Some thoughts on Shardplate *Some spoilers I guess*

[Zhalfirin]

I was looking through some quotes and came across this.

 

 

Q: You said that on Roshar the only reason they have aluminum is that they can Soulcast it, right? I think you said something like that … maybe?

A: (no answer)

Q: I was wondering how that would work, if an Allomancer were to--

A: Aluminum has some weird properties on all of the magic systems, not just allomancy. It does not have the same effect, but aluminum has some bizarre effects.

 

Besides the above quote there are a few other things about shardplate that I think are important in figuring out what they are.

 

 1. They require stormlight to function.

 

A lot of other posters seem to think that Shardplate comes from either a further level of declaring an Ideal or via some secondary bonded spren. This is based on that we know that Blades originate from bonded spren. But we also know that the gem placed in a bonded Shardblade can go dull and the Blade will still work perfectly fine. Shardplate on the other hand becomes completely nonfunctional once the Stormlight in its gems runs out.

 

2. The Gems in Shardplate crack from normal use.

 

In WoK when Elhokar's Plate failed they were unsure if the cracked gems were just a normal but coincidental event or purposely planned, so we know that gems failing and cracking in Shardplate is a fairly normal occurance.

 

3. The only other time we see gems cracking from normal use (that I can remember) is in Soulcasters (maybe also happens in other fabrials).

 

4. While Shardplate we see is mostly used against other Shardwielders to protect against a Shardblade, the original intent was to fight Voidbringers.

 

Okay, now onto the basic theory: Shardplate is an advance Fabrial that combines a Soulcaster (which would produce Aluminum, and allow the suit to rebuild itself) with other fabrials like an Augmenter (these might fall un der the Tension category of Surges, for increased strength) and one that deals with Cohesion (allowing the metal to constrict and lossen so it fits people of various sizes and let segments meet without joints).

 

The soulcaster builds the armor out of Aluminum as it resistant to attacks of a magic nature. We see this when Adolin is struck by the lightning created by the Parshendi and that it is completely nullified.

 

The KR built advanced fabrials that allowed them to replicate powers of other orders. I think Shardplate was their Masterpiece in that it combined the powers of many orders.

[kaellok he/him]

I was thinking something along very similar lines myself, but didn't make the connection with aluminum.  Just because all of the artifabrians thought that Blades were fabrials (and were wrong) doesn't mean that Plate isn't, after all.  And the plate seems to work similar to the Oathgates.  I can't help but feel that we're missing an integral piece of the puzzle, though.  The old KRs seem to have been able to summon and dismiss their Plate helms at will (from Dalinar's visions, where he made specific mention of being surprised by the sudden appearance or absence twice).  Also, per Dalinar's visions, they glowed and seemed somehow...more...than present day versions.

[Zhalfirin]

 The old KRs seem to have been able to summon and dismiss their Plate helms at will (from Dalinar's visions, where he made specific mention of being surprised by the sudden appearance or absence twice).  Also, per Dalinar's visions, they glowed and seemed somehow...more...than present day versions.

 

When Kaladin helped Adolin fight outnumbered in the dueling arena he takes the helm from a defeated guys Plate. While using it he finds that it has lasted through many more hits from a Shardblade then it normally would for others, but he also found it had drained a large portion of his Stormlight.

 

My guess is that while the KR fueled the Plate from the stormlight in their bodies directly it was much more effective as it allowed for more concious contol over it, like fuel the Soulcast function to dissipate the helm back to air then remake it when needed (or maybe the Cohesion to make it flow down into the suit and then back up when needed) or send Stormlight to the Soulcaster to speed up the repair.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Zhalfirin

[brasband13]

I somewhat agree with your theory that it is a massive multi-fabrial, imitating several surges, however what is your explanation for parts of shardplate as used by the KR in Dalinar's vision being able to be dismissed?

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

Hmm... hmm... 

 

i think I want to agree with this idea, but for some reason it's just not meshing with my thoughts. I feel like if it was a fabrial of somesort, that there would have been stormlight storing gems in them initially in the flashback scenes. The only reason I say that is because the Oathgate was an ancient fabrial and it had the gems storage for powering... 

 

I guess I'm in the "comes with more ideals" camp, though I don't think it necessarily is another spren, otherwise Kaladin would have heard the screaming when he picked up the helm, right?

 

Or was he already on the downslope in his bond with Syl at that point and thus not using stormlight as efficiently as he was previously? Maybe that is why no screams? 

