Jump to content
  • 0

[OB] Is it possible there's another Shard on Roshar?


Invocation

Question

After reading Oathbringer, I was curious as to the third sibling-spren that would result in a Bondsmith. I think I remember something about a Shard named Autonomy that helped Odium for a while, and when I read another something that pointed out that it seemed that the third Bondsmith's spren was in some way linked to the tower's functionality (via the whole network of gems and stuff that was guarded by the Midnight Mother), I realized I hadn't seen anything stating there was only three Shards on Roshar (if I just missed it, tell me, because that would make all of this irrelevant). If Autonomy had helped Odium before, was it possible he was with Odium on Roshar, intending to help there too? If so, let's say he helped counsel the Heralds on their path to abandon the Oathpact because he knew that would damage Honor, helping Odium's cause. Let's say, even, that he then decided he'd vex Odium a little, because he does what he wants, and helps the parsh/parshmen/parshwomen/singers/listeners separate themselves from Odium's influence. He could even have taught the other spren to undergo the Nahel bond when the Heralds abandoning their pact didn't harm Honor as much as he hoped. Let's say Odium eventually got tired of him, and offed him (as much as you can do that to a Shard), but part of him survived in something like the Nightwatcher and the Stormfather, and followed their example of bonding someone or maybe just inhabiting the tower. It has been remarked that it would be difficult for the tower to run on its own with a full population, and what better way to separate yourself from everything else than with the help of a being whose sole purpose is to autonomous?

Tl;Dr: Is a remnant (or even majority) of Autonomy the third sibling-spren in the Bondsmith/spren combo?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 answers to this question

Recommended Posts

  • 0

FYI, the WoB saying Autonomy has helped Odium is extremely tenuous. The Questioner specified in any way, which could mean anything from "Hey Rayse, there're two Shards on Sel" to directly lending a hand. It was also paraphrased. So don't put too much weight on it.

Quote

Moridin997 (paraphrased)

Did Bavadin in any way help Odium splinter Dominion and Devotion?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Uhh...

Moridin997 (paraphrased)

(sensing an incoming RAFO): In any way...

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Uhh... Yes... Yes, you could say that...

source

As for the Shards on Roshar

Quote

Questioner

When it comes to the epic-level spren on Roshar, like the Nightwatcher and the Stormfather-- Is the number of epic-level spren equal to the number of Bondsmiths that you can have on Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

Hmm, is the number of epic-level spren related to the number of Bondsmiths you have? Well, I've said there's a maximum of three. And there are three Shards involved in Roshar. I'm not gonna tell you if that's a coincidence or not. Sorry.

source

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

There are quite a few quotes that do say there are only three Shards relevant on Roshar: https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=shards%26roshar&date_from=2003-12-05&date_to=2018-05-18&speaker=&ordering=rank

I feel like the Sibling is just a mix of Honor and Cultivation Investiture. They can create Honorspren and other sapient spren, after all, so they could surely do it on a bigger scale.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

To add to what @Chaos said about spren as a mixture of multiple Shards' Investiture, we have this WoB.

Quote

Questioner

Hi. I have two questions about the Cosmere. The first one is if a Radiant can have a bond with two spren, and the other one is if Truthwatcher spren are related directly with Cultivation or the Nightwatcher?

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, so RAFO on if a Knight Radiant can have two spren. But the second question was, "Are spren of Cultivation?" One more time?

Questioner

If the spren of the Truthwatchers are related directly with Cultivation or the Nightwatcher? Or both?

Brandon Sanderson

So, most of the sapient spren that form the Orders of Knights Radiant are related to a mixture of Honor and Cultivation. Some lean one direction much more than the other, and the spren of the Truthwatchers leans toward Cultivation.

Footnote: Brandon has previously said that it's theoretically possible to bond two spren. NOTE: This link needs to be updated once the correct entry has been added to Arcanum.
source

So it's entirely possilbe that the Sibling is a 'superspren' of Honor and Cultivation, while the Stormfather and Nightwatcher are associated entirely with one of the two.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
Quote

Only three shards have existed on Roshar

We don't have proof that Odium has every existed on Roshar-Proper, so perhaps there was/is a third lurking around. It is possible that Odium has been on Braize the whole time, and Brandon is pulling a long-con on us. 

(I don't believe this, but it is possible)

Edited by teknopathetic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
26 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

We don't have proof that Odium has ever existed on Roshar-Proper,
(I don't believe this, but it is possible)

Don't worry, it isn't.

Quote

Questioner

The line about "three of sixteen [ruled] and now the Broken One reigns" - did Odium follow three other Shards to Roshar or is he the third Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

Odium is the third Shard on Roshar.

Edited by The One Who Connects
fixed link
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
1 hour ago, teknopathetic said:

We don't have proof that Odium has every existed on Roshar-Proper, so perhaps there was/is a third lurking around. It is possible that Odium has been on Braize the whole time, and Brandon is pulling a long-con on us. 

(I don't believe this, but it is possible)

I'd say something about splitting hairs but, well, this is Brandon we're talking about and he's gleefully admitted to doing this sort of thing when asked sufficiently open-ended questions. Fortunately, we had the clarifying WoB that The One Who Connects just posted that makes it clear he wasn't trying to pull one over on us. This time. xD

Even in the absence of that, since we've got the spren of Odium on Roshar it would have been a fairly safe assumption that he was the third Shard by default, even if he was never 'present' there in the same way that Honor and Cultivation are considered to be on Roshar. And given what we see in Oathbringer, it's even easier to say that he's definitely 'on' Roshar even if his Physical/Cognitive 'home' is Braize.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...