Blazenella he/him Posted January 18, 2018 Posted January 18, 2018 As a small preface I want to say that someone has probably thought of this, and even though I live on Arcanum someone is probably going to slap me in the face with a WoB (I'm looking at you R'Shara) But I think this theory has some good points. We know that Nightblood is made of metal (duh) and therefore would be VERY hard to awaken due to it never being "alive". We know that it was made with knowledge of Shardblades, but what if it was made with knowledge of other systems? Nightblood consumes investiture, and it's not picky as to which it does. Metals, Stormlight, Breath, it will use it. (Multiple WoB's confirm this) Not only can it take investiture, but it also "leaks" investiture. When it is unsheathed and "leaky" it turns into a powerhouse of investiture What shares similar attributes to this? Feruchemal Nicrosil. By no means am I saying this is correct or even makes much sense due to Feruchemy affects the user. But consider the fact that Nightblood has become sentient due to a surplus of breath inside of it. We know that large masses of investiture can become sentient, so what if Nightblood is both the metalmind and Feruchemist? Feel free to argue or agree as long as we have some good discussion
Calderis he/him Posted January 18, 2018 Posted January 18, 2018 According to Warbreaker, Vasher believes that Nightblood was created from steel. Not trying to negate your theory, just saying that according to one of the people involved in his creation, we have a belief of what it is made of. I'm not sure what nicrosil actually looks like, so I don't know how plausible mistaking one for the other is. If they look similar, than possibly. If not, then we would need some way to find out why Vasher would believe what he does.
RShara she/her Posted January 18, 2018 Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) Rude. Also did anyone other than TLR and maybe a few inquisitors/obligators know of the existence of Nicrosil pre-Catacendre? Wouldn't nicrosil have been rare or hard to make during TLR's reign, which is when Vasher would have visited (if he had visited Scadrial)? It seems unlikely that Vasher, as a visitor, would have been able to discover nicrosil and make enough of it to create a sword made of it. Edited January 18, 2018 by RShara
Spoolofwhool Posted January 18, 2018 Posted January 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, RShara said: Rude. Also did anyone other than TLR and maybe a few inquisitors/obligators know of the existence of Nicrosil pre-Catacendre? Wouldn't nicrosil have been rare or hard to make during TLR's reign, which is when Vasher would have visited (if he had visited Scadrial)? It seems unlikely that Vasher, as a visitor, would have been able to discover nicrosil and make enough of it to create a sword made of it. As far as I'm aware, neither chromium nor nicrosil were known or in use pre-Catacendre. This doesn't make it impossible for Vasher to have obtained it though as he could've gotten it from another source, but it is fairly unlikely that he could've learned about its feruchemical properties. 33 minutes ago, Blazenella said: Nightblood consumes investiture, and it's not picky as to which it does. Metals, Stormlight, Breath, it will use it. (Multiple WoB's confirm this) Not only can it take investiture, but it also "leaks" investiture. When it is unsheathed and "leaky" it turns into a powerhouse of investiture What shares similar attributes to this? Feruchemal Nicrosil. We don't really know enough about nicrosil feruchemy to say that it's actually storing investiture in that manner. Additionally, based on what we've seen so far of its use, it's more storing the ability to use a manifestation of investiture, not just investiture by itself.
Blazenella he/him Posted January 19, 2018 Author Posted January 19, 2018 Yep. All good points, we'll have to see.
StormingTexan he/him Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 Glad you made this post because I just saw a new WoB on this that muddies the water on what Nightblood is made of. Vasher says Nightblood is "awakened steel" in Warbreaker. This was an internal thought (info dump) so he was not telling someone this to try and keep a secret. Quote With Nightblood, she and Vasher had spent much time in thought, then finally chosen a simple, yet elegant, Command. “Destroy evil.” It had seemed like such a perfect, logical choice. There was only one problem, something neither of them had foreseen. How was an object of steel— an object that was so removed from life that it would find the experience of living strange and alien— supposed to understand what “evil” was? Sanderson, Brandon. Warbreaker (p. 482). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. We know Nightblood's sheath is aluminum Quote Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] What metal is Nightblood's sheath made out of? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Nightblood's sheath is aluminum. We know that Nightblood is not made out of the same metal as his sheath Quote Obbles [PENDING REVIEW] Is Nightblood made of the same material as the sheath? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] No. Good question. Then the most recent WoB Quote Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] What metal is Nightblood made out of Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Uh, RAFO. So a couple possibilities 1) Brandon is just throwing out miss-information on something we already knew. 2) Vasher is incorrect possibly Shashara used a different metal without Vasher's knowing.
digitalbusker he/him Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, StormingTexan said: So a couple possibilities 1) Brandon is just throwing out miss-information on something we already knew. 2) Vasher is incorrect possibly Shashara used a different metal without Vasher's knowing. 3) Brandon didn't remember off the top of his head whether he'd already canonized that and didn't want to risk conflicting with another published source. (I'm not saying this is definitely it, just including it for completeness.) 2
RShara she/her Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 40 minutes ago, digitalbusker said: 3) Brandon didn't remember off the top of his head whether he'd already canonized that and didn't want to risk conflicting with another published source. (I'm not saying this is definitely it, just including it for completeness.) This actually happens fairly often, and is the most likely reason.
