[OB] Where are the remaining Unmade?

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

While we got a good idea of where the majority of the Unmade are/were and what tasks they were up to, there are still some that are complete question marks. Considering the war is full out by now it makes no sense that Odium wouldn't have whipped them out of their slumber and sent them somewhere to further his cause. So, to go Unmade by Unmade.

Ashertman: Was in Kholinar weakening the city lighteyes and any semblance of order.

Moelach: Reason for the Death Rattles. Is believed to be on the Horneater peaks.

Nergaul: Was fully active on the Thaylen battle, currently stuck inside a gem where Dalinar put him.

Re-Shephir: Causing mayhem in Urithiru, unclear where it went next.

Sja-anat: Weakening Kholinar. 

Yelig-nar: First seen on Kholinar inside Aseduan, then on Thaylen battle possesing Amaram. 

So, any theories or ideas where Ba-Ado-Mishram, Chemoarish and Dai-Gonarthis were? The first is possibly one of the smartest and most self-aware of the Unmade, can recharge voidlight and often acted as a general. The other two are almost entirely unknown on powers and abilities. My theory is that at least one more Unmade is on the Horneater peaks, since controlling the perpendicularity seems to be high up the list of priorities for Odium. Maybe Chemoarish, since the Black Fisher seems to be a big gun, that would likely be moved for massive destruction, conquering or battles. 

The other idea I keep coming up with is how the Iri and Rirans sided with Odium so easily. Most of the Unmade are east, and so seems to be much of Odium's focus. This may seem logical since the west is more peaceful, has (apparently) less KR and half of it has already sided with Odium. However, it still does not seem smart to leave the surrendered lands (or whatever they are) without supervision. Leaving an Unmade in charge of organizing Iriali, the Reshi islands and Rira seems plausible, and the best candidate for this is possibly Ba-Ado-Mishram. Intelligent, capable, often compared to a highprincess and a general...seems perfect to put in charge of running the west while the rest of Odium's forces conquer the east. 

I am however drawing up mostly blank on any semi-strong ideas where the last Unmade could be. Only idea is possibly heading towards Tukar and Ishar. However we know so little of what Ishar is doing (other than he is completely insane) that I am wary of even contemplating which side of the conflict he is batting for. Then again if insane Ishar is mobilizing a nation someway against Odium sending Dai-Gonarthis, who is theorized to be responsible for the scouring of Aimia seems a good idea. But somehow I doubt Ishar is doing something useful in any way, shape or form for humanity's side.

Any ideas or theories of where the 3 unaccounted for Unmade are would be welcome . 

Edited February 10, 2018 by WhiteLeeopard

[RShara she/her]

The current prevailing theory is that BAM is stuck in a gemstone and hidden somewhere.  She might be in the gemstone Gavilar gave to Szeth, who then hid it somewhere in Jah Keved.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

9 hours ago, RShara said:

The current prevailing theory is that BAM is stuck in a gemstone and hidden somewhere.  She might be in the gemstone Gavilar gave to Szeth, who then hid it somewhere in Jah Keved.

Are we then assuming the other gemstone which Gavilar gave Eshonai had Yelig-nar? It puts a whole other spin on Gavilar handing out Unmade like candy...

[RShara she/her]

I think that gemstone probably had a voidspren in it, or contained voidlight.  I don't think Gavilar would have managed to have *two* Unmade, and Yelig-nar was messing with Aesudan in Kholinar before the Singers attacked.

[Wandering Investor]

Considering the way Gavilar handed one gemstone to a listener and demanded the other be kept from the listeners, the gemstones are likely different.

Because the gemstone isn't described as being large, I originally doubted that it could contain an unmade. But after some consideration, Brandon stating that we would know what Gavilar's black sphere was after book 3, and Navani's mention that she'd seen something similar to the Thrill's prison with Gavilar, I think its a safe assumption that the sphere held an unmade.

BAM would be my suspect, with Chemoarish and Dai-Gonarthis as runner ups, and the others as last (requires the unmade isn't confirmed to be free before hand, and that the sphere broke after being hidden, releasing the unmade).

Edited February 12, 2018 by Wandering Investor
Spelling

[The One Who Connects he/him]

10 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

BAM would be my suspect, with Chemoarish and Dai-Gonarthis as runner ups, and the other as last (requires the unmade isn't confirmed to be free before hand, and that the sphere broke afer being hidden, releasing the unmade).

The other?

[Blazenella he/him]

Another interesting thing is the "Nicknames" we know them for Ashertmarn (Heart of the Revel), Yelig-Nar (Blightwind), Re-Shephir (Midnight Mother), Sja-Anat (Taker of Secrets), Chemoarish (The Dustmother) and Dai-Gonarthis (The Black Fisher).

