[OB] Half-shards? What Could Go Wrong?

[hoser]

Quote

"Half-shard?" he (Dalinar) said, noting a steel box - with a gemstone inside - fastened to the inner surface.

...

"That gemstone," Taravangian said, "imprisons the kind of spren that gives things substance, the kind that holds the world together.  We have entrapped in that shield something that, at another time, might have blessed a Knight Radiant."

So wait!  Our heroes need lots of Knights Radiant?  Taravangian has means of reducing the spren available to bond potential Knights?  Luckily Mr. T is a trustworthy ally, not a traitor making private arrangements with Odium.  Otherwise I might be worried.  

I'm sure it's just a random bit of world-building and not a detail that will turn out to be relevant later.

Are these spren that allow manipulation of Gravity, Adhesion, Tension?  I imagine the realmatic scholars among us can figure out what orders' spren is involved.  

I look forward to learning from the responses.  

Edited December 5, 2017 by hoser

[Aleksiel]

I doubt it would be gravity because there were no honorspren to trap until recently and highspren seem to stick to those close to SB and act together, so those trapped spren should be from radiant types that wander on their own. Lightspren went searching for human just recently, so it's not them. Wyndle and the Circle along with Cryptics who also stick together and plan... But if I go by this logic I eliminate the Orders we've seen and shouldn't those we haven't be less likely to be trapped by Vargo as they do not wander in PR? 

But may be 'blessed a KR' is a hint to another direction - if it was about radiantspren, they wouldn't bless KR, but regular people. So lesser spren associated with certain Orders? Those seem abundant.

[RShara]

The only Radiant spren that I can think of that would fit would be the Stonewards' spren.  We don't know anything about them, other than that they allow the Stonewards to reshape rock--which could be something like "the kind that holds the world together."  Substancespren?  Matterspren?

Or it could just be a bindspren, and T is mistaken in thinking it would be a KR spren.

Ooooh...or it could be a kind of spren that makes Shardplate for one of the Orders. We have a few more options for that, though Stonewards still seem the most likely.

[Guest Procrastinationspren]

2 minutes ago, RShara said:

The only Radiant spren that I can think of that would fit would be the Stonewards' spren.  We don't know anything about them, other than that they allow the Stonewards to reshape rock--which could be something like "the kind that holds the world together."  Substancespren?  Matterspren?

Or it could just be a bindspren, and T is mistaken in thinking it would be a KR spren.

Ooooh...or it could be a kind of spren that makes Shardplate for one of the Orders. We have a few more options for that, though Stonewards still seem the most likely.

The stonewards surges are cohesion and tension. Cohesion sounds like something that would make a shield stronger. So that's a point for the stonewardspren theory.

[echaozh]

12 minutes ago, Procrastinationspren said:

The stonewards surges are cohesion and tension. Cohesion sounds like something that would make a shield stronger. So that's a point for the stonewardspren theory.

I'd rather guess at tension. BS specifically mentions making cloth hard to be used as weapon when he describes how tension works.

[Calderis]

I've said it on discord, and I'll say it here. It's hyperbole. Until Brandon tells us a Nahel Spren is in that gem I won't believe it, because it makes no sense. 

How do you even attract a sapient spren to trap it? 

[Aleksiel]

10 minutes ago, Ookla, the Incalculable said:

How do you even attract a sapient spren to trap it? 

They are sentient, but not so much in the PR without bond, and while one or several may fall for the trap, it's unlikely to continue. How do you keep trapping them? Note Vargo says those spren might have 'blessed a KR', so I don't think he's talking about radiantspren as those 'bless' regular people.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Aleksiel

[Leuthie]

Function wise, going by T's "blessed a KR" description, and assuming that the spren surrounding our KRs when they're being especially awesome are the ones that lead to Shardplate, I'd have to to with one of those spren in the half shard gem.  Windspren, creationspren, etc

[Calderis]

But no one in world knows how to make plate, even for us it's just a theory. And you can't even credit T for then, as they were made in Jah Keved before he was King.

[digitalbusker]

49 minutes ago, Ookla, the Incalculable said:

But no one in world knows how to make plate, even for us it's just a theory. And you can't even credit T for then, as they were made in Jah Keved before he was King.

I see no reason that you'd need to understand the way radiants got Shardplate to create half shards. Taravangian could know that because reasons without having been involved in the R&D.

That said I think we're reading too much into the "blessed a Knight Radiant" clause, and it probably is a radiant spren trapped during the vulnerable period after making the transition but before finding somebody to bond.

Do you want to tell Syl she's not blessing Kaladin in an ongoing way?

[Edgedancer_of_spirits]

If we are talking about half shards here, then what if someone reversed the effects of a fabrial inside one? Could they replicate the Surge of Division?

