Nightblood??

[Aleksiel]

I wonder if Nightblood can feed on stormlight like he took Breaths. But wouldn't Nightblood kill Szeth when he tries to use him now that Szeth can't infuse himself with stormlight?

[Gamma Fiend]

I bet he allowed someone to steal Nightblood, assuming they'd kill themself, but they survived with the sword. So he lost it.

Then he said, "Colorful Stormfather, that's bad." and turned into Zahel.

 

Colorful Stormfather! YES! Best cosmere-crossover curse word ever.

[Dahak]

I hope nothing happened to Vivenna. She is my favorite 

 

IIRC When Kaladin comes round after the first fight with Szeth, there is someone else living in Zahel's room.

 

[Havoc]

IIRC When Kaladin comes round after the first fight with Szeth, there is someone else living in Zahel's room.

 

That is just a metaphor:

“Kid,” Zahel said, turning back toward him. “Two people live in this room.”

The boy frowned, looking at the single cot.

“The first,” Zahel said, “is a grouchy swordsman who has a soft spot for kids who are in over their heads. He comes out by day. The other is a very, very grouchy swordsman who finds everything and everyone utterly contemptible. He comes out when some fool wakes him at a horrid hour of the night. I suggest you ask the first man and not the second. All right?”

Edited March 8, 2014 by Havoc

[sonNeturo]

I'm sure I remember reading in another forum that Vasher had been on Roshar awhile (at least long enough to get a reputation and train Adolin), so what are the chances that Vi is there? Is she dead? Did she choose to stay on her world or did Vasher run off to do something he thought was important and leave her behind? Those distasteful decisions he spoke of perhaps and how the skybreakers have Nightbloodand. I wonder if having a talking sword that is not a spren and constantly talks about destroying evil effected Nan in any way.

Either way I can't wait for some Szeth/Zahel (Vasher) interaction where Nightblood is there and if Nightblood might recognize Vasher and prefer him or they have a nice chat about destroying evil.

And Szeth fighting a shardbearer with Nightblood would be almost too much awesomeness.

[Mikanium]

Chapter 81:  

 

There's a scene where Kaladin is talking with Zahen during the weeping, talking about the mini pure lake that Zahen made and Zahen says "Excellent Deduction, like fresh blue paint on a wall".  Proof enough for me that he's Vasher.  That would only make sense to an Awakener. Also, he calls Hoid "Dust'.

 

Dust:  

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/1597-hoids-other-pseudonyms/?p=27862#entry27862

 

 

What i don't understand is why all these folks are changing their name.   

Edited March 11, 2014 by Mikanium

[Wispsy]

I thought he was Vasher but dismissed it until coming here because I thought he would have no way of getting breaths on Roshar. I guess though he could either have loads of breaths and just be hiding his aura (same way returned can) or Stormlight could somehow be substituted.

 

Edit: And then I read brandons q&a quotes and notice that it is just the place both want to be...I had to stay away from this site till WoR came out it hurt too much .

Edited March 13, 2014 by Wispsy

[PudgyNinja]

I thought he was Vasher but dismissed it until coming here because I thought he would have no way of getting breaths on Roshar. I guess though he could either have loads of breaths and just be hiding his aura (same way returned can) or Stormlight could somehow be substituted (although as they are different powers I would hesitate to believe that unless we see nightblood sucking in Stormlight too.

 

And see, I figured he came to Roshar specifically because they have all of this investiture just blowing around in the wind and he could feed off of that instead of Breath.

 

We know that he's still got a fair amount of breath.  He's got enough life sense to wake him out of a sleep when someone approached his house.

[Topomouse]

When I read the book I was fairly certain that Zahel was a worldhopper, and when he mentioned voices in his head i thought about someone from Scadrial, used to hear Ruin/Harmony. Then i came hear and found out everyone thinks he is Vasher and have very good reasons to do so.

But I'm still skeptical, his behaviour seems very different between the two books: in Warbreaker he was actively trying to make a difference in the world, here he seems content to laze around in a monastery training young men, it just doesn't fit to me.

I'm probably wrong, but until we have an official confirmation i'm going to believe he is not Vasher.

