Rhapsody she/her Posted July 12, 2018 Posted July 12, 2018 @Calderisthanks for clearing that up. it explains why i couldn't find it with a quick search.
goody153 Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) I can already imagine a bunch of shards or older cosmere worldhopper already regretting the entire thing of letting Rayse in. Edited July 13, 2018 by goody153
StrikerEZ he/him Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 1 hour ago, goody153 said: I can already imagine a bunch of shards or older cosmere worldhopper already regretting the entire thing of letting Rayse in. I'm sure Aona, Skai, Uli Da, and Tanavast do..... 2
goody153 Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said: I'm sure Aona, Skai, Uli Da, and Tanavast do..... Maybe in their last moments xD
Weltall Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 I'm imagining a story. The eleven living Vessels arrive on Yolen to attend a party thrown by Frost, with Hoid acting as the butler. Sazed arrives late because he has trouble finding his way there. Just after dinner when everyone has retired to the sitting room, the spheres all go dun and the house is plunged into darkness. A scream. The lights are restored and Rayse lies dead in the center of the room, Nightblood run through his body. Everyone looks at one another and wonders: 'Who murdered this chull?'. Everyone is a suspect... 14
Leyrann Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Weltall said: I'm imagining a story. The eleven living Vessels arrive on Yolen to attend a party thrown by Frost, with Hoid acting as the butler. Sazed arrives late because he has trouble finding his way there. Just after dinner when everyone has retired to the sitting room, the spheres all go dun and the house is plunged into darkness. A scream. The lights are restored and Rayse lies dead in the center of the room, Nightblood run through his body. Everyone looks at one another and wonders: 'Who murdered this chull?'. Everyone is a suspect... I want Brandon to write a non-canon short story about this. 2
Wander89 he/him Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 17 hours ago, Weltall said: If you've read Mistborn Secret History you've missed nothing, that contains the best explanation we've got so far (ie 'the Vessels' motives varied') and we're not likely to get much more until Dragonsteel comes out. So get comfy, we'll be here a while. I did read SH so now I don't feel as much out the loop. Best give these another read through
Totally_Not_A_Worldhopper she/her Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 On 12/07/2018 at 10:51 PM, Weltall said: I'm imagining a story. The eleven living Vessels arrive on Yolen to attend a party thrown by Frost, with Hoid acting as the butler. Sazed arrives late because he has trouble finding his way there. Just after dinner when everyone has retired to the sitting room, the spheres all go dun and the house is plunged into darkness. A scream. The lights are restored and Rayse lies dead in the center of the room, Nightblood run through his body. Everyone looks at one another and wonders: 'Who murdered this chull?'. Everyone is a suspect... This sounds awesome and I want someone to write it. You know what, I might go do that. After I research the vessels a lot more.
StrikerEZ he/him Posted July 22, 2018 Posted July 22, 2018 On 7/19/2018 at 1:19 PM, Totally_Not_A_Worldhopper said: This sounds awesome and I want someone to write it. You know what, I might go do that. After I research the vessels a lot more. That might be a bit hard. We don't know several of the Vessels.
Unlicensed Hemalurgist he/him Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 On 7/13/2018 at 0:51 AM, Weltall said: I'm imagining a story. The eleven living Vessels arrive on Yolen to attend a party thrown by Frost, with Hoid acting as the butler. Sazed arrives late because he has trouble finding his way there. Just after dinner when everyone has retired to the sitting room, the spheres all go dun and the house is plunged into darkness. A scream. The lights are restored and Rayse lies dead in the center of the room, Nightblood run through his body. Everyone looks at one another and wonders: 'Who murdered this chull?'. Everyone is a suspect... Murder on the Silverlight Express?... 3
Totally_Not_A_Worldhopper she/her Posted July 27, 2018 Posted July 27, 2018 On 21/07/2018 at 10:45 PM, StrikerEZ said: That might be a bit hard. We don't know several of the Vessels. Good Point...
