

If you do take away gods, TLR still exists. He's a counter to anything that has a physical form and can die

1.) Vin meets both those requirements and he couldn’t counter her. 

2.) Many of the characters in LOTR could easily kill TLR, such as Ancalagon the Black, Glaurung, Morgoths’ wolf (possibly), any of the Istarii, Ungoliant, or an elvish archer using wooden arrows. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Kal-Eldin

[King Cole he/him]

17 minutes ago, Kal-Eldin said:

2.) Many of the characters in LOTR could easily kill TLR, such as Ancalagon the Black, Glaurung, Morgoths’ wolf (possibly), any of the Istarii, Ungoliant, or a horde of elvish archers using wooden arrows. 

Maybe, but he could kill them at literal lightspeed

[Ashertliden]

1 hour ago, Ookla the King said:

Maybe, but he could kill them at literal lightspeed

How so? Compounding only works so far. 

Quote

Questioner[PENDING REVIEW]

I'm just curious about Steelrunners. I have to ask, assuming they have physical limitations?

Brandon Sanderson[PENDING REVIEW]

They do. We can't go Speed Force on this sort of thing. Wind resistance is still a thing, and stuff like that.

Questioner[PENDING REVIEW]

Bodily, their bodies--

Brandon Sanderson[PENDING REVIEW]

Yeah. So, most magic in the cosmere will strengthen your body to let you use the magic to an extent, but-- Yeah, there's some pretty strong limitations.

Questioner[PENDING REVIEW]

If you had a steel/steel Twinborn racing a pewter/steel, would you say that the pure steel, or the pewter burning to enhance their body-- in a short race?

Brandon Sanderson[PENDING REVIEW]

Who would win? Probably pewter then, at that point. I would have to have Peter-- I wouldn't do it myself, make Peter run the math, and see what he comes up with. Those are the sort of things I go to him with.

source

This is even assuming he is aware of the threat and has time to react. A silent elf assassin shooting him through the neck with a wooden arrow from behind would probably prove fatal. 

[King Cole he/him]

7 minutes ago, Kal-Eldin said:

How so? Compounding only works so far. 

This is even assuming he is aware of the threat and has time to react. A silent elf assassin shooting him through the neck with a wooden arrow from behind would probably prove fatal. 

Gold Healing

[Ashertliden]

10 hours ago, Ookla the King said:

Gold Healing

How would gold healing “kill them at literal lightspeed”?

[Gancho Libre he/him]

It wouldn't. It would take a spankin' lot of gold to regrow your entire body from being exploded into a million pieces.

[Sherlock Holmes he/him]

Yeah... even discounting pantheons, Tolkien still has Ungoliant, Ancalagon, Smaug, etc. KRs might be fast, but they can be burned to ashes by a dragon's fire. Also, Sanderson has three experienced Windrunners (Kaladin, Jezrien, and that one guy from Dalinar's vision), while Tolkien has, well, at least five enormous dragons. Also, dragons can curse people. Remember that one guy who got cursed by a dragon he'd slain, then ended up being haunted by that curse for the rest of his miserable life, eventually dying alone after betraying his people? One not-all-that-powerful dragon did that. Also, yup, Galadriel. She can read minds. Boom. Just won the war. You can't lose a war if you know what your enemy is going to do.

[Furamirionind They/Any/All]

Dont forget Sanderson has spaceships, bombers and stuff now...

Can we also count planeswalkers? Sanderson has MTG planeswalkers now. In MTG lore, I think some of them have power that could rival a shard...

[Nathrangking he/him]

@AxeliustheGreatIf A squared plus B squared equals C squared then what do you get when you add the sixth of dusk squared plus 10 heralds squared?

If shalebark grows in a forest and no one sees it, how much does tallew cost in Azir? 

If not now then when?

Edited December 24, 2018 by Nathrangking

[Sherlock Holmes he/him]

15 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

@AxeliustheGreatIf A squared plus B squared equals C squared then what do you get when you add the sixth of dusk squared plus 10 heralds squared?

If shalebark grows in a forest and no one sees it, how much does tallew cost in Azir? 

If not now then when?

1. Oh, that's a hard one. I'd have to say you'd be about thirty paces from Kelsier, twenty from Endowment.

2. Depends on the condition of the farmer's wife. If she's happy, about thirty pounds, without shipping and handling. If she's not, there is no tallew because the farmer didn't grow any, instead seeking solace in the forest, where he was the first to see the growing shalebark.

3. Whenever the hell I feel like it!

[Ashertliden]

@AxeliustheGreat

Should I take the red pill, the blue pill, or continue to insist on water?

Edit: And how’s the road to Tinuë?

Edited December 24, 2018 by Ashertliden

[Sherlock Holmes he/him]

2 hours ago, Ashertliden said:

@AxeliustheGreat

Should I take the red pill, the blue pill, or continue to insist on water?

Edit: And how’s the road to Tinuë?

1. BLUE PILL.

2. I don't know; I'm still about Halfway to Newarre.

[+Ark1002]

Why did you put a quote that I put in my signature in yours?

Do you like heavy metal? Guac? Eggnog?

[Sherlock Holmes he/him]

49 minutes ago, Ark1002 said:

Why did you put a quote that I put in my signature in yours?

Do you like heavy metal? Guac? Eggnog?

1. Because I thought it was funny.

2. Nope. Yes. Never tried it. 

[+Ark1002]

Just now, AxeliustheGreat said:

Nope. Yes. Never tried it.

What's wrong with you?
How much?

WHY???

[Sherlock Holmes he/him]

Just now, Ark1002 said:

What's wrong with you?
How much?

WHY???

1. I'm a high-functioning sociopath. 

2. A lot, but only the homemade stuff.

3. Don't know.