[OB] Will Dalinar Reveal His Past? If so, will it be brushed over?

[Katy]

So....I’m really worried that Dalinars past next book will be super brushed over. Sanderson has so far brushed over Kaladin killing Shallan’s brother, Adolin murdering Sadeas, and Szeth wanting to be Dalinars body guard. I feel like normal people would not react well, if they found out their dad killed their mom (even if by accident), but I worry this will be brushed over. Which just isn’t realistic, especially since the boys still get emotional about their moms death (at least Adolin does) thoughts? Do y’all think it’ll be covered? Or will it be forgive and forget? Or it’ll be happening but off screen? (Like Sadeas murder) 

[Gasper]

Everyone in the army, most of the world leaders, and probably most of Dalinar's family know about his past. It was only in his mind that he could not remember. They may not know all the details, but they definitely that the Blackthorn was more than a little blood thirsty. We can see this when the various delegations are very hesitant to let Dalinar and the Alethi into their cities. Letting the most war-like country on Roshar land hundreds of troops who can now fly and manifest WMD's would cause any leader to freak. Having that army led by the most fearsome warrior since the Heralds, who is known for victories that devastate his opponents, is like asking Wayne to guard a large stash of liquor. There will be trouble. The fact that the Thaylens let him into the city is amazing.

By the way, great thinking and welcome to the shard.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Gasper
forgot to add something.

[RShara]

Also, Dalinar is writing a book about the whole thing, so it's definitely going to come to light.

[earthexile]

I've said this before, but I think the overriding theme of the Stormlight Archive is atonement with the past. Every story thread and every major character's arc is based on that theme, in one way or another, and the novels are all based on a flashback-centered layout. "Odium" means hatred towards someone for something they have done, which is the justification/explanation/excuse for so much multi-generational hatred in the world. Historical, cultural, racial, and religious baggage all come from the painful lives of people who are dead.

All of which is to say, there is zero chance that Brandon will forget to have our heroes' pasts and actions come back to bite them in their asses.

[Oberyn]

I do think your worry is very valid, the weakest point of SA so far is that the characters just brush over things. Some people do care less about strong situations even in real life, but I feel Brandon should at least give us an proper explanation to WHY people like Shallan and Dalinar are ignoring things. Shallan is a bit adressed in the sense that she is ignoring things to stay functional, but if she is to evolve she has to face it. But Dalinar utterly ignoring that Szeth killed his brother and murdered a lot of people is something that I can't get over.

[Szmit]

22 minutes ago, Oberyn said:

I do think your worry is very valid, the weakest point of SA so far is that the characters just brush over things. Some people do care less about strong situations even in real life, but I feel Brandon should at least give us an proper explanation to WHY people like Shallan and Dalinar are ignoring things. Shallan is a bit adressed in the sense that she is ignoring things to stay functional, but if she is to evolve she has to face it. But Dalinar utterly ignoring that Szeth killed his brother and murdered a lot of people is something that I can't get over.

I don't think Dalinar is ignoring this at all. In my opinion we just didn't see it because Szeth joined them at the very end of the book and there were a LOT of much more important things to worry about both for us and for Dalinar. I'm pretty sure that this will be properly adressed during the next book.

I also belive death of Shallan's brother and Sadeas' death are going to be dealt with properly. We have already seen consequences of him beeing dead, but at the verry END of the book it has been revealed to other characters that Adollin did it.

The same with Shallan. During Oathbringer it was revealed to her that Kalladin killed her brother and she decided to ignore this, and during the finale she decided she can't ignore things anymore.

Together with Venli and Eshonai bering the main focus of the book, this seems like a clear theme of the next book.

[IllNsickly]

With the possible exception of the detalis about what happened at The Rift, nothing in Dalinar’s past is a secret. 

He is The Blackthorn, the whole world knows how brutal and bloodthirsty he has been. We have already seen some of the fallout from that, but I am sure there will be more.

[Katy]

16 hours ago, Gasper said:

Everyone in the army, most of the world leaders, and probably most of Dalinar's family know about his past. It was only in his mind that he could not remember. They may not know all the details, but they definitely that the Blackthorn was more than a little blood thirsty. We can see this when the various delegations are very hesitant to let Dalinar and the Alethi into their cities. Letting the most war-like country on Roshar land hundreds of troops who can now fly and manifest WMD's would cause any leader to freak. Having that army led by the most fearsome warrior since the Heralds, who is known for victories that devastate his opponents, is like asking Wayne to guard a large stash of liquor. There will be trouble. The fact that the Thaylens let him into the city is amazing.

