[OB] Just for fun: Fullborn v Surgebinders

[Storms! he/him]

Edit: Lots of Mistborn spoilers, all eras!

 

So I have been daydreaming about this a bit, and thought my fellow nerds sharders might enjoy it too. If Harmony were to turn someone (who knows how to fight, obv) into a Fullborn, give them a fat bag of metals and another fat bag of Atium beads and send them to Roshar, would anyone be able to stop him?

I assume an army's worth of Radiants hacking away might do the trick eventually, but anything short of that? Fullborn has to be the most OP in Cosmere

Edited January 26, 2018 by Storms!

[Shqueeves he/him]

Fullborn v anything except Hoid/Nightblood/Shard will basically always end up with a fullborn win 

[Kered he/him]

A single Fullborn would beat every Surgbinder in SA, even if they all came at the Fullborn at once. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Kered

[Wandering Investor]

In a 1v1, assuming the Fullborn was prepared and had metals, nothing short of Shardic intervention is likely to take them down. Even having Nightblood won't help since you're very unlikely to actually hit the Fullborn. In a 1 vs all of the Radiants, it depends on whether the Fullborn has metal to last.

[CrazyRioter she/her]

Even without atium a Fullborn is pretty much going to take apart everyone in their path. If you give them atium you are just adding pain icing on top of the pain cake.

[Storms! he/him]

Let's open it up to any magic system in the Cosmere then:

You can send a worldhopper to Scardrial for an Electrum spike, then to First of the Sun for the bird that shows your death. That should help cancel out the Atium and some of the Feruchemical steelspeed.

What else would our champion need?

[ShardplateJoe III]

13 minutes ago, Storms! said:

What else would our champion need?

The biggest things in the fullborn's favor are its atium and its speed, none of the other abilities that we know of will counter a shardblade, even duralumin-enhanced pushes wouldn't work, because the radiant could just summon it in an instant. So, with the atium countered, we need to give them compounded speed too. Hemalurgy or a special set of bracers (even just an unkeyed steelmind) would suffice.

Edit: I didn't catch that you mentioned the fullborn's speed.

Edited January 26, 2018 by ShardplateJoe III

[Storms! he/him]

Quote

none of the other abilities that we know of will counter a shardblade

Let's not forget that the Fullborn can compound gold. We know that can heal decapitation and will instantly heal any strike that isn't immediately lethal, but could it heal a sharblade strike to the spine? We might need Nightblood after all

[Wandering Investor]

Fullborn can also store their Allomancy and then compound that. Aka, Fullborn have unlimited super-speed and super-strength, on top of everything else. They're just brokenly op, I can't think of anyone that could match them with the magic systems that we know of. 

[Vissy]

lol

[Storms! he/him]

Could someone like Jasnah Soulcast away the metalminds to stop the compounding?

[Wandering Investor]

Depends on how much stormlight she has vs how much investiture is in the metalminds. In the event the Fullborn has already compounded and stuffed the metalminds full of investiture, Jasnah would likely be unable to affect them.

[Calderis he/him]

Fullborn are gone for a reason. 

Steel counpounding and gold compounding alone are enough to make them untouchable and unkillable. Add in all their other powers and the only way a Fullborn dies is juts sheer stupidity. 

They win every fight hands down. 

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

If it's a wild west type duel, the fullborn would win easily. But I can imagine a scenario where the Fullborn dies quite easily.

If Jasnah has foreknowledge that a Fullborn (Lord Ruler type) is coming to Roshar, she could transport herself into the Shadesmar with a vast store of gems, a chull cart filled with food and functional span reeds. Then using her span reeds and her extensive spy network she could figure out where the Fullborn is residing, make her way to the same approximate location, but in Shadesmar. From there it would be easy to find the Fullborn because their heavily Invested soul would probably glow like a freaking beacon. From that point, she hires spies in the same area and learns the Fullborns sleep pattern, then when one of her spies gives her visual confirmation that the Fullborn is asleep, she pops into the Physical Realm and turns his body into pitch and sets it on fire. Just as an extra insurance that the Fullborn is good and dead, she also throws Ivory across his sleeping body in the form of a net made of razor sharp threads, with heavy balls of weight on the ends, so that if he somehow manages to heal the Soulcasting (unlikely) when he stands he will be cut into a bunch of peices of cubed ham, ouch.