StormingTexan he/him Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 @digitalbusker Yep that is for sure a possibility. Vasher does mention it to himself a few more times throughout the book to himself so thats a pretty big thing to forget but it could happen I guess.
RShara she/her Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 Just now, StormingTexan said: @digitalbusker Yep that is for sure a possibility. Vasher does mention it to himself a few more times throughout the book to himself so thats a pretty big thing to forget but it could happen I guess. Well Warbreaker was published almost 10 years ago, so I'm sure lots of it is fuzzy to him by now.
RShara she/her Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 Ah, here we go. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100-rbooks-ama-2015/#e3519 Quote shoeties Has Vasher ever been to a world other than Nalthis or Roshar, or was this his first time worldhopping? Brandon Sanderson Vasher has only been to Roshar and Nalthis, beyond places in Shadesmar. 2
Blazenella he/him Posted January 20, 2018 Author Posted January 20, 2018 1 hour ago, RShara said: Ah, here we go. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100-rbooks-ama-2015/#e3519 Knew you'd find it eventually, granted it could have been Shashara that has been to other planets
The One Who Connects he/him Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 11 hours ago, Blazenella said: Knew you'd find it eventually, granted it could have been Shashara that has been to other planets And now I shall say what I said last time: On 1/5/2018 at 5:56 PM, The One Who Connects said: Travel Destinations. Nightblood was created by Team Hanald(Vasher, Shashara, and Denth). Vasher is confirmed and Denth is implied to have not gone to Scadrial. That means that only Shashara could've went there. You posit that she went to Scadrial to find a material to experiment with, without either of her fellow scholars, one of whom was her brother and the other was her husband. I don't see her doing that. If she wasn't gonna provide all the details to her colleagues, why involve them at all? That and(much like the discussion I pulled this quote from) I'm not entirely sure Nicrosil and Steel are the same color. 1
GiveMeASpren(I'mCrazy) Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 Nicrosil is about 84% nickel, and almost all of what remains is chromium - so it probably looks a lot like steel, at least until it starts to rust (or not). That said, I don't know how strong it is compared to steel (it is pretty hard though) - but then again, because it's magical anyway I don't know how much it makes a difference, or if Vasher would notice.
Calderis he/him Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 2 hours ago, GiveMeASpren(I'mCrazy) said: Nicrosil is about 84% nickel, and almost all of what remains is chromium - so it probably looks a lot like steel, at least until it starts to rust (or not). That said, I don't know how strong it is compared to steel (it is pretty hard though) - but then again, because it's magical anyway I don't know how much it makes a difference, or if Vasher would notice. The problem is that 1.4% of what remains is silicone, which is really hard to alloy properly. I don't think Scadrial at the time had the tech level to pull it off.
RShara she/her Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 So because I like summaries, I'm going to summarize why I think this is unlikely. It helps me keep my mind clear, please bear with me. Nightblood does share some small similarity to nicrosil but: We have a WoB that Vasher has only been to Roshar and Nalthis. This means he would never have gone to Scadrial to learn about nicrosil. As the One Who Connects said, Quote Travel Destinations. Nightblood was created by Team Hanald(Vasher, Shashara, and Denth). Vasher is confirmed and Denth is implied to have not gone to Scadrial. That means that only Shashara could've went there. You posit that she went to Scadrial to find a material to experiment with, without either of her fellow scholars, one of whom was her brother and the other was her husband. I don't see her doing that. If she wasn't gonna provide all the details to her colleagues, why involve them at all? The time period that Nightblood was made was pre-Catacendre on Scadrial. That means that very very very few people knew that nicrosil even existed, let alone that it had Feruchemical or Allomantic properties. It's entirely possible that only the Lord Ruler, Ati, and Leras even knew it existed. The chances of Shashara discovering the metal, let alone what it did, is slim to nil. Manufacturing nicrosil is not easy, as Calderis mentioned. I don't think any accessible planet would have had the technology to create it. Remember that Taldain was locked away, and Sel is very dangerous to get to. Those two are the oldest and farthest along, technologically speaking, during TLR's reign. Vasher, Shashara's lover/husband, who helped to create Nightblood, thinks that Nightblood is made of steel. As he's a very scholarly and meticulous type of person, we have no reason to doubt his narrative. Nightblood is now black. I'm not a chemist, but I'm unaware of any chemical process that would make nicrosil permanently black. Given all of these things, Nightblood being anything other than steel is amazingly unlikely, to the point that I have to say it's essentially impossible by any standard of plausibility. 2
