[OB] Flying ships

[bdoble97]

When we get to see the drawings of the lack for a better term flying ships that Navani was having designed I started think of all kinds of amazing epic battles scenes of flying ship armadas Riding the Storm into battle against the fused. I very much think we will be seeing these in the future books

[StormingTexan he/him]

Yeah would be pretty sweet. I think this may be foreshadowing on how they will try to regain Kholinar or possible even go to the Horneater Peaks. 

[mosaab]

Some posters here think this is technological advancement, divorced of any magic. But I don't agree, I think the fact that we saw the designs in the same chapter kaladin took navani and her ardent flying is indicative of a correlation.  

You can say radiants can fly why would they need flying ships ? But we clearly see the limitations of lashing this book, you can't take shardplate, you can only lash so many  people, you have to always be vigilant for strong winds, etc..

Or you can lash a ship in a certain direction and take a nap while you have an entire crew to man the ship and be on the lookout for enemies, etc..

[bdoble97]

13 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

Yeah would be pretty sweet. I think this may be foreshadowing on how they will try to regain Kholinar or possible even go to the Horneater Peaks. 

I definitely think it's a foreshadowing I should have said that good point on you.

 

6 minutes ago, mosaab said:

Some posters here think this is technological advancement, divorced of any magic. But I don't agree, I think the fact that we saw the designs in the same chapter kaladin took navani and her ardent flying is indicative of a correlation.  

You can say radiants can fly why would they need flying ships ? But we clearly see the limitations of lashing this book, you can't take shardplate, you can only lash so many  people, you have to always be vigilant for strong winds, etc..

Or you can lash a ship in a certain direction and take a nap while you have an entire crew to man the ship and be on the lookout for enemies, etc..

Imagine all the archers that could be on that just raining down arrows to the parshendi army. Or chard bears with chard bows could be like missiles down on the enemy Infantry

[aemetha he/him]

On 08/12/2017 at 9:18 AM, mosaab said:

Some posters here think this is technological advancement, divorced of any magic. But I don't agree, I think the fact that we saw the designs in the same chapter kaladin took navani and her ardent flying is indicative of a correlation.

I suspect you're right.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/124-drogakrolowpl-interview/#e1807

Quote

DrogaKrolow

Technological progress. So Scadrial is going all the way to cyberpunk.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

DrogaKrolow

But do you plan to do it anywhere else?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, with an asterisk, right? Roshar has a very different technological path but they have access to so much more Investiture in an easy to use format. Roshar is really heading toward what we call magicpunk, or things like this, magepunk, where you are using a magical power source and things like this. So their technology is going to go weird but it's going to go fast once they start figuring things out because they have easy access to Investiture resources.

Scadrial: slower for various reasons and things like that, but it's ahead.

And then there was Taldain, which was really far ahead but then froze when it got-- Offworld travel was stopped and it became isolationist.

So most everybody is kind of heading that direction but, yeah.

 

[Calderis he/him]

I don't think it's divorced of magic. It's a Fabrial-Tech advancement. The connection with Kaladin's flight isn't coincidental because it's an inspiration for the reason to want flying ships. The speed of travel and the tactical abilities of flight are much more obvious when you've experienced them. 

Tying up your Radiants to do so is a liability. This is an obvious expansion of the floating platforms we've already seen that require no Radiant be used. This is further evidence of the technological revolution that is taking place, moving Roshar towards a magi-punk setting. 

[bdoble97]

8 hours ago, Ookla, the Incalculable said:

I don't think it's divorced of magic. It's a Fabrial-Tech advancement. The connection with Kaladin's flight isn't coincidental because it's an inspiration for the reason to want flying ships. The speed of travel and the tactical abilities of flight are much more obvious when you've experienced them. 

Tying up your Radiants to do so is a liability. This is an obvious expansion of the floating platforms we've already seen that require no Radiant be used. This is further evidence of the technological revolution that is taking place, moving Roshar towards a magi-punk setting. 

It's going to be really cool to read about all the new inventions that come up with and the remainder of the books we still have seven Stormlight Archives books that's amazing and so exciting. I just keep on visualizing a Armada of flying ships raining death down on the the enemy troops. It would be such a visually stunning scene I wish I could draw better than I do because I would try to draw that

[thejopen27 he/him]

This topic should be named Flying Ships!

[Heretic he/him]

21 hours ago, Ookla, the Incalculable said:

I don't think it's divorced of magic. It's a Fabrial-Tech advancement. The connection with Kaladin's flight isn't coincidental because it's an inspiration for the reason to want flying ships. The speed of travel and the tactical abilities of flight are much more obvious when you've experienced them. 

Tying up your Radiants to do so is a liability. This is an obvious expansion of the floating platforms we've already seen that require no Radiant be used. This is further evidence of the technological revolution that is taking place, moving Roshar towards a magi-punk setting. 