Edited January 26, 2018 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine

[Shqueeves he/him]

1 minute ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

If it's a wild west type duel, the fullborn would win easily. But I can imagine a scenario where the Fullborn dies quite easily.

If Jasnah has foreknowledge that a Fullborn (Lord Ruler type) is coming to Roshar, she could transport herself into the Shadesmar with a vast store of gems, a chull cart filled with food and functional span reeds. Then using her span reeds and her extensive spy network she could figure out where the Fullborn is residing, make her way to the same approximate location, but in Shadesmar. From there it would be easy to find the Fullborn because their heavily Invested soul would probably glow like a freaking beacon. From that point, she hires spies in the same area and learns the Fullborns sleep pattern, then when one of her spies gives her visual confirmation that the Fullborn is asleep, she pops into the Physical Realm and turns his body into pitch and sets it on fire. Just as an extra insurance that the Fullborn is good and dead, she also throws Ivory across his sleeping body in the form of a net made of razor sharp threads, with heavy balls of weight on the ends, so that if somehow manages to heal the Soulcasting (unlikely) when he stands he will be cut into a bunch of peices of cubed ham, ouch.

One issue. Fullborn don't need to sleep

[Guest Procrastinationspren]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Fullborn are gone for a reason. 

Steel counpounding and gold compounding alone are enough to make them untouchable and unkillable. Add in all their other powers and the only way a Fullborn dies is juts sheer stupidity. 

They win every fight hands down. 

Are they really gone, though? Or is the Sovereign not a fullborn?

 

[Storms! he/him]

7 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

If it's a wild west type duel, the fullborn would win easily. But I can imagine a scenario where the Fullborn dies quite easily.

If Jasnah has foreknowledge that a Fullborn (Lord Ruler type) is coming to Roshar, she could transport herself into the Shadesmar with a vast store of gems, a chull cart filled with food and functional span reeds. Then using her span reeds and her extensive spy network she could figure out where the Fullborn is residing, make her way to the same approximate location, but in Shadesmar. From there it would be easy to find the Fullborn because their heavily Invested soul would probably glow like a freaking beacon. From that point, she hires spies in the same area and learns the Fullborns sleep pattern, then when one of her spies gives her visual confirmation that the Fullborn is asleep, she pops into the Physical Realm and turns his body into pitch and sets it on fire. Just as an extra insurance that the Fullborn is good and dead, she also throws Ivory across his sleeping body in the form of a net made of razor sharp threads, with heavy balls of weight on the ends, so that if he somehow manages to heal the Soulcasting (unlikely) when he stands he will be cut into a bunch of peices of cubed ham, ouch.

This is the type of half cracked scheme I was looking for! A couple problems though:

1. The Fullborn would be too heavily invested to turn to soulcast into pitch. You could soulcast the house into pitch though!

2. Gold compounding. A gold compounder can heal from the fire, and probably the net too

What if we executed your plan, then while the Fullborn was busy healing/untangling himself, whack! Nightblood to the face?

We might need a Dalinar Perpendicularity, just to be safe

[Wandering Investor]

Fullborn don't need to sleep, and I'd be surprised if they stopped compounding gold while sleeping. But possible.

 

3 minutes ago, Procrastinationspren said:

Are they really gone, though? Or is the Sovereign not a fullborn?

We're not sure. There are currently no known fullborn. Or full mistborn or Feruchemist. I'm under the impression that Harmony has changed the rules of allomancy and feruchemy to prevent any full power set from occurring, but others disagree and think it comes down to chance and genetic dilution.

[Storms! he/him]

Quote

We're not sure. There are currently no known fullborn. Or full mistborn or Feruchemist. I'm under the impression that Harmony has changed the rules of allomancy and feruchemy to prevent any full power set from occurring, but others disagree and think it comes down to chance and genetic dilution.

