[OB] Kaladin vs Vin (2018)

[Housedunn]

With the release of Oathbringer, I wanted to see if i could revive this discussion. I know that there is already a thread of this, but I wanted to know if thoughts have shifted, including the stupid stuff pulled off by Kaladin and the Knights Radiant in OB

Round 1: Vin (starting her training with Kel) vs. soilder kaladin

 Round 2: Vin (end of the final empire) vs. Kaladin (end of WoK)

Round 3: Vin (end of Book 2) vs Kaladin (before killing Syl and swearing the 3rd oath)

Round 4: Vin (end of Book 3 and before becoming Preservation) vs Kaladin (end of OB)
 

 Vin has 3 vials of the 8 basic metals plus duralumin and Kaladin has a bag of stormlight and all Sylweapons in round 4

Vin has NO access to Preservation's power (besides Allomancy) and any feats using them are null (ex. killing the Lord Ruler)

bonus round: rou nd 4 with unlimited metal and stormlight

[mosaab]

Vin wins all rounds almost most of the time.

Kaladin by end of Oathbringer and Vin by end of the final empire IS the the most fair comparison, I think readers generally overestimate how much time passed since the series began compared the mistborn.

 

[Xtafa]

I love Kaladin, but he's going to get demolished

[Naurock]

Kaladin loses until he gets a Syl weapon. Then he MIGHT win. As long as he doesn't get killed in the process of getting close enough and switching from shield to spear or sword.

[EighttrackListener]

I do not see Kaladin winning any of these rounds before he gets his plate(if the plate protects from emotional Allomancy). The way Kal shuts down after Elhokar dies gives me very strong doubts about his ability to resist duralumin emotional pushes and pulls.

[goody153]

Vin wins except round 4. Kaladin's surge of gravitation is wayyy too flexible and he's incredibly good at it if you've noticed. 

Vin doesn't even win in a close quarter combat and Kaladin just heals anything.

Unless Vin is allowed Atium then she just loses

[Vissy]

Vin wins by default because she's the Cosmere Jesus. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Vissy

[Nictorius]

I would say that Kaladin can do quite as much damage with coins/shrapnel as she could just by adding multiple lashings to them in Vins direction, or indeed just add multiple lashings to Vin herself. Doubt she would have an anchor strong enough to keep her down. Horseshoes ain't helping here, sorry. 

[Nictorius]

1 hour ago, goody153 said:

Unless Vin is allowed Atium then she just loses

Would Vin's Atium show Syl's form before she arrived where ever Kaladin intended her to go?

[goody153]

13 hours ago, Nictorius said:

Would Vin's Atium show Syl's form before she arrived where ever Kaladin intended her to go?

Alright we need Marsh or Demoux in Roshar just to test this theory. I'm eager to see it

[Calderis he/him]

14 hours ago, Nictorius said:

Would Vin's Atium show Syl's form before she arrived where ever Kaladin intended her to go?

Atium reads the Spiritual, so if Syl were visible she should have an atium shadow. 

That whole "only visible to who she wants to be" thing messes with that though.

[Vissy]

I think atium would help against Syl even if she was invisible, considering it'd at least show that something was going to hit your body, no?

[ZenBossanova]

Vin winning makes sense, but if Kaladin has stormlight, would Vin either know how to kill, or be able? 
Once Kaladin is 'killed' once or twice, I think he can take her out. He can maneuver in the sky far better than she can. 

Vin having atium is more parallel to have Kaladin having an honorblade.

[Calderis he/him]

26 minutes ago, Vissy said:

I think atium would help against Syl even if she was invisible, considering it'd at least show that something was going to hit your body, no?

If you couldn't see her, no. Atium shows shadows of everything except for the person burning it. 

To see a reaction to you getting hit by something you couldn't see, you'd need to burn electrum to see your own ever shifting shadow. 

[Szmit]

19 hours ago, Nictorius said:

Would Vin's Atium show Syl's form before she arrived where ever Kaladin intended her to go?

In the future she is visible, so Vin should be able to see her, like if something teleported or got soulcasted. 

And round 4 heavly depends on wheather Kalladin is straight out of highstorm, or just has few spheres. In the first scenario Vins only hope is emotional allomancy or atium, and sralelly uses either.