[name_here]

Here's a question that might have been answered elsewhere,

Could Vasher remove the breath that is in nightblood?

 

No. Quite aside of any other considerations, Deneth's sister was the one who actually Awakened Nightblood; Vasher apparently isn't able to Awaken non-organics. Only the original Awakener can recover Breath from an Awakened object, and Vasher killed her.

[Numb]

When I read the book I was fairly certain that Zahel was a worldhopper, and when he mentioned voices in his head i thought about someone from Scadrial, used to hear Ruin/Harmony. Then i came hear and found out everyone thinks he is Vasher and have very good reasons to do so.

But I'm still skeptical, his behaviour seems very different between the two books: in Warbreaker he was actively trying to make a difference in the world, here he seems content to laze around in a monastery training young men, it just doesn't fit to me.

I'm probably wrong, but until we have an official confirmation i'm going to believe he is not Vasher.

 

We don't know how he changed after Vi entered his live. He could also be waiting for her since we don't really know how world hopping works. Hoid seems to just be called to places and often isn't sure why he's there until events occur. At least I hope she's still alive and makes an appearance with him

[RShara]

Brandon said that "Zahel" is on Roshar because there is something there that he can get much more easily than where he's from

[PudgyNinja]

When I read the book I was fairly certain that Zahel was a worldhopper, and when he mentioned voices in his head i thought about someone from Scadrial, used to hear Ruin/Harmony. Then i came hear and found out everyone thinks he is Vasher and have very good reasons to do so.

But I'm still skeptical, his behaviour seems very different between the two books: in Warbreaker he was actively trying to make a difference in the world, here he seems content to laze around in a monastery training young men, it just doesn't fit to me.

I'm probably wrong, but until we have an official confirmation i'm going to believe he is not Vasher.

 

He might not be Vasher, but at the very least, many signs point towards him being from Nalthis.  Maybe it's Yesteel.

[Topomouse]

Of that I'm actually convinced, Nalthis is absolutely his most likely original world. I just want to be skeptical about him being specifically Vasher.

 

@Numb: That's a good point, we also don't know how much time passed between the two books so almost everything is possible, but it still seems to radical a change to me.

[Velnica]

How long was the gap (roughly) between Warbreaker and WoR? I have a feeling Vivenna is either dead, or decided to stay in Nalthis when she got old...

[Numb]

No one knows the timeline unfortunately. It could be 100s of years or just a few. Vivenna wouldn't go grow old if she reached the fifth? heightening.

 

I do wonder why Szeth wasn't drawn in by Nightblood. We have seen that he isn't really strong willed or he wouldn't have gone around killing people that was clearly against what he wished for. He also isn't pure so wouldn't Nightblood kill him like it does to other people? 

[Shale]

Nightblood's definition of "pure" is not exactly in line with a regular person's. If Szeth doesn't want to "misuse" the sword, then he should be able to coexist with it, although I'm not sure why he wouldn't feel sick while holding it then. Maybe having a lot of Investiture staves off that effect?

[Aminar]

It's likely been a couple hundred years since Warbreaker. Vivenna is almost certainly dead of old age. "Nightblood" will take place before this. There is no reason for it not to, as it should be returning to Warbreaker's world and characters. I say this because Zahel is OLD. Mentally and in the eyes. Not Hoid old. But old enough to want a form of retirement. Not to mention he's not cleaning up the mess he made lf Halendren anymore.

[Moogle]

Nightblood's definition of "pure" is not exactly in line with a regular person's. If Szeth doesn't want to "misuse" the sword, then he should be able to coexist with it, although I'm not sure why he wouldn't feel sick while holding it then. Maybe having a lot of Investiture staves off that effect?

 

Szeth never actually picked up the sword, so we don't know if he feels sick. I suspect he will. I'd put him in the Denth camp though - not exactly 'pure', but strong-willed enough to resist.

 

The annotations here go into detail:

 

When Nightblood was created, the Breaths infused in him did their best to interpret their Command. What they decided was evil was someone who would try to take the sword and use it for evil purposes, selling it, manipulating and extorting others, that sort of thing. Someone who wouldn’t want the sword for those reasons was determined to be good. If they touch the weapon, they feel sick. If others touch the weapon, their desire to kill and destroy with it is enhanced greatly.

