Properties of Voidlight

[Calderis he/him]

A discussion in discord with @Yata last night got me thinking. Yata was asking if the differences we see in what the Fused do could be a difference in the fuel rather than a difference in the surges that they use. I think he's right.

We've been told repeatedly that Stormlight leaks. That it fight to get out and be used. You see it leak out of gems and Radiants and attempt to float away. 

In contrast, Voidlight seems to pull inward. To "suck in the light." and the Fused appear to be able to hold it indefinitely. 

So what if that's a literal opposite of stormlight? What if rather than wanting to be used, Voidlight wants to remain where it is. It would explain the difference in the Fused acceleration rate, because they would have to force more Voidlight into the surge to increase the number of lashing, and it would resist. 

Their apparent lack of healing could be explained in this manner too. As investiture, it should be capable of healing in the same manner as Stormlight, but instead of doing it automatically it must be directed. 

I don't have anything but speculation to go on for this, but the descriptions and differences in the abilities we've seen of the Radiants and the Fused make this difference make sense in my head. 

Anyone have any evidence for or against this idea? 

Edited June 23, 2018 by Calderis

[Steeldancer he/him]

I think it might be a combination of both. For example, I think the healing thing might very well be because... Voidlight is a poor approximation of stormlight? It's trying to copy something, but its not quite the same. But, I think the fused having only one surge ability is not because of the voidlight, but a result of whatever process actually gave them their ability to use surges (because as far as I am aware, we have only ever seen fused use one surge, rather than two). I also think the Voidlight is able to be held indefinitely because of their gemhearts, although we will see what Venli is able to do now that she is a Radiant. She'll be the perfect test subject to compare all our theories to. But yeah, it makes sense that the nature of Voidlight would have at least something to do with some of the differences.  

[Nathrangking he/him]

@Calderis this new WoB confirms at least in part @Yata's theory.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

The fused with the lashings can be a lot faster than Kaladin?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Kaladin can go faster, but they are faster over a large span. What's going on with the fused is... the way their investiture works it doesn't leak and they are able to use it for much longer periods of time. But they don't have access to the number of times that Kaladin can lash himself directions and things like this, and the speed with which he can pick up speed. So in the short Kaldin is favored, in the long they are favored.

source

[Calderis he/him]

Well isn't that awesome timing.

Edit: man, if I had waited another two hours I could have incorporated that into the OP. Oh well. 

Edited March 12, 2018 by Calderis

[Yata he/him]

Sorry Cal, my mind works faster than WoB 

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

Rad, I think this WoB is a pretty compelling confirmation of your theory Calderis. P=W/t, W=F *d, and F=m*a. 

So P=(m*a*d)/t. If Kaladin's mass is approximately equal to the mass of one of the fused, and given the fact that Brandon says that Kaladin will lose in  a race given a large enough distance, the one variable that is different between the burning of stormlight and voidlight is the acceleration. So if we assume (and rightly so I think) that the Power derived from the burning of stormlight and voidlight is equivalent, the only explanation that fits is that the burning of stormlight produces more energy but is also shorter in duration.

Edited March 12, 2018 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine

[Yata he/him]

4 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

For example, I think the healing thing might very well be because... Voidlight is a poor approximation of stormlight? It's trying to copy something, but its not quite the same.

I don't think the Voidlight is a poor approximation of Stormlight. They simply have different proprierties. Burst less and last long is not a issue is just a different rate.

Probably it will happen the same if someone develop a way to fuel Surgebinding with Breath. The Breaths are really sticky and therefore they will be really slow to be used as fuel.

[Calderis he/him]

1 minute ago, Yata said:

I don't think the Voidlight is a poor approximation of Stormlight. They simply have different proprierties. Burst less and last long is not a issue is just a different rate.

Probably it will happen the same if someone develop a way to fuel Surgebinding with Breath. The Breaths are really sticky and therefore they will be really slow to be used as fuel.

