[OB] Maybe the Knights Radiant Did Not Break Their Oaths

[axehoundlover]

So just a crazy theory here. From Oathbringer we know that the Parsh were attempting to get to Feverstone Keep right before the Recreance, which is where many of the KR left their blade and plate. I think that the Parsh could have been trying to reach Honor's perpendicularity to complete the shattering that had started earlier and then they succeded. When honor was shattered that killed any spen who were currently in a nahel bond. The KR were then left with dead spren screaming at them and immediately left their blade and plate behind. The felt they had broken some sort of oath because they allowed Honor's shattering. But they did not break their nahel bond oaths. With regard to the skybreakers, it has been said that they maintained their oaths. I think it is possible however that the skybrakers who were KR at the time still abandoned their blades and plate but continued their culture and attempted to recruit new spren/acolytes with the guidance of Nale. Finally with regard to the spen who believe that the KR had broken their oaths, they would have only seen spren deaths from broken oaths prior so it is natural to assume that the spren that died were due to broken oaths. Also it is unlikely that any higher spren was present as the stay mainly in shadesmar unless part of a bond, in which case they would have died. I think this may be true as the "secret" behind the recreance seems rather underwhelming and already know among the KR and the shattering o Honor has already been linked to the recreance. So I think it is possible that instead of breaking the nahel bonds, those bonds were instead broken by Honor's shattering.

[RShara she/her]

Honor was still alive at the time of the Recreance.  That's how he was able to create the memory and instruct the Stormfather to show it to someone.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76-shadows-of-self-chicago-signing/#e6174

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Questioner

Was Honor Shattered before or after the Recreance?

Brandon Sanderson

I believe after. I'm pretty sure. I mean, he has memories of the Recreance.

 

[Wandering Investor]

The Radiant gem also mentions that he didn't know why the enemy pushed so hard there. If Honor's perpendicularity was there, that would have been an obvious reason. 

Also, Honor was alive during the recreance.

Additionally, the memory Dalinar experiences show the knight's landing, armor stops glowing and then falls off. Seems intentional and caused by the radiants, not another force.

[Govir]

2 minutes ago, RShara said:

Honor was still alive at the time of the Recreance

That's a really good point. Based on information in OB, I thought Honor was dead prior to the Recurrence, and him being dead actually was part of what lead to it. That is to say, The KR learned that they were the Voidbringers all along, that the surges could destroy worlds (and had), and with Honor gone, there was no check on their power.

Hmm, my understanding of the timeline is all whack now. I'm trying to piece it together, but it's just not clicking.

[Ailvara]

So, since Honor's death didn't cause the Recreance, maybe it was the other way round? Such a huge blow against his Intent might have weakened him in a way?

[Mulk he/him]

9 minutes ago, Ailvara said:

So, since Honor's death didn't cause the Recreance, maybe it was the other way round? Such a huge blow against his Intent might have weakened him in a way?

Stormfather said something to the effect that when the KR found out the truth, Honor was raving instead of supporting, told them they would destroy the world.  Based on that I think Honor was already dying, just not there yet.  The Recreance probably didn't help, but I don't think a lack of it would have stopped him dying.

[RShara she/her]

Honor was going mad, raving to the Radiants that they would destroy the world.  So he was definitely still alive, but dying.

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But in the days leading to the Recreance, Honor was dying. When that generation of knights learned the truth, Honor did not support them. He raved, speaking of the Dawnshards, ancient weapons used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls. Honor … promised that Surgebinders would do the same to Roshar.

 

I believe the phrase you're thinking of "With Honor gone, t here is no check on their power" (I can't actually find it in the books, for some reason) was Nale referring to his killing of budding Radiants, long after the Recreance.  He also says this:

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Now that Honor is dead, other Radiants might upset the balance of the Oathpact. Might undermine certain … measures we took, and give an opening to the enemy.”

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by RShara

[+robardin he/him]

The Radiants definitely "killed" their spren, by summoning and locking them in the form of Shardblades in so doing, which is why they can be wielded by anybody.

 

We know that abandoning their oaths would do that. We know that the Stormfather knows that, and assumes that that's what the Radiants did. And we know the Radiants definitely consciously and actively summoned and then abandoned their Shards, based on Honor's vision of the event, unless even Honor is an unreliable source due to madness on the brink of death.

I suppose there is the possibility that there is another way to "kill" the spren that doesn't involve forswearing the Ideals, but there's no reason to think otherwise.

 

[RShara she/her]

6 hours ago, Govir said:

 

Hmm, my understanding of the timeline is all whack now. I'm trying to piece it together, but it's just not clicking.

There's a couple threads on the Recreance timeline floating around.