By the way, great thinking and welcome to the shard.

 

Thank you!! 

So I totally get what you’re saying. Yes everyone knows that Dalinar is pretty blood-thirsty. But I believe that the story they put out was that the king of that city (Rathalas is it?) assassinated Queen Evi, and in revenge Sadeas burned down the city, while Dalinar was either away, or like in a drunken stupor. Or too shocked to do something. At least that’s what Adolin made it sound like. So on a political scale, that will definitely effect the treaty because he lied about it for 5 years, and then went to the Nightwatcher to forget. I feel like that will undermine Dalinars trustworthiness a lot on a political scale. But I’m sure that’ll be covered. What I’m more worried about, is the emotional scale. To know that Dalinar due to being a psychopath, and inadvertently killed their mother, should be a huge shock to the boys. Between Sadeas death and debating whether to give up his Throne, Adolin had hardly any screen time in OB. And Renarin. Well his two chapters were a lot compared to other books. Now it’s hinted that we’ll get more on Renarin later. But still, I do wonder how they’ll react, or if they’ll be even given the chance to react. 

[Katy]

5 hours ago, Szmit said:

I don't think Dalinar is ignoring this at all. In my opinion we just didn't see it because Szeth joined them at the very end of the book and there were a LOT of much more important things to worry about both for us and for Dalinar. I'm pretty sure that this will be properly adressed during the next book.

I also belive death of Shallan's brother and Sadeas' death are going to be dealt with properly. We have already seen consequences of him beeing dead, but at the verry END of the book it has been revealed to other characters that Adollin did it.

The same with Shallan. During Oathbringer it was revealed to her that Kalladin killed her brother and she decided to ignore this, and during the finale she decided she can't ignore things anymore.

Together with Venli and Eshonai bering the main focus of the book, this seems like a clear theme of the next book.

I hope you’re right! And no that’s true there is some logic as why other characters were “brushed over.” But with Adolin he did, and really with no excuse (except maybe to cut down on length). We see when Adolin is with Shallan, he does act weirdly whenever Sadeas is mentioned. And he even says himself, that he felt awful lying to everyone. Another arc that is skipped over, is his debate to give up the throne. We see him look thoughtful over what Azure said, but that’s it. And all of a sudden, boom. Jasnah’s queen. I guess with two major arcs skipped in this book, I’m worried with another major arc coming it will also be skipped over. But maybe not, since as another person said, a whole book is gonna be written about his past. With the political situation, and Renarin getting more time (well it was implied), maybe it’ll be covered better! I sure hope you’re right and it’s a theme for next book! 

[Calderis]

@Katy we'll definitely get more Renarin. Both he and Jasnah are main characters in the back half.

I wouldn't expect more of them on a bigger scale than we got in OB until book 6 though, when Dalinar Shallan and Kaladin step into more background roles, and the back 5 characters take prominence.

Edit: the front 5 book focus/main characters are, Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Eshonai/Venli, and Szeth. 

The back 5 (in no confirmed order) are Lift, Renarin, Jasnah, Taln and Ash. 

Edited June 3, 2018 by Calderis

[Gasper]

10 hours ago, Oberyn said:

I do think your worry is very valid, the weakest point of SA so far is that the characters just brush over things. Some people do care less about strong situations even in real life, but I feel Brandon should at least give us an proper explanation to WHY people like Shallan and Dalinar are ignoring things. Shallan is a bit adressed in the sense that she is ignoring things to stay functional, but if she is to evolve she has to face it. But Dalinar utterly ignoring that Szeth killed his brother and murdered a lot of people is something that I can't get over.

Also remember that Dalinar is a pragmatist and the Bondsmith, yes Sezth killed his brother, but he needs as many Radiants as he can get his hands on. The fact that Sezth has one of the few weapons that might be able to put a permanent end to the Fuzed problem is an added bonus. Also, Dalinar has sworn an oath to unite men, that oath is more important than his personal demons. 