...

Nightblood himself, unfortunately, doesn’t quite understand what good and evil are. (This is mentioned later in the text.) However, he knows that his master can determine who is good and who is evil—using the sword’s power to make people sick, or through other means. So, he pretty much just lets whoever is holding him decide what is evil. And if the one holding the sword determines—deep within their heart—that they are evil themselves, then they will end up killing themselves with the sword.

 

Szeth wants it for ostensibly 'good' purposes: bring justice to those who wrongfully punished him and to help protect against the Voidbringers.

 

... Probably.

 

Anyways, he seems to fall into the 'pure' category to me. But he also sees himself as evil and wants redemption and for the screams to go away.

 

He's got a strong enough will to handle the sword if it thinks he's evil, though, I think.

[Wispsy]

No one knows the timeline unfortunately. It could be 100s of years or just a few. Vivenna wouldn't go grow old if she reached the fifth? heightening.

 

I do wonder why Szeth wasn't drawn in by Nightblood. We have seen that he isn't really strong willed or he wouldn't have gone around killing people that was clearly against what he wished for. He also isn't pure so wouldn't Nightblood kill him like it does to other people? 

 

We have seen that he is infact very strong willed, this is what was explained at the end. He trusted the decision of his Stone Shamans and put himself through hell believing he was doing what was right by following the law.

[Numb]

That isn't my interpretation. Even when he realized that the Stone Shamans were wrong he kept doing it because to do otherwise was to admit that all he had done was wrong. He's just a coward that is hiding behind the law so he doesn't have to face the horrible things he has done. Even Kaladin calls him a coward at the end. Seems weak willed to me. 

[Moogle]

That isn't my interpretation. Even when he realized that the Stone Shamans were wrong he kept doing it because to do otherwise was to admit that all he had done was wrong.

 

What part are you referring to here? When the Stone Shamans turned out to be wrong in an undeniable fashion, Szeth gave up and let himself be killed so far as I can tell. When he had previous hints that they could be wrong, he gave up his Truthless duties and stopped assassinating Dalinar. He went back to Taravangian, and Taravangian convinced him (not that it took much) that Kaladin had an Honorblade, and so Szeth went back to kill Dalinar.

 

I think a part of Szeth was scared of owning up to his actions. He even says that, as I recall. But Kaladin is an incredibly poor judge of character, so I would hardly take his explanation of Szeth (when he met him precisely two times for a few minutes) as gospel. I think saying that Szeth is a coward and weak-willed is too simplistic, particularly when we get his PoVs after he's been driven insane (that seems to have been fixed, though). Szeth has many motivations and many feelings. Cowardice was not the only thing at play in his actions as Truthless, I think. Nalan has obviously been studying Szeth for quite some time, and I do trust him to make a somewhat accurate assessment of the situation and Szeth's desire to follow the laws of his people.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Moogle

[Numb]

I may just be too harsh on Szeth. Personally feel that is someone follows the law regardless of intent and does things they believe to be wrong because of the law that they in the wrong/weak willed so that's most likely skewing my view of Szeth. He clearly hates what he is doing but does it anyway just because it's his "law". Does it take strength or weakness to do that? I'm not sure

[Moogle]

He clearly hates what he is doing but does it anyway just because it's his "law". Does it take strength or weakness to do that? I'm not sure

 

I'd argue strength. Doing things you don't want to do is a sign of self-discipline to me.

 

(But then my views on the matter are quite different than those held by most here, I imagine. I consider Taravangian to be selfless for causing himself great personal sorrow and pain to save humanity, and Kaladin to be weaker-willed for reversing his previous positions just because he felt bad, to give you a reference point.)

 

I do agree that following THE LAWWWWW is a bit ridiculous in any case. I'm sure I'll still enjoy the heck out of book 3. Szeth really grew on me in WoR.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Moogle

[Shale]

I'd call what Szeth has "self-discipline," while Kaladin isn't very good at making himself do things that he doesn't want to but does have strong moral fiber.