[Tuhian she/her]

I think the shardplates are more than fabrials. Szeth mentions that the gemstones in the shardplates interfered with his lashings (surgebinding) which would have made it completely useless for the knight radiants but one of the knight radiants in Dalinar's vision performs regrowth wearing a glowing amber shardplate. So, I believe that whatever caused the recreance killed the sprens making the shardblade less functional as the dead-spren-shardblades could be recalled after 10 heartbeats and could not change forms. Similarily, after the recreance the shardplates became less effective as they interefered with the stormlight and would not glow as they did in Dalinar's vision of the Knight Radiants. Shardplates and shardblades are meant to be complementary so as a shardblade is a manifestation of  a bonded spren then the shardplates must be something similar, something that cannot be created like a fabrial could be it has to be something that has to be investitured hence the name shard.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Tuhian

[brasband13]

In that case, the shardplate is probably another physical manifestation of the spren.  The main force of the dead spren resides in the shardblade, which is why it does't require stormlight, but the shardplate does because is  a less complete manifestation.  For the KR, it won't interfere with Surges because it doesn't require stormlight- at leastnot in the same way.

[Tempus]

Investiture interferes with other investitures. Szeth could talk about shardplate making things difficult, because to fly or change gravity he lashes himself. We know that some orders of Radiants preferred not to wear shardplate. That doesn't discount that they could be a physical manifestation of a spren, only that Windrunners probably don't wear Shardplate regardless.

[Falconite]

Szeth mentions that the gemstones in the shardplates interfered with his lashings (surgebinding) which would have made it completely useless for the knight radiants 

 

I get the feeling that this is because using an honor blade - Szeth needs more stormlight to do things than a KR, and once the stormlight runs out, he'd be stuck!  as a KR uses less stormlight, I think this would be ok for someone like Kaladin.

[Tuhian she/her]

We know that some orders of Radiants preferred not to wear shardplate.

In Dalinar's vision of the day of recreance he saw Knight Radiants fall from the sky wearing Blue shardplates. So, I dont think that the stormlight was blocked by the shardplates in those days regardless of whether it is lashing oneself or infusing stormlight in a target object or a person and then lashing them. I mean Adolin's shardplate didnot stop Szeth from lashing him to the ceiling.

 

I think that the shardplate is malfunctioning because some essential part of it died during the recreance like the spren for a shardblade (cant be sure if it is the same for shardplates). Navani has explained that some of the half shards are made by the fabrial design but they are still missing the important piece. So, it could be that to make a full shardplate it would require the element of investiture.

 

I get the feeling that this is because using an honor blade - Szeth needs more stormlight to do things than a KR, and once the stormlight runs out, he'd be stuck!  as a KR uses less stormlight, I think this would be ok for someone like Kaladin.

Well, when Kaladin and Szeth fought during the Everstorm they were fully recharged with stormlight and to keep flying at that height it would require a lot of stormlight more than what Szeth would normally use. So, honorblades may use more stormlight but still it should not be obstructed by the shardplate.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Tuhian

[Mar10]

I don't think that plate is from another spren.  Syl doesn't seem to have any problem  witht he Plate at all, only the Blades.  Also, at the dual, Kal got such a reaction from touching a Blade that the wielder also got freaked out by it but her was able to actually use a piece of Plate (Helm).

[Numb]

The two main problems is that in Dalinar's vision he saw a helmet vanish on will and Shardplate seems to mold to it's user over time. It doesn't completely change but it does alter slightly much like shardblades(dead ones) to a slightly greater extent it seems. Honestly I don't know what shardplates are, I had a theory that they were an manipulation of stormlight and that's why they not require gems to function since the users themselves can't give the stormlight needed to keep it's form. 

[brasband13]

Mar10, I said that the essence of the dead spren was stored in the shardblade- which is why syl had no problem with the shardblade

[brasband13]

I won't discount the theory that it is manipulated stormlight, however, that seems rather plausible

[Ren he/him]

IIRC, there was a WoB that Shardplates are not fabrials, but my memory might be lying to me.

Anyway, it is plausible for a Shardplate to be of aluminium, but I still think they have some connection to Cultivation, because of the way they 'regrowth' themselves.

[Wrath]

There's definitely more to Shardplate than we yet know, just like there was more to Shardblades than we knew until the end of WoR. After all in Dalinar's visions he keeps noticing that the helmets vanish and reappear when he isn't looking, which sounds a lot like summoning and dismissing of Shardblades. And of course there are the glowing glyphs.

 

The gems strike me as a workaround that someone figured out when trying to use Shardplate after the Recreance, just like the gems on Shardblades create a ghost bond between the wielder and the spren. Real Shardplate likely fed directly on the Stormlight of the Surgebinders and was, in that way, much more efficient than a Surgebinder trying to use modern Shardplate.

