FirstSelector Posted September 3, 2010 Report Share Posted September 3, 2010 Brandon has made it quite clear that various numbers play a large role in his cosmere. While the number sixteen receives quite a bit of attention in Mistborn, I have found that the number ten is also significant. A short list (from memory) looks like: Sixteen - Shards of Adonalsium - Allomantic metals Ten - Heightenings - "Allomantic metals" when Kelsier first tells Vin - Heralds - Essences - Orders of Knights Radiant - Highprinces - Devotaries in Vorinism - heartbeats to summon a Shardblade This is by no means complete, and I would like to know if anyone else has seen additional groups of objects or other numbers that are significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rew Posted September 3, 2010 Report Share Posted September 3, 2010 3 seems like an important number also (maybe of lesser import?) -3 basic portions of every Aon (2 lines and a dot- although this was upped by one...) -3 necessities for Awakening -3 types of (related) magic in Mistborn -3 lashing types (might change?) -First Ideal consists of Three phrases, all of three words (Life before Death, Strength before Weakness, Journey before Destination) There's probably some more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted September 4, 2010 Report Share Posted September 4, 2010 Three Shards on Roshar, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcorePooka Posted September 4, 2010 Report Share Posted September 4, 2010 I'm also noticing some with 5 at the moment. 5 sub-types of fabrials. 5 ideals for each order of the Knights Radiant (if I remember correctly... don't feel like going back through the book to find where I read that) Also, to add to the list of threes, three main types of Fabrials(Altering, Pairing, Warning) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted September 4, 2010 Report Share Posted September 4, 2010 I'm actually the number of fabrial types to expand to ten by the end of the series. Each one is tied to a specific type of gem and there are ten of those used in the various magic systems, so it seems natural that the fabrial types would be tied in there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munin Posted September 12, 2010 Report Share Posted September 12, 2010 There's four types of Biochromatic entities. Can't think of anything else with that number, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew the Great Posted September 12, 2010 Report Share Posted September 12, 2010 I don't know that we can count all of the Way of Kings 10s more than once. After all, if I'm right, There are ten orders of Radiants because there's ten Essences (and the same might be true of the Heralds) , ten devotaries because there are ten orders of Radiants, etc. Admittedly, though ten heartbeats is its own thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcorePooka Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Brandon did say at the Chicago signing that 10 is a holy number on Roshar. He also said palindromes are holy too. Look for them in the book as well. Also, go listen to the Q&A here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew the Great Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 I never questioned whether palindromes were considered holy. I was just saying that it seems likely that the ardents changed all of the names of people who were supposed to be holy so that they'd be palindromes. In the same way, I know that ten is a holy number as well, but I don't know if it's holy because there are ten heralds and ten orders of radiants, etc (the ardents again) or if there are ten orders of radiants and ten heralds because ten is a holy number. I'd be more inclined to believe the first, myself. Note: If this is addressed in the Q & A link, I apologize for bringing it up. I'm leaving and don't have time to listen to it right now. I'll catch it later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcorePooka Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 I never questioned whether palindromes were considered holy. I was just saying that it seems likely that the ardents changed all of the names of people who were supposed to be holy so that they'd be palindromes. Well, Brandon's discussion of it was that certain things(gods, moons, etc.) were all palindromes but regular people would try and name their children things that are *very* close to palindromes... without actually being one so as not to rise above themselves. For example, Shallan is almost a palindrome, only one letter off('sh' is a single letter in their language). In the same way, I know that ten is a holy number as well, but I don't know if it's holy because there are ten heralds and ten orders of radiants, etc (the ardents again) or if there are ten orders of radiants and ten heralds because ten is a holy number. I'd be more inclined to believe the first, myself. I'm betting on the first myself... but I'm also guessing this is a case of RAFO to get it confirmed... or someone ask Brandon at one of the Q&As. Note: If this is addressed in the Q & A link, I apologize for bringing it up. I'm leaving and don't have time to listen to it right now. I'll catch it later. Some of it is, but some is also strictly guessing on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Stormblessed Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 10 = Almighty 16 = Preservation 5 = Endowment My guesses at the moment for numbers tied to shards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 What connection does Endowment have to 5? I'd be more inclined to say 3 or 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Stormblessed Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 What connection does Endowment have to 5? I'd be more inclined to say 3 or 4. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the return come back at the Fifth Heightening? And aren't the returned splinters of Endowment, making it logical that Endowment is tied to the number 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munin Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 What connection does Endowment have to 5? I'd be more inclined to say 3 or 4. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the return come back at the Fifth Heightening? And aren't the returned splinters of Endowment, making it logical that Endowment is tied to the number 5. On the other hand, there's 10 heightenings and 4 types of Biochromatic entities, so I don't think Endowment is too attached to any number yet, from what we've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Stormblessed Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 On the other hand, there's 10 heightenings and 4 types of Biochromatic entities, so I don't think Endowment is too attached to any number yet, from what we've seen. I saw that and i was like, hmmm, the Almighty is likely to be 10, so that rules out that number, and I thought considering the strength of the evidence, 5 would be the most relevant number. (Biochrome is a science where not much is known, so something definite and unchanging like the heightening that Returned come back at was a good choice). It is possible for there to be more than 10 heightenings, and 4 biochromatic entities. Unlikely, but as we've seen with Allomancy, people generally underestimate a magic system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munin Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Do we even know that the shards HAVE numbers? As far as I'm aware, none of them have ever been referenced by a number, unless you count the seventeenth, which isn't truly a shard from what we've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Do we even know that the shards HAVE numbers? As far as I'm aware, none of them have ever been referenced by a number, unless you count the seventeenth, which isn't truly a shard from what we've seen. I like to think so. It's an interesting thing to speculate on. On the other hand, there's 10 heightenings and 4 types of Biochromatic entities, so I don't think Endowment is too attached to any number yet, from what we've seen. I saw that and i was like, hmmm, the Almighty is likely to be 10, so that rules out that number, and I thought considering the strength of the evidence, 5 would be the most relevant number. (Biochrome is a science where not much is known, so something definite and unchanging like the heightening that Returned come back at was a good choice). It is possible for there to be more than 10 heightenings, and 4 biochromatic entities. Unlikely, but as we've seen with Allomancy, people generally underestimate a magic system. Another constant in Awakening would be the number of focuses, Breath, Color and Command, so that would be three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Stormblessed Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Do we even know that the shards HAVE numbers? As far as I'm aware, none of them have ever been referenced by a number, unless you count the seventeenth, which isn't truly a shard from what we've seen. Brandon has pretty much said that Preservations number is 16. It was how he tried to send his message to the people about who he is etc. Don't forget the five scholars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Do we even know that the shards HAVE numbers? As far as I'm aware, none of them have ever been referenced by a number, unless you count the seventeenth, which isn't truly a shard from what we've seen. Brandon has pretty much said that Preservations number is 16. It was how he tried to send his message to the people about who he is etc. Well, it says in the HoA epigraphs that sixteen has influence beyond what Preservation used it for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Take it from a math major: if there was any evidence for intrinsic "ordering" of specific Shards (say, for example, that Endowment needs for some reason be #12 or whatever), I have not seen it all. I think these numbers (like the significance of ten and sixteen) speak to something intrinsic to the cosmology. The Shards aren't attached to specific numbers like you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Stormblessed Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Ah well , it would have been cool though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Do we even know that the shards HAVE numbers? As far as I'm aware, none of them have ever been referenced by a number, unless you count the seventeenth, which isn't truly a shard from what we've seen. Brandon has pretty much said that Preservations number is 16. It was how he tried to send his message to the people about who he is etc. Well, it says in the HoA epigraphs that sixteen has influence beyond what Preservation used it for. And even if that wasn't in the epigraphs, the confirmation that there are 16 shards should really make you think that perhaps there was a deeper reason that preservation chose to use that number- like maybe it shows up in other things than the obvious hints he was giving, so the evidence might stack up even more strongly for a keen observer. It could just be that 16 (and therefore perhaps combinations of 2 * 8 and or 4 * 4) emerges naturally out of some of the properties of the unified magical theory of the Cosmere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralis00 Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 It could just be that 16 (and therefore perhaps combinations of 2 * 8 and or 4 * 4) emerges naturally out of some of the properties of the unified magical theory of the Cosmere. we should look for how number 16 influences the Cosmere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew the Great Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Because that's definitely not a really broad topic.... in all seriousness, we really don't know enough about the cosmere to say how the number 16 influences it. We have only a few links that we know of (ie 16 Shards), but I don't think that we can get much farther based on numbers alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Because that's definitely not a really broad topic.... in all seriousness, we really don't know enough about the cosmere to say how the number 16 influences it. We have only a few links that we know of (ie 16 Shards), but I don't think that we can get much farther based on numbers alone. Yeah, I think just scouting for numbers is a bit useless until we can see some deeper significance in why 16 and 10 have recurred on Scadrial and Roshar. It might have some relevance in later books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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