The ones we don't know are Nergaoul, Moelach, and Ba-Ado-Mishram

We do however have a nickname given by Jezrien, which is "The Faceless"

Take this along with the Cusicesh is an unmade theory (Which makes sense due to the changing face thing) and we are left confused. Building upon your Unmade in charge of Iri this makes sense as Cusicesh is in the middle of Iri. The main problem with this is which Unmade would it be? BAM is in a gem, Nergaoul is in a gem, Moelach is moving around, and all the others have their nicknames. However it has been stated that one of the Unmade may have been through passage of time and mixing of culture and lore may have been split into 2 separate entities, even though there was only ever one unmade. I propose that Cusicesh is Dai-Gonarthis and is know as "The Black Fisher" AND "The Faceless" and through time has been separated into 2 entities in the mind of the people.

[Wandering Investor]

@The One Who Connects Sorry, meant the "others". 

As for Cusicesh, he doesn't seem to be doing anything notably evil. This could have changed since Odium became active, but I'm inclined to believe its just another spren. While they are low in numbers, we do see examples of large spren, such as those in the storms, the oathgate spren,  and the Shin reference great spren of the mountains. I suspect there are a number of larger spren in existence just hanging out.

[Blazenella he/him]

50 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

@The One Who Connects Sorry, meant the "others". 

As for Cusicesh, he doesn't seem to be doing anything notably evil. This could have changed since Odium became active, but I'm inclined to believe its just another spren. While they are low in numbers, we do see examples of large spren, such as those in the storms, the oathgate spren,  and the Shin reference great spren of the mountains. I suspect there are a number of larger spren in existence just hanging out.

The question is spren of what? 

[stonedshaman]

I like the idea from one of the shardcast members (can't remember which)  that BAM is locked in a perfect gem under Kholinar and that the gems gavilat is tossing out like candy at a parade is voidlight.  The one gavilar gives szeth would most likely be another unmade 

[.S.A.M.K.M]

I have this theory the unmade could be used as a weapon against the forces of odium. Specifically against the fused. The fused are deeply damaged. Being attacked by the unmade would destroy what control/stability they have left, ensuring they could only become thunderclasts, or they might transform into a completely new form.

 

The three greatly mindless unmade are said to deeply affect the mind. The black fisher seems associated with pain/grief/depression/sadness. They are said to be deeply mentally scared, so if pushed to the extremes, they will break.

BAM would provide void light and the connections/bindings between the unmade and the fused.

while one of the remaining unmade is largely unknown, the other three I could see allowing for the creation of a new form for the fused. One of the unmade creates new creatures, another make a crystal body while the last corrupts spren. This combination could transform the fused into a new being. Potentially a new life for damnation.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

I think the mindless Unmade are Re-shephir, Ashertmarn and Nergaul. While the second two could be argued to affect the mind thats not exactly what re-shephir does. While the mindless Unmade can be dangerous, I suspect they often need close direction and supervision by Odium or a smarter Unmade. Re-shephir was likely ordered to cover the mega fabrial of Urithiru, but it wasn't too effective when a couple newish KR came down to spook it off. Heart of Revel was likely so dangerous because Sja-anat was directing its efforts. Nergaul was also closely supervised by Odium/fused on Thaylen. And if Odium hadn't been forced to flee I bet he would have stopped Nergaul before Dalinar trapped it.

As a random question...who expects our heroes will still have Nergaul trapped by the end of book 4, considering their history so far at keeping dangerous objects safe?

Edited February 12, 2018 by WhiteLeeopard
Am I the only one to always confuse Moelach with Nergaul?

[.S.A.M.K.M]

To me, the mindless seem broken/unfinished in some way. This is part of the reason I think they would work against the fused. The fused are deeply damaged. If the two are deeply exposed and bound to each other, they could fill in the holes and damage within themselves permanently.

[digitalbusker he/him]

On 2/12/2018 at 10:09 AM, Wandering Investor said:

Considering the way Gavilar handed one gemstone to a listener and demanded the other be kept from the listeners, the gemstones are likely different.

To be fair, in between those two things they had him killed.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

6 minutes ago, digitalbusker said:

To be fair, in between those two things they had him killed.

I'm not 100% sure Gavilar meant the Parshendi when he said "Don't let them take it". He could have meant the GB, the other SoH, Sadeas, etc, etc.

[Leuthie]

I'm nearly 100% sure that those dark spheres Galivar was passing around weren't filled with Unmade.  Spheres and perfect gems are completely different things, and I believe that the "named" perfect gems (King's Drop, etc) are required for Super Spren holding.

However, if BAM were under Kholinar and Galivar found a way to interact with it, he could fill spheres with voidlight.

[RShara she/her]

3 hours ago, Leuthie said:

I'm nearly 100% sure that those dark spheres Galivar was passing around weren't filled with Unmade.  Spheres and perfect gems are completely different things, and I believe that the "named" perfect gems (King's Drop, etc) are required for Super Spren holding.