Ulthwithian Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 On 7/13/2018 at 0:51 AM, Weltall said: I'm imagining a story. The eleven living Vessels arrive on Yolen to attend a party thrown by Frost, with Hoid acting as the butler. Sazed arrives late because he has trouble finding his way there. Just after dinner when everyone has retired to the sitting room, the spheres all go dun and the house is plunged into darkness. A scream. The lights are restored and Rayse lies dead in the center of the room, Nightblood run through his body. Everyone looks at one another and wonders: 'Who murdered this chull?'. Everyone is a suspect... Wouldn't the reactions be more or less exactly the reactions to the similar situation at the end of Words of Radiance / beginning of Oathbringer?
Ashspren Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) Sorry, I didn’t read through everything, but I saw the “Hoid and Rayse used to be friends” and “how Rayse got a Shard” part of the discussion and had something to add. Here’s what we know: ~ Hoid lost someone or something important to him. I think this is most likely a person, specifically, a loved one. (Source: Inferred from “The Traveler”) ~ Hoid and Rayse used to be friends, so there was something major that happened that caused the two to hate each other. (Source: WoB) ~ Rayse was possibly not supposed to be at the Shattering. (Source: Inferred from WoB) ~ Rayse was always evil and hateful. (Source: “The Traveler,” WoBs, and passages from the books) What I believe: Hoid was offered a Shard (which I think was Ingenuity, but we don’t have confirmation), but declined for some reason. His loved one was also offered a Shard. Rayse, however, was not. The 16 people (or 15 humans, 1 Sho Del) chosen to be Vessels gathered together to initiate the Shattering. However, the jealous Rayse stormed in and killed one of the chosen Vessels. That person was Hoid’s loved one. From that point forward, Hoid and Rayse hated each other. Now, Hoid only wants one thing more than revenge, and that is getting his loved one back. And it’s no question as to why Rayse received Odium. Further questions: ~ Did the Vessels choose which Shard they wanted to take? If not, why did the kindhearted Ati receive Ruin? ~ It is hinted in The Traveler that Hoid was once against his goals, most likely meaning that he did not want people to be brought back to life. Was this attitude pre-Shattering? If not, what made him change his mind? Tagging @Ishar because we worked out this theory together, and he might have something to add to it. Edited August 9, 2018 by Ashspren 3
Leyrann Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Ashspren said: ~ Rayse was possibly not supposed to be at the Shattering. (Source: Inferred from WoB) Remember Hoid (or Frost?): "Rayse is what we made him be. And that is, unfortunately, what he wished to become." Clearly, giving him a Shard was intended. 1 hour ago, Ashspren said: Hoid was offered a Shard (which I think was Ingenuity, but we don’t have confirmation), but declined for some reason. His loved one was also offered a Shard. Rayse, however, was not. So this (which I read after replying to that first part) doesn't hold up either. 1 hour ago, Ashspren said: ~ Did the Vessels choose which Shard they wanted to take? If not, why did the kindhearted Ati receive Ruin? Yes, as Hoid refused the Shard offered to him, and they knew what Rayse would become when given Odium. And Ati possibly got Ruin in the hopes of being able to contain him. Take into account that Brandon has said that he was one of the better Ruins there could have been. Presumably because Ati tried to reign the Shard in. 1
Ashspren Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 12 minutes ago, Leyrann said: Remember Hoid (or Frost?): "Rayse is what we made him be. And that is, unfortunately, what he wished to become." Clearly, giving him a Shard was intended. I think that they probably decided: "You know what? No one else wants Odium. Give it to Rayse." 12 minutes ago, Leyrann said: Yes, as Hoid refused the Shard offered to him, and they knew what Rayse would become when given Odium. And Ati possibly got Ruin in the hopes of being able to contain him. Take into account that Brandon has said that he was one of the better Ruins there could have been. Presumably because Ati tried to reign the Shard in. This is what I believe, too. Another followup question: Did Hoid refuse the Shard for its intent? Or did he refuse it because he didn't want to be a Vessel?