Marsh is the closest that we are 100% on (Spook and Kel probably still kicking around though), but he would only have the Era 1 powers so he wouldn't actually be "full"

[Guest Procrastinationspren]

6 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

Fullborn don't need to sleep, and I'd be surprised if they stopped compounding gold while sleeping. But possible.

 

We're not sure. There are currently no known fullborn. Or full mistborn or Feruchemist. I'm under the impression that Harmony has changed the rules of allomancy and feruchemy to prevent any full power set from occurring, but others disagree and think it comes down to chance and genetic dilution.

I knew of the genetic argument and agree that we don't know for sure about the feruchemical powers of the Sovereign, but what we know is that Marsh is a mistborn with at least some feruchemical powers.

But now that I'm thinking, in order to make an Inquisitor, they spiked one allomancer of each kind, so I guess he can't burn the metals they didn't know at the time, so he wouldn't be a mistborn. Also we don't know exactly how the Sovereign gained his powers, and if he kept his mistborn powers intact. So I guess you are right.

damnation it! Now I can't wait for more mistborn.

[Calderis he/him]

Mistborn spoilers 

Spoiler

Marsh has 22 spikes. There are 32 powers. We don't know which powers he doesn't have. 

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Calderis

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

48 minutes ago, Shqueeves said:

One issue. Fullborn don't need to sleep

But all that compounding of metals probably leads to the need to take a metal dump, so using her network of spies, Jasnah, privy to when nature calls for the Fullborn, pops out of Shadesmar behind the Fullborn and before he is even aware that she is there, she uses her incredible soulcasting mastery to turn his brain and all of his blood into pitch and sets them on fire. Then while he is twitching on the ground she soulcasts his twitching, drooling remains into smoke and opens the window. Goodbye fullborn, goodbye.

40 minutes ago, Storms! said:

This is the type of half cracked scheme I was looking for! A couple problems though:

1. The Fullborn would be too heavily invested to turn to soulcast into pitch. You could soulcast the house into pitch though!

2. Gold compounding. A gold compounder can heal from the fire, and probably the net too

What if we executed your plan, then while the Fullborn was busy healing/untangling himself, whack! Nightblood to the face?

We might need a Dalinar Perpendicularity, just to be safe

Hey @Storms!, item 1 is addressed up above. Targeting specific organs instead of his whole body while being an unbelievable master of soulcasting would probably be enough to get past the Investure resisting Investiture.

Item 2 is addressed, because I do believe that the use of all Fullborn powers would require some cognitive directive to do so on the part of the Fullborn.

The only problem with using Nightblood is that in answering a question of mine at the Portland signing, Brandon seemed to find it an unlikely scenario that someone could get Nightblood into the cognitive realm.

[Vissy]

Nightblood is the only realistic way of killing a Fullborn I can think of. And even then you need to hit him with it xD

On the other hand, you could really stall the Fullborn. Make him real angry. One way is to turn whatever he's residing in into lava when he's not paying attention.

[Wandering Investor]

@Procrastinationspren I was referring to natural mistborn/feruchemist. Hemalurgy is still an option.

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine The soulcaster would be fighting the goldmind for the change. And with the Fullborn's link to Preservation and unlimited investiture, unless the Fullborn burns all their gold that won't work either.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

3 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine The soulcaster would be fighting the goldmind for the change. And with the Fullborn's link to Preservation and unlimited investiture, unless the Fullborn burns all their gold that won't work either.

Ok, so Jasnah's spy network delivers to her a detailed drawing of the Fullborn, including the location of his various metal minds. So, while he is on the privy, she elsecalls her hand out from behind the Fullborn and Yoink, there goes the Fullborn's goldmind. Then later, while the Fullborn is eating some spicy curry, Jasnah's else calling hand comes out and turns his brain into soulcast grain. Then while he is drooling on the floor leaking grain from his nose, she quickly removes the remainder of his metal minds and turns him into soulcast grain and bakes herself a loaf of Fullborn, which she eats with a mild curry later.