theuntaintedchild Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 I have been re-reading Alloy of Law over my holiday break. When I came across a specific quote that made me pause and formulate an interesting theory about Trell. Due to spoilers the rest of this post will be in a spoiler box. Read at your own discretion. Particularly if you haven't read Secret History. Spoiler The quote is as follows; "The Church of the Survivor taught that the mists belonged to him, Kelsier, Lord of Mists. He appeared on nights when the mist was thick and gave his blessing to the independent. Whether they be thieves, scholars, anarchists, or a farmer who lived on his own land. Anyone who survived on his own -- or who thought for himself -- was someone who followed the Survifor, Whether he knew it or not. That's another thing the current establishment makes a mockery of, Miles thought. many of them claimed to belong to the Church of the Survivor, but discouraged their employees from thinking for themselves. Miles shook his head. Well, he no longer followed the Survivor. He'd found something better, Something that felt more true.' I think somewhere else in AoL,Trell is mentioned specifically by Miles. My theory is that Trell is an aspect of Autonomy and Autonomy's agent on Scadrial is the cognitive shadow formerly known as Kelsier. ("The cognitive shadow formerly known as Kelsier" will be my name if I'm ever an award winning artist of any variety). I've not given much thought to this idea apart from noticing the autonomy involved in Survivorism. If this theory has any truth to it at all I wonder what Harmony would think of having another shard living so closely to him. I don't think the red cloud was Autonomy I've always suspected that was Odium. But if Autonomy was also an evil shard and it was using Kelsier to get close to Harmony I could see an argument being made against Odium. Now all of you people who know much more than I do. Smash this theory to pieces!!!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ILuvHats Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 This is currently one of the most popular theories about Trell. A lot of people have noticed independence is sort of a theme when it comes to him/her, especially in SoS, with Bleeder talking about “freeing” people as well as the fact that she herself is freed from Harmony’s influence thanks to a Trellium spike. The second letter, which I BELIEVE was confirmed by a recent WoB that hasn’t been posted on Arcanum yet, only makes this theory more likely if Autonomy is actually colonizing the Cosmere. I disagree though that Kelsier is an agent of Autonomy. Hypothetically it’s possible. But, the tenets of Survivorism look like they’ve been based off of Kelsier’s personality. What you interpret as indications of Autonomy’s influence, I think are just a reflection of Kelsiers life. After all, he spent his entire life outside of governmental control and fought against TLR himself, so he epitomized independence and thinking for oneself in a way. Plus, I doubt that Trell has been around long enough to influence Survivorism for the last 300 years. Harmony hasn’t been fighting actively against him/her until recently by using Wax, Wayne, etc as agents. I mean, we did see him molding Wax by sending him Lessie a number of years ago. Still, you’d think he would have been making more preparations if Trell had arrived long enough ago to influence Survivorism. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theuntaintedchild Posted January 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Ah so you are saying that Trell is latching onto a pre-existing independent train of thought/religion. I think you've got it down better than I have. My only real reason to push Kelsier into this is that Sanderson has stated before that you can kind of see what Kelsier is up to during this era if you look hard enough. To see a connection between Survivorism and Trell/Autonomy I thought I was onto something. Looks like I'll have to wait for Secret History II. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 10 hours ago, theuntaintedchild said: Ah so you are saying that Trell is latching onto a pre-existing independent train of thought/religion. I think you've got it down better than I have. My only real reason to push Kelsier into this is that Sanderson has stated before that you can kind of see what Kelsier is up to during this era if you look hard enough. To see a connection between Survivorism and Trell/Autonomy I thought I was onto something. Looks like I'll have to wait for Secret History II. What Kelsier has been up to, is being the Sovereign. The coin the is a coppermind that wax uses at the end, contains a memory from Kelsier in southern Scadrial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theuntaintedchild Posted January 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 On 1/5/2018 at 5:28 PM, Calderis said: What Kelsier has been up to, is being the Sovereign. The coin the is a coppermind that wax uses at the end, contains a memory from Kelsier in southern Scadrial. I did know about his being the Sovereign and the coin, I guess I just assumed one could work out more of what he was up to if one paid close attention. I didn't realize Sanderson just completely let it be known all that he was up to during the Wax and Wayne era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, theuntaintedchild said: I did know about his being the Sovereign and the coin, I guess I just assumed one could work out more of what he was up to if one paid close attention. I didn't realize Sanderson just completely let it be known all that he was up to during the Wax and Wayne era. Well we don't know that that's everything, but as far as I'm aware, that is the clues in the book that was we have. That said... What we do know is pretty storming big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 I think Trell is Autonomy, but I doubt Kelsier works for her. It would be a pretty big departure from his character. Kelsier is loyal to Scadrial and its people, and he also loves Sazed and Marsh, two people he would have to fight as agent of Autonomy. He will probably work against any Shardic invasion, unless Sazed turns into a new TLR/Ruin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theuntaintedchild Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 20 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said: I think Trell is Autonomy, but I doubt Kelsier works for her. It