However, if BAM were under Kholinar and Galivar found a way to interact with it, he could fill spheres with voidlight.

Well they are not spheres.  They were spherical gemstones, not money-type spheres.

[Willow]

On 12-2-2018 at 9:27 PM, WhiteLeeopard said:

I think the mindless Unmade are Re-shephir, Ashertmarn and Nergaul.

I thought Moelach was the last of the three mindless Unmade. They are mentioned in order in Mythica, and the book notes how Moelach and Nergaoul are similar. This epigraph also states that Moelach is more of a force:

Quote

Lore suggested leaving a city if the spren there start acting strangely. Curiously, Sja-anat was often regarded as an individual, when others -- like Moelach or Ashertmarn -- were seen as forces.

 

Something else I'm curious about, is what Moelach was doing before the events of the book. While we know that Nergaoul and the Thrill remained active, Taravangian states in chapter 71 of tWoK (Recorded in Blood) that the Death Rattles didn't show up until Gavilar found the Parshendi in the Unclaimed Hills. And since Gavilar somehow managed to get his hands on several voidish spheres, at least one of which has some sort of spren captured inside, I wonder what happened that led to at least Moelach, if not other Unmade awakening again.

15 hours ago, Leuthie said:

I'm nearly 100% sure that those dark spheres Galivar was passing around weren't filled with Unmade.  Spheres and perfect gems are completely different things, and I believe that the "named" perfect gems (King's Drop, etc) are required for Super Spren holding.

I agree that it's weird, and I still think that it's unlikely they were actual Unmade, however, Brandon has been giving us several hints that seem to lead us to points in the story where they capture some sort of spren (flamespren to Unmade) in gemstones. So it's likely that at least one of the spheres held some sort of voidish-Odium-oriented spren.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

2 hours ago, Willow said:

I thought Moelach was the last of the three mindless Unmade. They are mentioned in order in Mythica, and the book notes how Moelach and Nergaoul are similar. This epigraph also states that Moelach is more of a force:

Maybe. We haven't met Moelach so I wasn't sure what state would he be in. But if Re-shephir is considered sentient maybe the ideas of sentient or mindless Unmade should be slightly revised...

[Willow]

45 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Maybe. We haven't met Moelach so I wasn't sure what state would he be in. But if Re-shephir is considered sentient maybe the ideas of sentient or mindless Unmade should be slightly revised...

I think (though I admit this is a theory without a lot of textual support) that there are three levels of Unmade sapience.

Rank 3: The first three, the mindless ones, Moelach, Nergaoul and Ashertmarn, who are more forces.

Rank 2: Re-Shephir,  and two others (Chemoarish (maybe?), and Yelig-nar (maybe?)), who are sentient, but not really sapient. They'd be roughly at the level we saw from Re-Shephir. She can obviously think and react to things based on some past experience (Lightweavers scare her), but she's not on the level of a human.

Rank 1: Ba-Ado-Mishram and Sja-Anat and one other (Dai-Gonarthis?), who are referred to as individuals. At least B-A-M is said to be keen of mind, and from what we've seen of Sja-Anat she seems like she has a clear personality and sense of individuality separate from her identity as an 'ally'/lieutenant of Odium.

Of course the problem here is that we've only seen five of these (some only very quickly), and we have a few lines of information from the epigraphs about two more, so this could turn out to be completely wrong once some of the others show up. Especially Unmade like Yelig-nar, who we've seen twice, but only through Aesudan and Amaram. We still haven't really seen his personality like we have Re-Shephir/Nergaoul/Sja-Anat (so I put him in the middle rank because the human still seems in control, even though they are twisted by his power, but who knows)

I think we can see a clear difference in sapience between rank 2 and 1, from what we've seen of Shallan's interations with Re-Shephir and Sja-anat. The difference between rank 3 and 2 might be harder to define (if Hessi is right about it existing). Nergaoul seems to have some form of memory, since he clearly remembers Dalinar, but maybe the difference is that he doesn't react based on past experience, while Re-shephir seems to have learned from her capture by a lightweaver, and changed her behaviour based on this experience, and now wishes to learn new things.

[Wandering Investor]

An additional point on Re-Sephir is her ability to create. Although her creations were not on point, her shadow spearmen were an attempt to learn from Bridge 4, followed by getting annoyed it wasn't working and creating other creatures to destroy them. So she's not fully sentient, but she does seem more aware and adaptable then what we saw from Nergoul.

[Rustbringer he/him]

I think its fair to wager that one of the unmade is trapped within aimia. 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I like the idea that the number of - in their names hint toward how sentient they are. The three mindless ones have no -, the next group have one, and the last group (consisting solely of BAM) has two. There are a couple of problems with this though, but I do think that the - are significant. 

Regarding the locations, one hanging out in Iri seems logical. I can also see one if them (Chemoarish perhaps) be inside the Everstone. 

If one of them is on Aimia, I think it is imprisoned and guarded.