I mean, we’ve seen that Shallan is able to tie her illusions to a sphere. Maybe windrunners could eventually be able to do something similar with lashings. They could put a half lashing on a ship at Urithiru and tie it to a gemstone on the ship. 

[Calderis he/him]

42 minutes ago, Heretic said:

I mean, we’ve seen that Shallan is able to tie her illusions to a sphere. Maybe windrunners could eventually be able to do something similar with lashings. They could put a half lashing on a ship at Urithiru and tie it to a gemstone on the ship. 

Which would make the ship impossible to steer as it would be falling in a set direction. 

[BeskarKomrk he/him]

2 minutes ago, Ookla, the Incalculable said:

Which would make the ship impossible to steer as it would be falling in a set direction. 

Yeah, it would need to be able to manipulate the Surge on its own like a Soulcaster does.

[Heretic he/him]

28 minutes ago, Ookla, the Incalculable said:

Which would make the ship impossible to steer as it would be falling in a set direction. 

Wouldn’t an upwards half lashing applied to a ship make it effectively weightless though? Then it could use a sail to steer and navigate 

[Calderis he/him]

30 minutes ago, Heretic said:

Wouldn’t an upwards half lashing applied to a ship make it effectively weightless though? Then it could use a sail to steer and navigate 

But if that's all you need, why bother with a Radiant at all when we have evidence of fabrials able to do something similar? 

[Heretic he/him]

16 minutes ago, Ookla, the Incalculable said:

But if that's all you need, why bother with a Radiant at all when we have evidence of fabrials able to do something similar? 

That’s a valid point but aren’t those types of fabrials relatively new? Plus they’re related to conjoined fabrials, which are used for spanreeds and if I remember correctly, those don’t work while moving and have a limit to how far apart they can be. If similar limitations apply, it might be more practical to just have a windrunner lash the ship up, especially if they can somehow join it to a gemstone like lightweavers can do with illusions 

[Calderis he/him]

14 minutes ago, Heretic said:

That’s a valid point but aren’t those types of fabrials relatively new? Plus they’re related to conjoined fabrials, which are used for spanreeds and if I remember correctly, those don’t work while moving and have a limit to how far apart they can be. If similar limitations apply, it might be more practical to just have a windrunner lash the ship up, especially if they can somehow join it to a gemstone like lightweavers can do with illusions 

All fabrials are relatively new. Spanreeds are a couple decades old. We're watching an insanely rapid technological explosion. 

Navani is an artifabrian. 

I'm not saying that it's not possible, but it's far less interesting. We also have no evidence that a lashing can be anchored in that way. Lashing infuse the stormlight directly into the object to be effected. 

All together, I think Navani would be far more likely to expand the tech she knows intimately to take advantage of the things the Radiants are doing, then to rely on them as a crutch in place of technological advances. 

[Heretic he/him]

15 minutes ago, Ookla, the Incalculable said:

All fabrials are relatively new. Spanreeds are a couple decades old. We're watching an insanely rapid technological explosion. 

Navani is an artifabrian. 

I'm not saying that it's not possible, but it's far less interesting. We also have no evidence that a lashing can be anchored in that way. Lashing infuse the stormlight directly into the object to be effected. 

All together, I think Navani would be far more likely to expand the tech she knows intimately to take advantage of the things the Radiants are doing, then to rely on them as a crutch in place of technological advances. 

You’re definitely right and using the Radiants as a crutch is not a very Navani thing to do. My theory is that, at least initially, we’ll see these ships requiring a Windrunner to make them work and then later on they’ll be able to fly under their own power. My guess is that’ll happen after the timeskip between books five and six as there will probably be enough time in between to perfect the technology. It could happen before then, since I don’t think we know how much time will have passed between Oathbringer and books four and five, but I feel like book six would be a safe bet for when the tech will have been perfected. Regardless of when it happens I’m really excited to see how these ships will be made and used

[Fulminato he/him]

9 hours ago, BeskarKomrk said:

Yeah, it would need to be able to manipulate the Surge on its own like a Soulcaster does.

i agree, we see a fabrial using the surge of progression (regrow) and transport (oathgate). build a fabrial manipulating the surge of gravitation is in the ability of the fabrial.

navani in the Aharietiam vision bully a stoneward in the regard of the regrow fabrial, in that moment he don't understand how works, but i think possibile that event give the key for understand surge-fabrial

[mosaab]

2 hours ago, Fulminato said:

i agree, we see a fabrial using the surge of progression (regrow) and transport (oathgate). build a fabrial manipulating the surge of gravitation is in the ability of the fabrial.

navani in the Aharietiam vision bully a stoneward in the regard of the regrow fabrial, in that moment he don't understand how works, but i think possibile that event give the key for understand surge-fabrial

Fabrials are made by trapping lesser spren, the oathgate spren were commanded by honor himself to function. 

