Captain America: The Winter Soldier

[Quiver he/him]

So, I just got back from seeing The Winter Soldier, and was wondering what people's thoughts on it were.

[The Question he/him]

You lucky bastard! It doesn't come out until next week here.

No spoilers, please, but what did you think of it?

[bartbug he/him]

When I read this post, my first action was to check the date on my computer. You storming son of a Parshendi, you.

 

I second the motion: No spoilers, but how was it?

[Quiver he/him]

Spoiler free?

 

I enjoyed it. It reminded me of the first Cap film, in the best way. Captain America is my favourite of the Phase One films because it's played so straight as a War film. Winter Soldier has the same feeling, except now it's an espionage/spy drama. The action is well paced; if you've seen the trailers, you've seen the eponymous soldier at one point, and he is pretty cool. If I had a complaint that I can make (without spoiling) it's that I wish we had gotten even more of the Soldier than what we got.

 

I'd say this is better than The Dark World... but I dunno if I rank it above Iron Man 3. As controversial as that movie was, I still really liked the Mandarin in it. That being said, I kind of suspect I'll rewatch Winter Soldier more than either of them, which puts it at the top of the Phase Two films.

 

(Oh, and stay for the credits. As well as the traditional after-credits scene, there's another scene at the very end, which I missed.)

 

Spoilers territory:

The Winter Soldier plot reveal wasn't a surprise for me, because I knew, way back before the first Cap film was released, that Bucky was going to become him. It's just a comic book spoiler, so I can't say how effective it was for a non-comic reading audience. For me... well. I liked Winter Soldier, but for a movie bearing his name, I wish we had more of him. The mythos built around him is pretty cool, as is Pierce's comments about him shaping history; I just wish we had gotten more of it.

 

It's also a case where the adaption doesn't really make much sense. In the comics, Bucky was recovered by the Russians, and worked for them; it's why he was called the Winter Soldier and why his robot arm had the Red Star on it. The design doesn't quite work as well in the film, because it doesn't 'fit' with the MCU, but that's a minor point I can overlook. 

 

The bait-and-switch of Winter Soldier for Pierce is why I say this film kind of reminds me of Iron Man 3, where we were told it would be one villain and instead got another. I have to say that I like the idea presented in the film, but I wish they had taken it to the more logical conclusion; namely that HYDRA would be subsumed by SHIELD. It was neat to see a Cap film dealing with the digital age, but the fact that the villains of the film all knew they were really working for HYDRA ruined a part of the message for me. It would have been far more interesting, to me, if HYDRA had infiltrated SHIELD, and was acting in it's name; Pierce, the Senator, the guards, all believing they were working under the mandate of SHIELD. It seems like a more interesting and subversive message; having everyone know they were working for HYDRA kind of undermines it a little.

 

Because seriously? If you say 'Hail Hydra', you might as well twirl your moustache while you're at it.

 

The ending, with SHIELD being dismantled is intriguing, and I'm particular curious to see how this plays out on Agents, not to mention what this means for Samuel L Jackson's role in the future. It's another similarity to Iron Man 3; I walked out of the cinema feeling both films weren't so much a start to a new Phase of the Marvel plan as much as they were book ends for the first one. 

 

The ending? Sequel Bait. But sequel bait I'm okay with; again, I want more of the Winter Soldier, and now that Cap has cleaned the decks, I'm hoping that the next film (supposing there is a third film) will be a gut-wrenching emotional roller coaster of redemption and tragedy.

 

[Tamzin Ashevai she/her]

Simply going to see it when I can; I don't know when. Soon, I hope.

[Chuckles]

WARNING: KIND OF SPOILERY SPOILERS

I liked it. It was odd, in that Iron man 3 was odd. It was clearly a blockbuster, but with a weird streak. I still find IM3's weirdness streak hard to describe. However CAWS is more clear, in that it's a paranoid spy movie mashed with a superhero movie, and it mostly works. As a European, the "Fall" of America as pop-culture's moral guardian is always interesting, and it was interesting that a "safe" movie addressed it. 
 

As pure spectacle, the action was ok, and my inner pedant grated at the whole "build a multi-trillion dollar secret base under a major city" thing. Superhero movie and all, but those logistics are impossible. 

 

Anyway, it was good, probably the best one of Marvel Cinematic Universe Tier 2, close with IM3. 

[+Quitecontrary she/her]

I loved it. Humor was great, action scenes weren't overdone. It showcased the valiant Captain America to a tee.

And is it just me, or is Buck wearing Shardplate on his left arm?

[bartbug he/him]

Thought it was the best of the Stage 2 Movies, and maybe the best Marvel movie. 

 

I agree that I would have wished that none of the bad guys realized that they knew they were working for Hydra, but it was (kind of) set up that way. Namely, that Hydra founded Shield, and how they were essentially the same. 

 

After Thor 2, it was a really nice surprise to see this.

Edited April 5, 2014 by bartbug

[Awesomeness Summoned he/him]

Thought it was the best of the Stage 2 Movies, and maybe the best Marvel movie.

Completely agree. It'll take a few more viewings to be sure, but I'm pretty close to putting it ahead of the first Iron Man (avengers still tops the list)

I especially thought they did an outstanding job of making Cap look like the hand to hand badass he's supposed to be. He just devastated people in some of those action scenes and it felt believable how they portrayed it.

[Briar King]

This movie really makes me wonder where Shield TV show is going.

Awesome movie!