[bartbug he/him]

I think that this is a really interesting theory. I definitely would not be surprised with it being aluminum, or a soulcaster, to be honest, though something about this just isn't sitting right with me.

 

I think that once we understand Soulcasters, we'll understand Shardplate, which is a connection I had not made before. Great job!

[Robot Aztec]

actaully if plate = minafested spren we know shardblades are copy of honorblades and are stuck in sowrdform because honorblads are swords so if plate = spren then they must be copy of HONORPLATE so someone should ask if honorplate is existing if it does then we know you can make sprenplate but if it doesnt then we know it is impossible

[Leuthie]

Spren are behind greatshell and chasmfiend size. Spren and gemhearts. WoB states that gemhearts grow using similar mechanics as atium in the Pits in Mistborn. Being that it would fit with intent, its possible that the body of Cultivation serves as a conduit for greatshell growth.

My theory concerning shardplate is an outgrowth of that. Namely, shardplate is Cultivations contribution to the fight, either willingly or by enterprising spren or Surgebinders. They work on similar principles to greatshells: spren bond powered by gems. At one time, these gems were replenished by Cultivation herself, allow for easy destruction and regrowth (serving to dismiss and recall the helmets, for example). Currently, the gems must be replenished as any other gem. Changes in the spren bond similar to shardblade could also diminish old capabilities.

[Arin he/him]

I posted this in a different thread earlier, but I wanted to add it to this conversation.

 

...

 

I always thought it may have to do witht he KR surges.  I don't think they all had plate.  I think those that did had surges like cohesion or adhesion.  Once it was mastered they could "build" the plate from some "material" ( I think they use it to bind lesser spren, like wind spren into plate.)

[Pathfinder]

I don't know about "binding", but I am with you Arin about lesser spren. When Kaladin was manifesting most/all of his powers in the fight with Szeth, the wind spren were drawn to him and surrounded him. Maybe when the KR reach a certain threshold, or awareness of their abilties, the lesser spren BECOME the armor. Since the lesser spren aren't cognitively aware, they wouldn't suffer the same "death" the bonded spren do hence no screaming. So it would be the bonded spren acting on the lesser spren as maybe a hive mindish kind of deal or some such? There was definitely something going on when the windspren were all over Kaladin during the fight. That much I think can be for certain. 

[Vessyr]

If it is indeed spren, then I have to agree that it would be lesser spren. Lets not forget that Shallan attracts swarms of creationspren just like Kaladin does windspren. At one point she comments on seeing more creationspren at one time than ever seeing around anyone before.

 

Anyone else notice how the armor never just shatters and falls off? It always 'explodes' sending shards in all directions. Almost like the spren making up the plate disperse. Maybe a fabrial would do the same thing but I am not sure it would.

 

When Jasnah and Shallan soulcast they bribe the spren to change their identity using stormlight. What if this is similar? KR are able to use stormlight to bind lesser spren into the armor. Then the regrowing of the armor is just paying more stormlight to attract new spren to the plate.

 

When Kaladin was in the arena, "the winds seemed to urge him on". What if he has a small connection the the windspren through Syl because she is cousin to them after all. Maybe she could tell the helm to appear/dissappear or he could give small commands like that himself to windspren.

[Shardmancer he/him]

I do like the theory that is is some sort of copy from the orignal Shardplate- Much like spren copying the Shardblades as swords of Honorblades. We know there are different types of Spren even from the ones we know- So perhaps its some sort of manipulation of the original plate worn by the Heralds. As for the misting helmets- I assume once you reach a certain level of the KR (as Sanderson describes) you can do some much cooler stuff. So at some level you can control and manipulate stormlight in all types of ways including the forming and deforming of the Shardplate.

 

We have much to learn.. Muahaha

[kaellok he/him]

Well Shardmancer, the only problem with the theory that Shardplate is a copy of the plate worn by the Heralds is that the Heralds didn't wear plate--or if they did, I'm not aware of any WoB or in-book references to indicate that they did.  The prologue of WoK doesn't mention Kalak or Jezrien wearing Plate, just their Blades.  All mention of armor is in reference to other people wearing it.  We know the Radiants wore Plate, but that's really about it.

[bludvein]

The problem with the shardplate being a fabrial is the same as its always been. If it was just an advanced fabrial, then why did only the KR have them? I doubt they were hoarding technology during a desolation. We also have the glowing glyphs and the summoning/de-summoning of the helm as further proof they aren't fabrials.

 

We can be relatively sure the Plate is a product of the KR's power in some way, even if its not the body of a spren/s(and hence not repulsive to Syl). Also, the Stormfather tells Dalinar that he will be a Radiant with no Shards. Not just without a blade. Make of that what you will.

Edited April 19, 2014 by bludvein