Having access to surges by fabrial technology is extremely underwhelming, also the surges are granted by sentient spren so unless you are going to enslave them, you will have to pay a price. 

the soulcasters should be our example of what surges without nahal bonds would work, you could soulcast but the lack of a nahal bond slowly destroys you identity.

e.g. you can have access to gravitation but your connection to the planet gets worse with time, to the point where can't land on a surface without wanting to immediately leave it, because you have been manipulating the gravity of objects now it's starting to affect you, or something to that effect.

the other way is safer but more dependent on radiants, notice how the radiant in the flash back said she needs to preserve regrowth to those who might need it more, but why would she need to use it sparinly if it creates regrowth? Surely if work like the surge it can be fed stormlight? See, i don't think the fabrial creates regrowth, I think it stores regrowth.

Store gravitation and put it on ships to fly, store illumination and make movies. 

My prediction for future roshar is as the human and spren get closer to each other and find other way to get what they want from each other, without the risks and limitations the nahal bond would place on them, that way you could show technological advancement without removing the allure of radiants of old.

Mistborn, bands of mourning spoiler

Spoiler

We already have an example of something like this happening in mistborn era 2, where you can bend the metallic arts left and right but you still need someone with innate ability to creat the metal minds and fill them to begin with.

I just really don't like the idea of wasting so much time telling us how awesome it is to radiant, only to turn around and say any one with a right fabrial can access the surges now.

 

[Calderis he/him]

4 hours ago, mosaab said:

I just really don't like the idea of wasting so much time telling us how awesome it is to radiant, only to turn around and say any one with a right fabrial can access the surges now.

Fabrials can reproduce everything that the surges can do. 

Quote

Argent (paraphrased)

Fabrials replicate Soulcasting abilities. Is it possible for fabrials to replicate all such Surgebinding abilities?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, good question! Fabrials can replicate all of the Surgebinding abilities.

This will never result in a "Fabrial Radiant" though. Fabrials by their very nature express one specific use of a surge, and only one. For a person to be able to do everything that a Radiant can, they'd have to be carrying enough fabrials that they would be difficult to keep track of. 

I have visions of a character who is kind of a Fabrial-Tech Batman, but even that wouldn't be the same thing. They'd need to be remarkably skilled on their own, and then have Fabrial gadgets to aid them. The flexibility of a Radiant will never be replicable by a fabrial though. 

Edited December 10, 2017 by Ookla, the Incalculable

[aemetha he/him]

18 minutes ago, Ookla, the Incalculable said:

This will never result in a "Fabrial Radiant" though. Fabrials by their very nature express one specific use of a surge, and only one. For a person to be able to do everything that a Radiant can, they'd have to be carrying enough fabrials that they would be difficult to keep track of. 

Fabrial Radiant in full Frabrialplate armour. Someone should make a movie of this .

[mosaab]

But the only surge fabrials we see :

- the soulcaster, where it affects your identity every time you use it.

- the regrowth fabrial seems to store surges more then just create them.

 

[gawwyt]

Kinda off topic but..

If we don't get a scene with "Captain" Kaladin and bridge 4 flying on a fabrial sky ship singing seasky-shanties I WILL RIOT.

[Heretic he/him]

11 minutes ago, gawwyt said:

Kinda off topic but..

If we don't get a scene with "Captain" Kaladin and bridge 4 flying on a fabrial sky ship singing seasky-shanties I WILL RIOT.

Never before have I wanted something so much without realizing it. 

[Subvisual Haze]

More than a battle ship, it would more sense as a transport to move people and goods around.  The destructive power of highstorms severely inhibit the development of transportation infrastructure like roads/canals on Roshar, and the gates only move to specific locations.

Large airships could move a lot of goods or people though, they'd just need a Windrunner or a Skybreaker and some Stormlight to move them to their destination.

[Stark he/him]

So Scadrial Era 2 has steampunk airships powered by Feruchemy/Allomancy.  Roshar is not far from magepunk airships, fairly close to Scadrial era 2.  I can see Nalthis joining in with Awakened sail-wings, to fly like a bird.

 

Who else wants to see the first ever inter-Cosmere skyship races?  Mario Kart style, with a set race course around each planet.  Roshar gets to be the Rainbow road equivalent with the Highstorms to dodge.  And seeing as the translation of the notes seems to indicate that Jasnah favours the sleek, racer/interceptor design, I can see luxury racing ships being a thing.

 

So what do you all think?  How would each Shardworld design and build their racers, and who would the pilots be?

 

Last thought, if Highstorm Racers become a thing on Roshar, does that change the restrictions on the champion battles with Odium?  Could they instead of a fight, challenge his champion to a race?