Agreed. I don't think Voidlight is an approximation of stormlight at all. It's not made to mimic Stormlight, it's just a different form of investiture.

As such it behaves differently. Slower to be expanded, and somewhat restricted in its rate of use because of that, but also longer lasting because of it. It doesn't run out from lack of use, and when used there's nothing wasted. 

With Stormlight the leakage occurs even while it's being spent, but with Voidlight (or breath since it appears to function similarly) there's nothing wasted. 

[Yata he/him]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

With Stormlight the leakage occurs even while it's being spent, but with Voidlight (or breath since it appears to function similarly) there's nothing wasted. 

Well Stormlight was designed to be really volatile and leakly as it processes a critical function in Roshar's envirorment.
I am not really sure if there is "no leaking" at all in Voidlight's case or if it's just really slow. It really depend by the status of Gavilar's orbs. Are they perfect gemstones ? (I doubt it but I can't actually prove it)

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

I had once seen a suggestion the differing rates of acceleration might be due to the Fused using a differen planet's standard gravitation for Lashings, but this theory that the difference is due specifically to the different properties of Voidlight makes sense. Nevertheless, I still wonder if KR and Fused use the same planet as base for their abilities. Random question, does anyone have handy the mass of Ashyn, Roshar and Braize?

What is still bugging me is where the Fused get the voidlight from, and whether they store it somewhere or just keep it on them indefinetely. At the momment voidlight seems massively OP. A source of power nearly as a good as stormlight which never runs out ? The closest I can think of is Breath, and that source of magic had some very big limitations and was quite hard to get to a large enough mass to become useful. 

[Ryder]

2 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Random question, does anyone have handy the mass of Ashyn, Roshar and Braize?

Well Roshar's gravity is 0.7G, but I don't think we know anything close to that specific about Ashyn or Braize.  It's probably not worth reading into too much, but the star chart for the Rosharan system shows the three planets as approximately the same size.  In the charts for the other systems there's some variation in planet size apparent, so I would think that if there were a dramatic difference Isaac would have drawn it that way.  

[RShara she/her]

1 hour ago, Ryder said:

Well Roshar's gravity is 0.7G, but I don't think we know anything close to that specific about Ashyn or Braize.  It's probably not worth reading into too much, but the star chart for the Rosharan system shows the three planets as approximately the same size.  In the charts for the other systems there's some variation in planet size apparent, so I would think that if there were a dramatic difference Isaac would have drawn it that way.  

Some smart people figured it all out

 

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

Quote

A figure emerged from the battle. A tall, lean man—so, so familiar. Gloom seemed to cling to Moash, who wore a brown uniform like the parshmen. For a heartbeat the battle pivoted on him. Wall Guard behind him, broken Palace Guard before.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 819). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

Was Moash injected with Voidlight here or was it a metaphorical expression?

Random question about the sketch Shallan made of Elhokar, was it Elhokar dying trying to fulfill the Lightweaving/Transformation of Shallan, or did Shallan use Spiritual Lightweaving to paint Elhokar in the moment of his death?

[Calderis he/him]

@Quantus you asked me to tag you when I discussed my reasoning for why a different fuel source would make surgebinding behave differently.

Well here's why. Because I fully believe that the Fused are surgebinding. 

[Quantus he/him]

6 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@Quantus you asked me to tag you when I discussed my reasoning for why a different fuel source would make surgebinding behave differently.

Well here's why. Because I fully believe that the Fused are surgebinding. 

I like it!  That would make a lot of sense, and I like that it would be a way to illuminate some of the cosmere-wide interactions of Investiture, rather than just being a wholly new/different system.

 

Still begs the Source Question...Odium's Perpendicularity has to be stuck somewhere in Greater Roshar if not on Braize specifically, yes?  Being that it is by definition a bulk chunk of him.  

[ScavellTane]

Perhaps the Unmade was a means to circumvent the formation of his Perpendicularity? Though I wouldn't know how?