Minor Lopen Question

[Delightful]

So there's this minor detail about Lopen that's been driving me mad, and I can't find the answer anywhere, including the scene he was introduced and The coppermind. I turn to you fellow 17th Sharders in desperation.

Which arm is he missing????

(Serious question!)

[AerionBFII he/him]

I always pictured it as the left.

[GroundPetrel]

Does it matter?  He's so awesome that he'll have

grown it back by book 4!

 

 

(Lopen is the clear Ensemble Darkhorse, and I think that he's awesome).  

[Delightful]

he will grow his arm back I guess, but that unfortunately doesn't help when rereading

- Because I'm not sure which arm it is, my head keeps switching my image of him around as I read, which is kind of disturbing.

Thanks guys. I guess we just dont have an answer? :/

[Bort he/him]

I've always imagined it as his left.

[Rlain]

This is all I was able to find on the kindle app.

 

"Kaladin turned. A short, spindly man was waving to him. The man had only one arm. Who would assign him to be a bridgeman?"

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 487). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

 

Checking the rest of the pages around it, I couldn't find anything about which arm it was.

[Seloun]

I think it's his right arm that's missing, but it's actually pretty tough to figure out. The evidence is pretty ephemeral but I think does demonstrate the conclusion.

 

Minor WoR Spoilers (preview Chapters):

 

In WoR Chapter 2:

 

Teft grumbled as the other men finally got themselves sorted out, though Lopen— one armed, with his empty sleeve turned inside out and pushed in so it didn’t hang down— prodded at the patch on his shoulder. “What’s this?”

This implies that Lopen's existing arm is the arm that has the patch (if not, it would have been reversed and not visible). As far as I can tell there is no text referencing which arm the patch is on - but Kaladin's uniform has the shoulder patch too. The wording of the chapter implies that each uniform only has one patch (and not patches on both arms).

 

If we look at the cover of WoR, we see the patch on Kaladin's arm - his left arm.

 

Now it's possible Kaladin's patch is on the opposite side of the others, or there's actually two patches, or they decided to put their Bridge 4 patch on the other side - but this is the closest thing I can come up with that provides a conclusion to the question.

 

[WeiryWriter he/him]

I think it's his right arm that's missing, but it's actually pretty tough to figure out. The evidence is pretty ephemeral but I think does demonstrate the conclusion.

 

Minor WoR Spoilers (preview Chapters):

 

In WoR Chapter 2:

This implies that Lopen's existing arm is the arm that has the patch (if not, it would have been reversed and not visible). As far as I can tell there is no text referencing which arm the patch is on - but Kaladin's uniform has the shoulder patch too. The wording of the chapter implies that each uniform only has one patch (and not patches on both arms).

 

If we look at the cover of WoR, we see the patch on Kaladin's arm - his left arm.

 

Now it's possible Kaladin's patch is on the opposite side of the others, or there's actually two patches, or they decided to put their Bridge 4 patch on the other side - but this is the closest thing I can come up with that provides a conclusion to the question.

 

 

I think the members of Bridge Four have patches on both sides.  It is mentioned latter on that some members on the original Cobalt Guard want to wear the Bridge Four patch and Kaladin says they can on one side but for them to where the Cobalt Guard patch on the other.

[Shardlet he/him]

he will grow his arm back I guess, but that unfortunately doesn't help when rereading

- Because I'm not sure which arm it is, my head keeps switching my image of him around as I read, which is kind of disturbing.

Thanks guys. I guess we just dont have an answer? :/

 

Kaladin: You know, I'm a rather brilliant surgeon. Perhaps I can help you with that missing arm.

Lopen: What missing arm?

 

Later...

 

Kaladin: [pointing to lopen's missing arm] Didn't you, didn't you use to have that on the other side?

Lopen: What?

Kaladin: Your, uh, oh nevermind.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Shardlet

[Mysty she/her]

Kaladin: You know, I'm a rather brilliant surgeon. Perhaps I can help you with that missing arm.

Lopen: What missing arm?

 

Later...

 

Kaladin: [pointing to lopen's missing arm] Didn't you, didn't you use to have that on the other side?

Lopen: What?

Kaladin: Your, uh, oh nevermind.

That's a spoof from Young Frankenstine, right? Been a while since I've seen that. Upvote for the laugh you gave me!

I had never actually thought about which arm was missing before...weird. oh darn, I will just have to reread WoK and WoR to see if they slipped in a reference while talking about Lopen carring water skins or the rope.

But i'd bet that wherever Lopen's missing arm is, it is making obnoixous gestures at our confusion!

[Shardlet he/him]

That's a spoof from Young Frankenstine, right? 

 

Yup.

[Leuthie]

The only reason Lopen's arm grew back as soon as he breathed in Stormlight is because he never accepted that he lost his arm in the first place. I get the feeling BS planned this all along and purposefully never let the reader know which arm.

[Seloun]

I think the members of Bridge Four have patches on both sides.  It is mentioned latter on that some members on the original Cobalt Guard want to wear the Bridge Four patch and Kaladin says they can on one side but for them to where the Cobalt Guard patch on the other.

 

 

The quote actually says:

 

 

A few, all darkeyed , had started eating with Bridge Four. They’d asked for Bridge Four patches, and Kaladin had gotten them some—but ordered them to put their Cobalt Guard patches on the other shoulder, and continue to wear them as a mark of pride.