[GreyPilgrim he/him]

Ok. I am probably the only person still watching Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D show. I haven't seen the movie yet, but based on it, without spoilers, should I risk watching tonight's episode? Or just wait until I see the movie then watch the episode?

[Kurkistan he/him]

Ok. I am probably the only person still watching Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D show. I haven't seen the movie yet, but based on it, without spoilers, should I risk watching tonight's episode? Or just wait until I see the movie then watch the episode?

 

OPTION 2. Heck, don't even watch previews of tonight's episode.

[GreyPilgrim he/him]

OPTION 2. Heck, don't even watch previews of tonight's episode.

Oh dear. Thanks, I'll DVR it and watch it later.

[Briar King]

Anyone else think of Skies of Arcadia at one point? Made me want to hook my Dreamcast back up.

[Ryan he/him]

I had only three gripes with it:

1. Shaky cam is about 10 times worse in IMAX 3d, especially since the 3d was of relatively poor quality.

2. The whole time I'm thinking, "why does everybody aim for the shield?"

Three is spoilery:

There wasn't a lot of narrative tension. OF COURSE Nick Fury isn't dead; and gee, I wonder if Captain America will succeed?

Other than that, it was a fantastic film with a few narrative twists that I, as a non reader of the comics, absolutely did not see coming. I especially thought that Falcon added a lot to the team and the film. So, bravo again, Marvel. They just keep getting better.

[Awesomeness Summoned he/him]

2. The whole time I'm thinking, "why does everybody aim for the shield?"

Totally agree with that one. Don't know how many times I thought, "seriously? just shoot his legs."

[Quiver he/him]

WARNING: KIND OF SPOILERY SPOILERS

I liked it. It was odd, in that Iron man 3 was odd. It was clearly a blockbuster, but with a weird streak. I still find IM3's weirdness streak hard to describe. However CAWS is more clear, in that it's a paranoid spy movie mashed with a superhero movie, and it mostly works. As a European, the "Fall" of America as pop-culture's moral guardian is always interesting, and it was interesting that a "safe" movie addressed it. 

 

As pure spectacle, the action was ok, and my inner pedant grated at the whole "build a multi-trillion dollar secret base under a major city" thing. Superhero movie and all, but those logistics are impossible. 

 

Anyway, it was good, probably the best one of Marvel Cinematic Universe Tier 2, close with IM3. 

 

Random point, and one of (in my opinion) the flaws of the MCU in general; what is SHIELD? The acronym has had plenty of meanings over the years, but I believe the MCU uses Strategic Homeland. So... is SHIELD an exclusively American organisation? 

Honestly... that's rather bothered me. I loved in the comics when it got expanded to an international force, working for the UN. At least that way it feels more appropriate when they get invovled internationally, because...

 

Yeah. This might alienate some of this board, but I agree; I enjoy films which examine that idea of...well, Team AMERICA! (Storm Yeah!)

Is it a fair? Probably not; after all, most big Hollywood blockbusters are made in America, for American audiences. The Marvel films come from franchises primarily based in New York

But then, I wouldn't say it was fair for everyone in the world to be waiting for America to fight back in Independence Day, either. 

 

I loved it. Humor was great, action scenes weren't overdone. It showcased the valiant Captain America to a tee.

And is it just me, or is Buck wearing Shardplate on his left arm?

 

Never thought of it as Shardplate before. I actually didn't think there was much of a need for the metal arm here; if they were going to stick with the Winter Soldiers design, they really should have built up to it in the first film. It made the flashback of him losing it feel spliced in, and, honestly, if Bucky had been running missions with the Howling Commando's after having an arm amputated?

That would have been badass. 

 

And, something else I just realised about his design... he falls into that old cliché, where the villain conceals his face for the entire movie until we know his identity. He was wearing his Bane-mask in all his appearances until we found out who he was, and then never again. Strange.

 

Ok. I am probably the only person still watching Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D show. I haven't seen the movie yet, but based on it, without spoilers, should I risk watching tonight's episode? Or just wait until I see the movie then watch the episode?

 

 

Has Agents picked up?

I watched the first half of the season and while there was good stuff in it (MELINDA MAY IS AWESOME), I also found it sort of...average. And then it took a hiatus. I've been recording all the episodes to watch in one long burn.

[Awesomeness Summoned he/him]

Agents of Shield had an alright start but I lost quite a bit of interest as the show progressed. None of the characters really resonated with me like they do in other Whedon shows. I stuck with it though since there isn't much else on that night and have actually enjoyed the last few episodes. I'm really interested to see where the show goes with where shield itself is after the events of The Winter Soldier.

[GreyPilgrim he/him]

The show is ok. I don't watch a lot of TV, so I don't have that high standards, but I will repeat Awesomeness that the characters don't really resonate, other than Coulson and maybe Fitz. The last few have been a bit better, but still not amazing. The Deathlok plot has a lot of potential. The real issue is that the show is having trouble keeping up the momentum, rarely having episodes in consecutive weeks since the second half began. I think it's worth another try if you've given up on it. It's interesting enough while you're watching it, and I have heard that TWS will really have a big impact on it. Still haven't seen it yet, though.

[Awesomeness Summoned he/him]

I have to admit, it was interesting seeing a show tie into a concurrent box office movie like that.

[WriteNowDave he/him]

Just found this thread

I must say the television series took long enough to come into its own. Now can I really call it its own since it required CA2TWS to come to fruition before they could pull the rug out from under what had been a basically bland series. I am looking forward to season 2 however.