There is always a bigger fish

[Gasper]

Has any one noticed the art in the Arcanum Unbound in the inside cover. The star map? I think that is a hint that there is a bigger bad guy out there than odium. It has a massive knight pointing a blade at a dragon. Also, most of the stars in the dragon are red, which is a sign of interference in the investure of those stars. I think that the shards split up because this bigger force is trying to take them over. That is why they made a pact to each go to a different world and not share worlds. That would also explain why Odium is so set on killing shards that do that sort of thing, he does not want the bigger fish to get them. Perhaps that is why Rayse took up Odium in the first place, so that he could basically police the other shards. It would be a very Brandon twist to have Odium actually be a sort of good guy who is just trying to prevent the end of the universe.

[TheHeadHancho]

That’s... pretty out there.

The star map has been discussed before and Peter has stated that the constellations don’t have any big significance. 

And, quite honestly, you jumped a few conclusions too far for me. There is no evidence at this point for the bigger force your talking about and Odium’s motives have been made pretty clear: kill all other Shards and become the most powerful.

[Fatikis]

I agree that Odium is not the real threat, but Odium is not a good guy. Odium is not policing other shards and does not care. Rayse was never a good guy and the influence of Odium sure isn't going to make him act in a way best for others.

The real threat is either Autonomy or some sort of great filter attracted to investiture.

[Gasper]

The constellations themselves might not matter, that is true. But the color of the stars matters. Also, every piece of art we have seen so far has had some sort of significance. But why does Odium want to be the most powerful? He is the Shard of hate, not strength or Dominion 

[Calderis]

Because anyone stronger than him can potentially push him around. 

[Gasper]

Right, but most of the other shards have invested in a planet, which means they are less powerful. The only one that could even come close to the level of power that Odium has at his disposal is Harmony, and he is basically a child compared to Odium in terms of experience. It's the whole Vin vs. Elend situation. 

[Fatikis]

14 minutes ago, Gasper said:

Right, but most of the other shards have invested in a planet, which means they are less powerful. The only one that could even come close to the level of power that Odium has at his disposal is Harmony, and he is basically a child compared to Odium in terms of experience. It's the whole Vin vs. Elend situation. 

In terms of a single being holding power he may be one of the strongest, but I doubt he can wield more power than Autonomy and the avatars who seems to be the most active in discovering untapped investiture.

It is unlikely he managed to not invest in the planets where he has shattered shards. Which would mean he invested in a number of planets. He most likely invested in Ashyn also.

[RShara]

3 hours ago, Gasper said:

The constellations themselves might not matter, that is true. But the color of the stars matters. Also, every piece of art we have seen so far has had some sort of significance. But why does Odium want to be the most powerful? He is the Shard of hate, not strength or Dominion 

The wanting to be most powerful is Rayse rather than Odium. Odium hates. Rayse hates and wants to be unchallenged.

[TheHeadHancho]

4 hours ago, Gasper said:

 

The constellations themselves might not matter, that is true. But the color of the stars matters.

 

That could easily be an aesthetic choice, but I agree that there’s something going on; however, I don’t believe that what you say is true. Stars can also just be red btw due to a lower average temperature in their core. Also there are such things as red dwarves and supermassive stars.

[Calderis]

9 hours ago, Fatikis said:

It is unlikely he managed to not invest in the planets where he has shattered shards. Which would mean he invested in a number of planets. He most likely invested in Ashyn also.

Investing in a world is a byproduct of spending to much time there, and a Shard can willfully withdraw that power. 

Prior to being trapped on Braize, Odium had intentionally stayed on the move and did not invest. For example on Sel... 

Quote

sufficientlyadvanced

It says that it's dangerous to travel to Shadesmar on Sel. Why?

Brandon Sanderson

It has to do with the Dor and the lack of an entity controlling much of the power Odium left in his wake on Sel.

Phantine

Woah, that's interesting. I had no idea Odium left little bits of his power on Sel... I guess it kinda makes sense for evil monks to be powered by pure hate, though.

Brandon Sanderson

Odium did not leave his power behind, one should note. He left several other powers which are now, to a large extent, mindless...

Windrunner

If you wouldn't mind answering, does Roshar have a similar problem, with Honor being Splintered?

Brandon Sanderson

No, Roshar does not have the same problem. There are some differences going on. (One reason being that the spren are far more extensive on Roshar, and provide something of a "release valve." The seons and the skaze on Sel are not numerous enough to fulfill a similar function. Though, of course, that's only one part of the puzzle. Raw power is dangerous.

It's one reason everyone should be thankful Kelsier was around on Scadrial.

source

 

[Llarimar]

8 hours ago, TheHeadHancho said:

That could easily be an aesthetic choice, but I agree that there’s something going on;

I remember when I first received Arcanum Unbounded, that I was very intrigued by the artwork on the inside cover - in particular the dragon, because I couldn't easily connect it to one of the cosmere books I'd read.  I didn't think much about it beyond that, but I definitely agree that there might be something more going on with the artwork than we know.  

13 hours ago, Gasper said:

Also, every piece of art we have seen so far has had some sort of significance. 

Very few things in the cosmere, I think, which seem suspicious or interesting, have no significance.  I think it's unwise to ignore anything or take anything for granted.

[Wandering Investor]

The red stars are interesting, I believe they are called the rift or the tear. As far as I know, Brandon has RAFOed every question on them, some speculate Yolen is hidden within the rift constellation, and also that the red might indicate a spreading corruption, possibly fain life. 

There have been theories in the past on an entity that exist outside of Adonalisium, possibly the force that opposed Adonalisium. The first time I read about the god beyond, some theories proposed that it was another non-shardic entity moving into adon's space. But Brandon has stated that everything is made of investiture, and all investiture is related to the shards. So if you take that directly, nothing exist outside the shards.

[Weltall]

Brandon has clarified the whole 'force that opposed Adonalsium' thing; it was an open-ended question that left him far too much wiggle room and we read more into his response than we should have.

Quote

Eric

In Secret History we learn the 16 Shards that Shattered Adonalsium. Was that done [on behalf of the anti-Adonalsium force]?

Brandon Sanderson

You’re focusing too much on this idea of an anti-Adonalsium. It—the original question I believe that was asked me was “is there a force that is opposed to Adonalsium” and it left me a lot of wiggle room. In other words, the people who killed Adonalsium, you could say were a force, any person who opposed Adonalsium... What they were trying to get was a “devil” but to do that you must assume Adonalsium was a more Christian-style God, and I haven’t confirmed any of that.

source

Now, this doesn't preclude the idea that the God Beyond is an entity beyond Adonalsium (Brandon's likened it to Gnostic ideas) but that wouldn't be something opposed to Adonalsium and so wouldn't be a good candidate for the Cosmere's 'bigger fish'. Especially as Brandon has implied the God Beyond is one of those things he intends to leave open for in and out of universe debate.

Intresting aside: We have a Word of Isaac that not all the stars seen in the picture are within the Cosmere.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Weltall

[CalaCrisp88]

On 5/30/2018 at 2:01 PM, Weltall said:

Brandon has clarified the whole 'force that opposed Adonalsium' thing; it was an open-ended question that left him far too much wiggle room and we read more into his response than we should have.

 

He didn't actually say that the sixteen were the opposing force, only that they could have been. Meaning there could still be a separate "devil-like" entity that opposes Adonalsium out there. Now, I don't believe that to be true, but it would be bad to just assume it isn't.