MountainKing Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) I was listening to a shardcast and they were complaining about how the Stormfather doesn't use the correct language to describe the Fused. This got me thinking what if the Fused are actual spren. So when Odium created the Fused, instead of pouring investiture into their spiritwebs he altered their spiritweb so that their spiritweb now resembles the spirit web of sprem. Quote THEY ARE THE SPREN OF PARSHMEN LONG DEAD. THEY ARE THEIR KINGS, THEIR LIGHTEYES, THEIR VALIANT SOLDIERS FROM LONG, LONG AGO. THE PROCESS IS NOT EASY ON THEM. SOME OF THESE SPREN ARE MERE FORCES NOW, ANIMALISTIC, FRAGMENTS OF MINDS GIVEN POWER BY ODIUM. OTHERS ARE MORE … AWAKE. EACH REBIRTH FURTHER INJURES THEIR MINDS. Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 405). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. The Rebirth Syndrome that the Fused face could be caused by the use or activation of Odium's magic, but it could also be caused by becoming spren*. Spren , even high spren, are shaped by what they represent, gloryspren seek glory, Cryptics are attracted to lies and truths, and Honorspren are honorable. It wouldn't be that big of jump to assume that is the Fused became spren of Odium they would be shaped by Odium's intent, intense hate, they would become spren that are built on hate. Pattern tells Shallan that when a Cryptic dies they become what they represent.(Can't find quote) The Fused die over and over again it would make sense that some won't be fully revived, and wouldn't fully regain their sapience, and become something that is driven by intense hatred. Odium doesn't like to invest in anything, but if he poured investiture into their spiritwebs, it would be almost impossible to get back if some of them leave Odium's side, while if he used investiture to change their spiritwebs, a small amount of the investiture will stay with the Fused, but the majority of the investiture will return to Odium. Odium would be more likely to perform this option because the Fused only follow Odium because he gives them the power to take back their world, they wouldn't follow Odium once they won Roshar, and wouldn't help him defeat other shards because they are not involved in the conflict. *When I say they become spren, I mean that become things similar to sapient spren. Edited July 13, 2018 by MountainKing Adding a Subnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ he/him Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 Personally, I think the Stormfather was just using a word that is close enough so that Dalinar and the others could understand. As far as Rosharans are concerned, all sapient (and even sentient) beings made of Investiture are spren. Heck, they would call Honor or even Adonalsium a spren. So yes, they are spren in the vaguest sense of the term. But they are more specifically Cognitive Shadows, and I believe that is the far more accurate term to call them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) The only real difference between spren and Cognitive Shadows is how they got into that state. Once they're spaient bits of investiture, they're essentially the same thing, particularly the longer they spend in that form. I'm sure Odium could take back enough of his Investiture to force them to go Beyond, or just simply Beyond-stomp them due to the vastly greater power that he has. Edited July 13, 2018 by RShara 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 And in Rosharan terminology, the Fused are Spren. Any living investiture is. The Stormfather accurately used a term that's imprecise enough to apply to anything from rotspren to Adonalsium. Quote Questioner Speaking of the Stormfather, would the Nightwatcher and the giant water spren be on the same level of spren as the Stormfather? Brandon Sanderson ...The Nightwatcher, yes. Um... There are, I would say, a level below the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher who are also much-- a much bigger deal than something like one of the sapient spren, and that's what Cusicesh is. Questioner So the Nightwatcher is a spren you'd say? Brandon Sanderson The Nightwatcher-- I mean, they call the Nightwatcher a spren. Everyone in the books thinks the Nightwatcher is a spren. That's what they would call-- that's what they would call, if they knew what Honor was, they would call Honor a spren. A spren is Investiture that is alive. Bystander Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson So they would call Nightblood a spren. They would call-- That's the word for what all of these things are. They would probably've called Adonalsium a spren… Moderator What would Hoid call one of those? Brandon Sanderson What would Hoid call the Nightwatcher? *laughter* What would Hoid call one of what? Moderator Yeah what would Hoid call the Nightwatcher? Brandon Sanderson Um… *long pause/laughter* Moderator If Hoid were to use a non-proper noun? Brandon Sanderson Unpleasant names. *laughter* source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, StrikerEZ said: Personally, I think the Stormfather was just using a word that is close enough so that Dalinar and the others could understand. As far as Rosharans are concerned, all sapient (and even sentient) beings made of Investiture are spren. Yep, he's just following Rosharan terminology here which is technically accurate even if there's a more precise term he could have used. Like Hoid at the end of Way of Kings thinking of the blade that Taln is carrying as a Shardblade rather than an Honorblade. 9 hours ago, RShara said: I'm sure Odium could take back enough of his Investiture to force them to go Beyond, or just simply Beyond-stomp them due to the vastly greater power that he has. Indeed, he even uses this as a threat against one Fused who doesn't like the idea of following a human Champion. Quote Odium smiled. “You will follow me, Turash, or I will reclaim that which gives you persistent life. I care not for the shape of the tool. Only that it cuts.” Edited July 13, 2018 by Weltall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainKing Posted July 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) I know that spren means any sentient investiture, but in this post I was referring to sapient spren when I said spren. Really what this post was about was if you all thought it was possible that instead of just pouring investiture into their souls, Odium actually changed their spiritweb to keep them a live. I know that after both processes the results are pretty much the same, but I still wonder. Edited July 13, 2018 by MountainKing Adding words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kokotheworm Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) What I am wondering about is why the fused ever agreed to be invested by Odium in the first place. If I followed the timeline correctly ancient Dawnsinger welcomed Human, at this point they are not of Honor/Tanavast but of Odium and come from a world they ravaged by using their power. I am not clear if it by surgebinding or voidbinding, but I am rather convince it is voidbinding since surgebinding is from Honor and since ,even without the Herald warning, surgebinding appear to be a investiture system who regulate itself in opposition to voidbinding. No hard proof there. So they welcome the son of Odium being urged to do so by their gods, is it Honor and Cultivation or just the spreen? If so is it the spren of Odium or the Spren of Culti and Honor? Humanity is confined to present day Shinovar, and at some point (speculation from me) split into two group those who do not leave Shinovar and are bound by the original "pact" the Shin and the other human who spread to Roshar. Then conflict erupt between Dawnsinger and those human, I highly suspect Odium and his unmade to be the driving force of this conflict. Loads of question here, are human voidbinding at the beginning of the conflict ? what power do the Dawnsinger have at their disposal to pose such a threat to human that Tanavast decide to side with them through the heralds. Since the Radiant and surgebinding appear much later after a few desolation. Regardless Odium end up investing Danwsinger making them Fused , but why would those accept? Odium is foreign to them , most likely the cause of the conflict, apart from this form of "Immortality" I don't really see why the would side with him. Edit : Nevermind it appear that the Human of Roshar were not from the 3 shard, that Odium came to Roshar after the human settled their, that human were interested in Odium more than the Dawnsinger , which might have been why a conflict arose. Edited July 14, 2018 by Kokotheworm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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