 

Why would they have to put the patches on the other shoulder if it already had one? I'll concede the wording is not unambiguous.

 

In 'Bridge Four', however, we only see one patch being removed by Kaladin and Skar:

 

 

“Yeah,” Skar agreed. To Rind’s horror, he got out his knife and cut the patch free. “We’re Bridge Four.”

 

“Bridge Four,” he said, cutting the Cobalt Guard insignia from the shoulder and tossing it to the counter with the others.

 

It's possible that the patches exist on both sides and they're only removing one for symbolism at the time, but as far as I can tell we only see one patch actually being removed.

 

[Delightful]

You know, I thought to begin with that it was just a minor detail I had missed somewhere. But I'm finding it more and more suspicious that such a small, yet very relevant detail isn't mentioned anywhere.

The only reason Lopen's arm grew back as soon as he breathed in Stormlight is because he never accepted that he lost his arm in the first place. I get the feeling BS planned this all along and purposefully never let the reader know which arm.

 

 Leuthie, I'm not sure why Lopen not accepting losing his arm makes a difference whether we know which arm it is, but you might just be onto something. There's something odd going on here.

 

Edit: Would someone who's going to a signing please save my sanity and ask Brandon which arm it was? Best case scenario, we get an answer, worst case scenario he RAFO's (unlikely, but still), and then we can make up crackpot theories about why it's relevant!    

Edited March 20, 2014 by Delightful

[Leuthie]

There wouldn't be a plot reason to not divulge which arm. However, if the way plot doesn't require you knowing, it would be very Sanderson to never say.

Lopen never admitting or accepting that he didn't have an arm defines his cognitive self, which fixes the physical once he has access to Stormlight

[Swimmingly he/him]

See, the Lopen will be rather sad when his arm grows back, as he will be using this arm, the one that was eaten by a great beast and regrown in an instant with a choir of angels and a flash of Stormlight - yes, this one - he will be making rude gestures at people, and they will be unfortunately enraged, as they could not see his rude hand gestures before, being preformed from the belly of a great beast as they were. They must become used to the Lopen, he supposes.

[GroundPetrel]

The only reason Lopen's arm grew back as soon as he breathed in Stormlight is because he never accepted that he lost his arm in the first place. I get the feeling BS planned this all along and purposefully never let the reader know which arm.

This.  Surgebinding is very deeply rooted in the Cognitive Realm and a bit in the Spiritual; personal perceptions have a lot to do with it.  If he's never fully internalized that his arm is gone, he'll grow it back.  

[Rezier he/him]

I agree with this Cognitive Realm idea 100% and as much as it's bothering me as well I fear we may never know exactly what arm it is.

I wonder though, with what happened with Lopen and the unnamed others in Bridge Four who started to glow with Stormlight if we're going to see some 'titles' bestowed on them as the series goes on. We could end up with Lopen Stormarm, Rock Stormchef, and on an on!

Edited March 22, 2014 by Rezier

[Swimmingly he/him]

So, I hear you're called Rock Stormchef..?

This thing, it is because the airsick lowlanders, they say that my stew, it feels like a storm the next day. Ha! If there is more complaining, I will add chill dung, and then they will feel the storm, no? To much air here!

[GroundPetrel]

I think that The Lopen is badass enough on his own.  He doesn't need a title.  

 

What order do you guys think he is?  Edgedancer?  Windrunner?  Stoneward?  

[The Tsunami he/him]

At the recent DC book signing I asked Brandon himself. He thought for sure he made a reference in the book, but confirmed it is his left arm that is missing. He got a good laugh out of the question.

[Swimmingly he/him]

He also mentioned that there may be a short story about Lopen becoming the (nominal?) king of Alethkar for a bit. Perhaps a coup d'etat?

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

There's a bit in the last chapter before the epilogue about how when Elhokar returned he came back with a bunch of Herdazians, one of which had just named himself King. That's probably what it is. And since this is happening literally immediately after he takes in Stormlight the first time... well, just do the math.

[Delightful]

At the recent DC book signing I asked Brandon himself. He thought for sure he made a reference in the book, but confirmed it is his left arm that is missing. He got a good laugh out of the question.

Thank you so so much, I can now finally read in peace!

 

I would totally give you another upvote for that, but sadly I can only give one per post, and you have no other posts yet.  Welcome aboard! You're awesome!

Edited March 24, 2014 by Delightful

[Anonymous]

As to the question of what order he belongs to, I would suggest a Windrunner. I forget the exact quote, and I loned my copy of the book in the hopes I could get someone else hooked, but I recall some of the epigraphs about the various orders mentioning relative numbers. I think Windrunners were mentioned as being one of, if not the most common.

 

This is just wild speculation, but could it be that the proximity to Kaladin as a Radiant, following him as he pursued, to some extent, his ideals, led to them joining his Order. As one of the more combat intensive orders it would be necessary for there to be more of them, so this could be how the Windrunner ranks of old were constantly flooded despite the difficult to uphold ideals. Maybe most of Bridge 4 will become Windrunners and act as the first line of defense?

 

Something related to this: What does the Stormfather's accepting of a Nahel Bond (if an unconventional one) mean for the honourspren. As I recall, it's been established that a large part of the reason Syl was the only honourspren to return was because the Stormfather forbade it, not wanting the spren, whom he considers his children, to be killed by the bond.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Anonymous