[Pathfinder]

On 12/4/2017 at 7:48 PM, Calderis said:

How do you even attract a sapient spren to trap it? 

Apparently the same way you attract emotion spren:

 

Questioner

The Nahel bond, what determines whether you get a Cryptic or an honorspren?

Brandon Sanderson

The spren themselves.

Questioner

So it doesn't have to do with the Orders of the Knights Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

If you match, you have to attract the spren, the same way you attract emotionspren, you have to attract the right spren for the Order.

[Karger]

I never interpreted this to mean that sapiant spren were being bonded.  For one thing there must be a relatively limited number of sapiant spren and I have no idea how you would go about catching them.  Even if you could catch them there must be an incredible limited number of them available in the physical realm and I don't think the people building these have access to shadesmar.

[Edgedancer_of_spirits]

6 hours ago, Karger said:

I never interpreted this to mean that sapiant spren were being bonded.  For one thing there must be a relatively limited number of sapiant spren and I have no idea how you would go about catching them.  Even if you could catch them there must be an incredible limited number of them available in the physical realm and I don't think the people building these have access to shadesmar.

Well, spren are Splinters of Adonalsium, so sapient ones are rare.

[Karger]

Just now, Edgedancer_of_spirits said:

Well, spren are Splinters of Adonalsium, so sapient ones are rare.

While technically true spren are more accurately described splinters of Honor Cultivation or Odium.  Other cognitive entities exist but on Roshar we only realy care about those three.

[Edgedancer_of_spirits]

Here's a link on where I got my info from. Spren 

[Karger]

2 hours ago, Edgedancer_of_spirits said:

Here's a link on where I got my info from. Spren 

Spren are fragments of the powers of creation that have since then gained sentience through the influence of sapient beings on Roshar.^[2] They are vastly varied in their appearances, characteristics, and levels of intelligence.^[3] Most spren consist of the essences of Honor and Cultivation, or a mixture of both that leans towards either one Shard or the other.

[Edgedancer_of_spirits]

The powers of creation ARE Adonalsium. Look at your first link.

[Turin Turambar]

On 12/4/2017 at 7:01 PM, hoser said:

So wait!  Our heroes need lots of Knights Radiant?  Taravangian has means of reducing the spren available to bond potential Knights?  Luckily Mr. T is a trustworthy ally, not a traitor making private arrangements with Odium.  Otherwise I might be worried.  

My understanding is spren are like bugs. Even nahel-bond worthy spren, there are millions or billions of them.

[Karger]

On 6/26/2019 at 10:45 AM, Edgedancer_of_spirits said:

The powers of creation ARE Adonalsium. Look at your first link.

Everything in the Cosmere has gained a "flavor" and is controlled by one of the shards. 

The powers of creation were Adonalsium and are now the shards. 

[RShara]

34 minutes ago, Turin Turambar said:

My understanding is spren are like bugs. Even nahel-bond worthy spren, there are millions or billions of them.

There are definitely not millions or billions of Nahel spren. Most of them died 2000 years ago, so their populations are still recovering. And even then, since the majorities of them were bonded, and there were never millions of Knights, I'd say hundreds or thousands at the most.

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Turin Turambar said:

My understanding is spren are like bugs. Even nahel-bond worthy spren, there are millions or billions of them.

You are conflating ordinary spren with Nale bond worthy ones.  Considering that captain Ico and Syl both new each other fairly well limits the spren population considerably.

[cometaryorbit]

2 hours ago, RShara said:

There are definitely not millions or billions of Nahel spren. Most of them died 2000 years ago, so their populations are still recovering. And even then, since the majorities of them were bonded, and there were never millions of Knights, I'd say hundreds or thousands at the most.

Yeah, I get the impression that there are not many at all post-Recreance. Originally, probably a few thousand; we see 300 KR in the Feverstone Keep vision, from two Orders. If that was all of those Orders, and if those numbers are representative for the nine non-Bondsmith Orders, there were probably somewhere around 1200-1500 KR total, so, if the majority were bonded... maybe 2000 or so Nahel spren?

[Turin Turambar]

On 6/28/2019 at 0:50 AM, Karger said:

Considering that captain Ico and Syl both new each other fairly well limits the spren population

I thought was because captain Ico a ) was an honor spren, b ), worked for her "father," if i remember correctly

[Karger]

3 hours ago, Turin Turambar said:

I thought was because captain Ico a ) was an honor spren, b ), worked for her "father," if i remember correctly

Their are only 10 orders of Radiant spren and one of those has only three members.  If every spren in the community knows almost every other spren and spren memories and social structures are anything like human ones that limits the spren population of each group to only a couple hundred members.