would be a pretty big departure from his character. Kelsier is loyal to Scadrial and its people, and he also loves Sazed and Marsh, two people he would have to fight as agent of Autonomy. He will probably work against any Shardic invasion, unless Sazed turns into a new TLR/Ruin. I'm starting to agree with the general consensus that Kelsier has little to do helping Autonomy. That being said one can't trust departures from character though. I think one of the letters said that Ati was once very kind and generous. If Autonomy did have control of Kelsier his love for freedom might surpass that of his friends. I'm definitely leaning more towards the idea now that Trell/Autonomy is using Survivorism in order to convert people to Trellism. The Religions are basically the same only one of them is an actual god of freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 What if Trell is our introduction to the fainlife? Only a double shard holder at the very least would take on Harmony. It is after book 5 of SA so maybe Odium is picked up by another shard. Whatever Trell is, its definitely corrupted investiture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHeadHancho Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 I can't find the quote but I know that Brandon has stated that there are only two shards on Scadrial. (which he stated to be Ruin and Preservation combined as Harmony) Trell must be something else. Maybe its a splinter of Autonomy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 On 1/10/2018 at 3:50 PM, Thanatos said: What if Trell is our introduction to the fainlife? What makes you think this? I'm genuinely curious, given how "out of left field" this feels. Toss an expanded train of thoughts into the topic, see where the discussion goes. On 1/10/2018 at 3:50 PM, Thanatos said: Only a double shard holder at the very least would take on Harmony. Odium didn't appear to have too much trouble with Aona and Skai. (I get your point and can see the argument against my statement, but it's still somewhat valid) On 1/10/2018 at 3:50 PM, Thanatos said: It is after book 5 of SA so maybe Odium is picked up by another shard. Wax/Wayne is between SA 5 and SA 6. Odium survives to see Stormlight 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 @Thanatos Sazed has more Raw Power and nothing more. Rayse is far more skilled with godhood and he actually fought that kind of battles multiples times...I will be' not so sure about the outcome of their match, for example I will bet on Rayse, a riskful net but I saw him as favorite in the fight. By the way, Brandon too confirmed about the not so "Harmony is too powerful" point, as when asked about this fight....He replied comparing him to an Elend VS Vin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Milvus Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Right now we think that Autonomy is from Taldain, right? I noticed that in the most recent White Sand graphic novel, Kenton meets a builder named Trell. Whilst possibly unrelated, I find it unlikely that a name with that significance would be thrown around so easily. White Sand is set far before the other Cosmere stories, and many of it’s characters become worldhoppers etc. Perhaps the Trell presented here is somehow the origin of the Trell shown in Mistborn? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Nice catch! This topic was from before WS vol 2 came out. The question now is, did trell actually ascend to avatar status, or did autonomy create one based on trell. Mostly the questions now are about how avatars work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormblessedSurvivor Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 I've been reading the Way of Kings again and i noticed the interlude with Ishikk where it talks about Nu Ralik and Vun Makak-the jealous younger brother. To me this sounds kind of like Trell, they don't worship the sun. Is this just a coincidence or does anyone else think they're related? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, StormblessedSurvivor said: I've been reading the Way of Kings again and i noticed the interlude with Ishikk where it talks about Nu Ralik and Vun Makak-the jealous younger brother. To me this sounds kind of like Trell, they don't worship the sun. Is this just a coincidence or does anyone else think they're related? Unfortunately, it's coincidence. Quote Paladin Brewer (paraphrased) Is there a link between Trell and Nalt from Mistborn and Nu Ralik and Van Makik from Stormlight? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) "No, there isn't, maybe just tenuously." He said something like that. He seemed confused that I asked that. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormblessedSurvivor Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 Thanks for clarifying that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 Maybe "Trell" is the name of a Shard we know because we know the name "Trell," and we know the Shard of [whatever Trell is the Vessel of] as the Shard attacking Scadrial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormblessedSurvivor Posted November 17, 2018 Report Share Posted November 17, 2018 Also trellium would follow the pattern of naming god metals after the Vessel-atium, lerasium...Brandon has said Harmony just liked the name "Harmonium" better than "Sazedium" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted November 18, 2018 Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 Brandon has said we can call it Trellium because he hasn't given it an official name, yet. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/74-shadows-of-self-san-jose-signing/#e7776 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeltWillSaveUs Posted November 18, 2018 Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 After posting a therory on Kel world hopping to Roshar, I reread secret history again trying to only focus on who the character of Kel is becoming. Secrets have always been his thing and Kel doesn't want to be surprised because of his cosmere ignorance again. So, I think he will search out every secret that he can. So, in that way, I could see him working with or running a con on any shard or other power that he comes across. So, he could seem to be associated with Trell, but I agree with the others that Kel wouldn't be in alliance with a force that opposes Scadrial in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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