Calderis he/him Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ashspren said: "This is what I believe, too. Another followup question: Did Hoid refuse the Shard for its intent? Or did he refuse it because he didn't want to be a Vessel? I think the latter, but the intent definitely played a part. Quote theofficetroll (paraphrased) If Hoid were tempted by a Shard, which one would it be? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Endowment. source
Ashspren Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 Endowment, interesting. I always thought it would be Ingenuity, if anything.
Leyrann Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Ashspren said: I think that they probably decided: "You know what? No one else wants Odium. Give it to Rayse." 2 hours ago, Leyrann said: "You know what? Let's make a god out of this random guy that at least some people here really don't like." Somehow I doubt that.
Ashspren Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Leyrann said: "You know what? Let's make a god out of this random guy that at least some people here really don't like." Somehow I doubt that. Well, when you put it that way... I can see the logic in that, and now I think that part of the theory doesn’t fit. I still think that Rayse killed Hoid’s loved one, though. It’s a very plausible explanation for the sudden hatred and vengeance.
Leyrann Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 Just now, Ashspren said: I still think that Rayse killed Hoid’s loved one, though. It’s a very plausible explanation for the sudden hatred and vengeance. I can certainly see that one. Don't think we can accurately guess things like that with the current information though. (not that it's gonna stop anyone here)
Calderis he/him Posted August 9, 2018 Posted August 9, 2018 With the differing motives Khriss proposes of the Vessels, I think "some of us don't like that guy" isn't really a valid argument... But I also don't think anyone at the event was random...
Fanghur Rahl he/him Posted August 14, 2018 Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) On 2018-06-20 at 9:58 PM, Invocation said: Rayse and Hoid snuck in to watch the Shattering maybe? Rayse just was really passionate or something and went too close and screwed up the procedure, while Hoid was actually sensible and hung back? Or perhaps Hoid and Rayse were both trying to become Shards and for some reason one of the others became unable to do something, and the group tried to go through with it anyway, despite the pattern of 16 thing (if that existed at that point and wasn't just a by-product of the Shattering) and the remaining 1/16th latched onto Rayse as a conduit. Well you know, since Hoid is clearly at least superficially based on the Doctor (I think the fact that the glyph for ‘doctor’ is clearly a TARDIS makes that quite clear), it’s not hard to draw an equivalent parallel between Rayse and the Master; the Doctor and the Master used to be friends too. The only question is, was there some equivalent of Rassilon there as well who manipulated Rayse into becoming the deranged psychopath that he now is? Okay, maybe I’ve pushed this parallel a little to far. Still, it wouldn’t really surprise me in the slightest. Edited August 14, 2018 by Fanghur Rahl
Quantus he/him Posted August 14, 2018 Posted August 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said: Well you know, since Hoid is clearly at least superficially based on the Doctor (I think the fact that the glyph for ‘doctor’ is clearly a TARDIS makes that quite clear), it’s not hard to draw an equivalent parallel between Rayse and the Master; the Doctor and the Master used to be friends too. The only question is, was there some equivalent of Rassilon there as well who manipulated Rayse into becoming the deranged psychopath that he now is? Okay, maybe I’ve pushed this parallel a little to far. Still, it wouldn’t really surprise me in the slightest. haha, nice. Lacking any real information, top suspect would be Frost, no? 1
Fanghur Rahl he/him Posted August 14, 2018 Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Quantus said: haha, nice. Lacking any real information, top suspect would be Frost, no? Either him or Bavadin.
Unlicensed Hemalurgist he/him Posted August 14, 2018 Posted August 14, 2018 According to one of the letters Hoid has a vendetta against Bavadin, too, so that might actually make more sense than you think. 1
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