[+robardin he/him]

I dunno, if Vin ever managed Kelsier's trick of using both iron and steel to create a swarming metal shrapnel cloud, only the Fourth Ideal granting Shardplate would prevent her from being able to literally shred Kaladin from a distance in a one-on-one fight. Stormlight would heal him almost immediately, but over time she'd literally grind him down, as both iron and steel burn slowly. A Sylshield wouldn't be effective protection since she could push/pull the metal bits at  him from all directions. And to Lash Vin, Kal would have to get close enough to touch her.

A close quarters fight would be bad for her, as she has no way to block a Shardblade. If she weren't cognizant of how dangerous the Blade was, though, and assumed pewter and a koloss sword or something was good enough as her standard defense as Kaladin drew in, she could be in big trouble if there weren't large enough metal anchors around for her to Pull or Push on to counter the Lashings until they ran out. If her eyes weren't burned out by then.

[Ashspren]

On 5/28/2018 at 7:11 PM, goody153 said:

Alright we need Marsh or Demoux in Roshar just to test this theory. I'm eager to see it

We know that Demoux is on Roshar. He’s Thinker in Ishikk’s interlude.

But wait... Marsh is on Roshar?! Who is he?

[Calderis he/him]

3 hours ago, Ashspren said:

We know that Demoux is on Roshar. He’s Thinker in Ishikk’s interlude.

But wait... Marsh is on Roshar?! Who is he?

Pretty sure if Marsh were on Roshar his appearance would give him away. 

[StanLemon]

On 5/29/2018 at 7:03 PM, robardin said:

I dunno, if Vin ever managed Kelsier's trick of using both iron and steel to create a swarming metal shrapnel cloud

I doubt she ever got as good as Kelsier but she was able to kill a whole room full of soldiers with one of their belt buckles in under a minute

[RShara she/her]

6 hours ago, Ashspren said:

We know that Demoux is on Roshar. He’s Thinker in Ishikk’s interlude.

But wait... Marsh is on Roshar?! Who is he?

He's not saying Marsh is on Roshar, but that he needs to see Marsh on Roshar, to test out the atium theory.

[Ashspren]

6 hours ago, RShara said:

He's not saying Marsh is on Roshar, but that he needs to see Marsh on Roshar, to test out the atium theory.

Oh, got it. That makes a lot more sense. Thanks!

And in that case, @goody153, I wholeheartedly agree. I don’t know if Marsh is Cosmere-aware yet, though.

[Vissy]

Pretty sure if Kelsier is cosmere-aware then Marsh is as well, considering Marsh likely knows that Kelsier is still "alive" through Sazed. Who knows, maybe Kelsier even told him all about it himself.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Vissy

[goody153]

Pretty sure Marsh is cosmere aware, him being Harmony single most powerful agent(unless Kelsier is secretly one ). If Kandra's and some of Scadrials are worldhoppers the most powerful almost-fullborn and the most connected to the residing shard should be aware.

 

Quote

Questioner

Is Marsh a worldhopper? Can he worldhop? Does he have the ability?

Brandon Sanderson

Ah, yes, yes.

Questioner

Will we ever see him do anything on the other worlds?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a RAFO. There's your card. But yes, no his investiture would not prevent him from going offworld.

source

 So there you have it. You can't be a worldhopper without being.

Vin on her peak(around HoA) like quite possibly the single most talented mistborn around. She was beating Ruin Inquisitors before her actual ascension which is an extremely difficult feat. Even Kelsier says that she thinks Vin is such a natural it's scary. Obviously Vin can't beat Kelsier during Final Empire but even around WoA she has so much practice fighting allomancer(not just allomancer but allomancers like groups)  and she was even going against what she thought was an allomancer better than Kelsier(Zane ) that i think she was simply too good around HoA.

Vin's pvp capability in mistborn combat is ridiculous

[i’m in the details]

I am behind the argument that Vin coukd in theory just shred kaladin with a metal storm from a distance. This along with her emotional allomancy should be enough to garner at least 50/50 in all situations. My question is how well would kaladin fair against vin who has access to the W&W era metals. With the abilities of a Leecher, lashings would be useless, and bendalloy bubbles could be used to avoid shadblade attacks. I even believe I saw a WoB that a shardblad wouldn’t be able to enter a time bubble. 

[Kramerfarve]

But wait with the metal swarm idea couldn’t Kal lash anything that touched him in the opposite direction? This would put Vin in a seriously tough spot because Kal has more weight and could take advantage of her being off-balance