StormingTexan he/him Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 Just to add a little more context regarding nicrosil pre-Catacendre it would have been extremely rare if even existing from a pretty reliable source. Not really too much of a spoiler but from BoM Spoiler “Chromium,” VenDell said, “nicrosil, aluminum, duralumin. These aren’t metals that most ancients knew. Only in recent times have modern metallurgical processes allowed them to become commonplace.” “Commonplace?” Wayne said. “With a single aluminum bullet, mate, I could buy you an outfit that don’t look so stupid and have money left over for a nice hat or two.” “Be that as it may,” VenDell said, “compared to the amount of aluminum in the world before the Catacendre, the metal is now common. Bauxite refining, modern chemical processes, these have given us access to metals on a level that was never before possible. Why, the Last Obligator’s autobiography explains that early aluminum was harvested from the inside of the Ashmounts!” Sanderson, Brandon. The Bands of Mourning: A Mistborn Novel (p. 65). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 2
Doomdrinker she/her Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, StormingTexan said: Just to add a little more context regarding nicrosil pre-Catacendre it would have been extremely rare if even existing from a pretty reliable source. Not really too much of a spoiler but from BoM Reveal hidden contents “Chromium,” VenDell said, “nicrosil, aluminum, duralumin. These aren’t metals that most ancients knew. Only in recent times have modern metallurgical processes allowed them to become commonplace.” “Commonplace?” Wayne said. “With a single aluminum bullet, mate, I could buy you an outfit that don’t look so stupid and have money left over for a nice hat or two.” “Be that as it may,” VenDell said, “compared to the amount of aluminum in the world before the Catacendre, the metal is now common. Bauxite refining, modern chemical processes, these have given us access to metals on a level that was never before possible. Why, the Last Obligator’s autobiography explains that early aluminum was harvested from the inside of the Ashmounts!” Sanderson, Brandon. The Bands of Mourning: A Mistborn Novel (p. 65). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. This is of topic so I apologies but reading that quote has convinced me to start reading mistborn. 6
Alderant she/her Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 On 1/18/2018 at 5:26 PM, RShara said: Also did anyone other than TLR and maybe a few inquisitors/obligators know of the existence of Nicrosil pre-Catacendre? Wouldn't nicrosil have been rare or hard to make during TLR's reign, which is when Vasher would have visited (if he had visited Scadrial)? It seems unlikely that Vasher, as a visitor, would have been able to discover nicrosil and make enough of it to create a sword made of it. 12 hours ago, RShara said: The time period that Nightblood was made was pre-Catacendre on Scadrial. That means that very very very few people knew that nicrosil even existed, let alone that it had Feruchemical or Allomantic properties. It's entirely possible that only the Lord Ruler, Ati, and Leras even knew it existed. The chances of Shashara discovering the metal, let alone what it did, is slim to nil. Just a small note here: the Lord Ruler was not aware of the existence of nicrosil. He even said so in his metal plates scattered throughout the storehouses. The only metals he knew of were the base eight, gold, aluminum, possibly duralamin (that's not explicitly confirmed in the text, but Vin discovered it, so maybe), atium, malatium, and electrum. Logically therefore, if the Lord Ruler was ignorant than the feruchemists of the time were unaware of its existence as well, as the Lord Ruler was one of the ancient feruchemists from before the Final Empire. So as has been pointed out, the chances of Shashara deciding to go to Scadrial, which at the time would have been fairly treacherous to begin with according to Hoid's comments in Secret History, and track down a metal that was only known to Preservation (and possibly Ruin) at the time, mine it, find out its spiritual properties, and then haul enough ore back to Nalthis to forge into a sword of Nightblood's size, would have been nigh on impossible.
StormingTexan he/him Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 52 minutes ago, Doomdrinker said: This is of topic so I apologies but reading that quote has convinced me to start reading mistborn. Do it! The original trilogy is fantastic. I really like the Era 2 books as well but those may not be as unanimously liked. Same world just in a turn of the century setting.
Calderis he/him Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 @Alderant Mistborn spoilers Spoiler Just as his knowledge of hemalurgy, TLR would have gained knowledge of all the allomantic metals during his ascension. I believe the reason they were left out of the plates is again, the technology level. Why waste time explaining metals to a people who have literally no way to produce them? 1
The One Who Connects he/him Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Calderis said: Mistborn spoilers Spoiler Bear in mind that his knowledge of Hemalurgy was whispered to him by Ruin. I still agree with the rest of your post, but details are details.
StormingTexan he/him Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, Calderis said: @Alderant Mistborn spoilers Hide contents Just as his knowledge of hemalurgy, TLR would have gained knowledge of all the allomantic metals during his ascension. I believe the reason they were left out of the plates is again, the technology level. Why waste time explaining metals to a people who have literally no way to produce them? As a matter of fact there it text to support this as well in BoM. BoM spoilers below Spoiler “There are four individuals,” VenDell said, “who, to our knowledge, have held the power of Ascension. Rashek, the Survivor, the Ascendant Warrior, and Lord Harmony Himself. Harmony’s Ascension granted Him a precise and in-depth knowledge of the Metallic Arts. It stands to reason that the Lord Ruler gained the same information. He understood Identity as a Feruchemical ability, and knew the hidden metals. Indeed, he gave aluminum to his Inquisitors.” Sanderson, Brandon. The Bands of Mourning: A Mistborn Novel (p. 70). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.
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