[Katy]

4 hours ago, Calderis said:

@Katy we'll definitely get more Renarin. Both he and Jasnah are main characters in the back half.

I wouldn't expect more of them on a bigger scale than we got in OB until book 6 though, when Dalinar Shallan and Kaladin step into more background roles, and the back 5 characters take prominence.

Edit: the front 5 book focus/main characters are, Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Eshonai/Venli, and Szeth. 

The back 5 (in no confirmed order) are Lift, Renarin, Jasnah, Taln and Ash. 

Yah....probably...it’s just that’s so huge ya know? I guess I just wish side characters got more attention. But if no attention was paid from shifting from Adolin, to Jasnah being queen, which is also huge, I doubt this will get much attention. Unless one of the sons go dark, and it’s part of the plot. 

Also that’s good info to know! Man I can’t wait for Renarins book. I always want more with him, but he’s such a minor character! 

[thejopen27]

On Szeth joining them and the revelation that Adolin killed Sadeas: these both happened so late and in the middle of a battle so I think we will deal with this in book four. At first the battle was too desperate to deal with them, then Brandon was wrapping up the book and couldn’t start new plots. He already rushed a few too many resolutions (Shallan’s wedding, Shallan’s brothers showing up, Jasnah becoming queen, etc.) and the book was super long already. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by thejopen27

[Calderis]

25 minutes ago, Katy said:

Yah....probably...it’s just that’s so huge ya know? I guess I just wish side characters got more attention. But if no attention was paid from shifting from Adolin, to Jasnah being queen, which is also huge, I doubt this will get much attention. Unless one of the sons go dark, and it’s part of the plot. 

As others have said, Dalinar is writing the in world Oathbringer. He doesn't plan on his past being a secret, because the preface we were given in the epigraphs makes it clear he's writing it to be read, not just for himself. 

His sons will learn of his past, and as his oath makes clear, he will now be forced to take responsibility for his actions. His relationship with them will undoubtedly change... But I don't know if that means what you think it does. 

Adolin and Renarin will learn the truth.  They'll probably both deal with it differently, but considering the man Dalinar has become, I don't think this will be the world shattering development it at first appears. It would be one thing if they learned that he had hidden this from them, knew it all along, and never told them. The fact that it tore him apart to the point that he went to the Nightwatcher, forgot the event completely, and upon remembering both relapsed, and then picked himself up and told the world of his shame will go a long ways towards him making amends. 

He is not the monster that he was then, and that should be obvious. It will be painful, and it will be a trial... But I don't think that demands some dark spiral or disownment. 

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

As others have said, Dalinar is writing the in world Oathbringer. He doesn't plan on his past being a secret, because the preface we were given in the epigraphs makes it clear he's writing it to be read, not just for himself. 

His sons will learn of his past, and as his oath makes clear, he will now be forced to take responsibility for his actions. His relationship with them will undoubtedly change... But I don't know if that means what you think it does. 

Adolin and Renarin will learn the truth.  They'll probably both deal with it differently, but considering the man Dalinar has become, I don't think this will be the world shattering development it at first appears. It would be one thing if they learned that he had hidden this from them, knew it all along, and never told them. The fact that it tore him apart to the point that he went to the Nightwatcher, forgot the event completely, and upon remembering both relapsed, and then picked himself up and told the world of his shame will go a long ways towards him making amends. 

He is not the monster that he was then, and that should be obvious. It will be painful, and it will be a trial... But I don't think that demands some dark spiral or disownment. 

True. Him right away coming clean, will definitely help. And yes, it is obvious he isn’t the same man, I totally agree. But it may be less obvious, on a political scale, when you barely trusted him to begin with, and on a personal scale when that’s your mom. I’m really interested to see where this will go. I can see it not taking too much time cuz look Dalinar has changed, it’s been years. I can see it taking like half the book, and the characters being conflicted over it, yet at the same time not being the focus. And I can see it becoming more focal point, and book 4 is about Dalinar gaining ground and trust. Since for at least 5 years he lied about it. This’ll be interesting! 

[Katy]

1 hour ago, thejopen27 said:

On Szeth joining them and the revaluation that Adolin killed Sadeas: these both happened so late and in the middle of a battle so I think we will deal with this in book four. At first the battle was too desperate to deal with them, then Brandon was wrapping up the book and couldn’t start new plots. He already rushed a few too many resolutions (Shallan’s wedding, Shallan’s brothers showing up, Jasnah becoming queen, etc.) and the book was super long already. 

True! These could be covered more next book! I have a feeling Kaladin killing the brother will come back into play (since surely the brothers will want to know what happened and it’ll force Shallan, confront her feelings). And Jasnah being queen will probably be discussed more too. We’ll probs get a lot more Jasnah, and maybe some insight from Adolin and the after effects. Since I’m sure it’ll be weird, witnessing the after effects. Like it’s one thing to say it, but to see it. Yah know? Maybe I’m under estimating Brandon over here. Which I often do, and I’m often surprised haha. 

[Katy]

Just now, Katy said:

True! These could be covered more next book! I have a feeling Kaladin killing the brother will come back into play (since surely the brothers will want to know what happened and it’ll force Shallan, confront her feelings). And Jasnah being queen will probably be discussed more too. We’ll probs get a lot more Jasnah, and maybe some insight from Adolin and the after effects. Since I’m sure it’ll be weird, witnessing the after effects. Like it’s one thing to say it, but to see it. Yah know? Maybe I’m under estimating Brandon over here. Which I often do, and I’m often surprised haha. 

Also I forgot. About Szeth. TBH. Since Adolin killed a man, tho because he had too. And Dalinar like murdered a city, they’ll probably be a lot more open to Szeth, than they would’ve been in book 1. So that may not be as big of a deal, as I originally thought. 

[Solant]

I just finished my re-read tonight, and my first time through I had blitzed through the entire story in a few days. This time I took it in at a slower pace, and it helped me to pick up on some on some of the more subtle details I had missed the first time through, especially in regards to Szeth.

I was originally confused and generally unconvinced that they would just let him show up and march right in as the newest Radiant as if he had no history as an enemy, but there was a heavy stress in this book on the theme that regardless of a persons history, they can change. The most important step a man can take is his next, etc. This is especially important in regards to Dalinar's POV near the end of the book. You can apply that to Dalinar himself, Venli, and especially Szeth. 

You have to remember that his showing up was critical to retrieving the ruby and allowing Dalinar to defeat the Thrill. It was also explained that off screen he explained that he had joined the Skybreakers and that most, if not all of the rest of them, had defected to the enemy.  IIRC, with the exception of Lift, the fact that Skybreakers are still around at all is probably fresh news to everyone. I imagine that he also had explained the nature of his Oaths as well, and the nature of his previous status as a Truthless and the oathstone causing him to basically be a slave,  and the Stormfather probably would be able to confirm at least some of this information. 

The part of this I can't get over is that Mr. T admitted to being the one who had access to Szeth, and had ordered the assassination of most of Roshars rulers, including Dalinar himself, and was allowed to remain in Urithiru unchecked.  I know that he lied and said it was under direction from a herald or some such, but it still seems like shaky reasoning to me. 

[Calderis]

@Solant I think that this one can be explained by politics.

Taravangian was one of Dalinars first, and at the time only, supporters. With the coalition having been reduced to the Alethi, the Thaylen, and Taravangian in control of Jah Keved and Kharbranth, turning on Taravangian would be a move that would confirm to the rest of the world that Dalinar was a conqueror.

It would place the Alethi against the might of Jah Keved, and turn the rest of the world against them, as there's no way publicly that T would acknowledge his use of Szeth. That was said to Dalinar in a situation that it is his word against Taravangian. 

Dalinar is in a situation that there is no good course of action. 

[Szmit]

Also Mr T only admitted to the things Szeth already knew, plus gave explanation. If he didn't said that Dalinar would be A LOT more caucious about him and probably would consider him the traitor. But now that he "came clean" Dalinar "trusts" him, and doesnt belive he is the traitor.

[Nymeros]

Yes he will reveal it of course(he's writing a book on it).

Hopefully it's not brushed over. If Adolin and Renarin just roll with Dalinar having killed their mom I'll be incredibly disappointed 

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Nymeros said:

Yes he will reveal it of course(he's writing a book on it).

Hopefully it's not brushed over. If Adolin and Renarin just roll with Dalinar having killed their mom I'll be incredibly disappointed 

Yah same. I mean no human would just roll with that. I really hope Brandon gives time to that story line, instead of it being in the background.