Therory jasnah falls in love with kaladin

[loke13]

Jasnah is lighteyed royalty, while Kaladin is a darkeyed former slave.  That's a lot of complications for a society that has a very rigid structure.  Even if she does fall for him (which I think is unlikely), I doubt it would go anywhere.

When facing extinction social classes quickly become irrelevant.

[shinintendo]

Some people WHINED that they HATE love triangles now all the Kaladin-Jasnah-Shallan to appear if this ship set sail...just no.

I don't think she'll start something with someone who's younger than her brother, she's strong scholarly woman with high self esteem.

Maybe some other strong male like Teft, Sigzil or Skar can be suitable partner instead of Kaladin.

[Aleksiel]

Jsnah and Sigzil would make a nice match. But I still Jasadin because reasons   

 

Jasnah is beautiful, classy and brilliant. It would be impossible to not notice her. But I think she'll find Kaladin outrageously rude (she thought this about Sabarial and let's face it - Kal ain't the respectful type when it comes to lighteyes). I don't think age difference will be the problem here. Jasnah won't remind Kal of his mother the way Shallan did with her smartass comments, but she'd certainly earn his respect at some point.

 

I just like the pairing, but I won't write an essay on it. Jasadin could work and it might as well not. RAFO 

[loke13]

Jasnah needs no man. I'm actually rooting for her to be a character that doesn't end up in a romantic entanglement.

That or she becomes immortal like Hoid and they have wacky Cosmere adventures where she continually challenges his notion of life.

YES TO JASNOID

I was actually thinking about this earlier since Jasnah and Hoid will be teaming up for a bit. Jasnah's ability to Elsecall into the Cognitive realm could theoretically be the foundation for Worldhopping.

 

I'm kinda hoping for some Jasnah POV in the 3rd book considering the lack of them in WoR I would love to see Hoid getting on her nerves for a bit.

[Luke.spence]

I'm in favor of The Lopnah. All other joinings are inferior. 

[Bugman]

After reading the Epilogue to WoR, the only "ship" I have place for in my heart is Jasnoid.

[Kessler]

I'm intrigued by the prospect of Jasnah and Kaladin's possible romance, simply because I don't know how it would play out with Jasnah being Jasnah. 

 

But I'm wondering if Taln is more likely. Jasnah is brilliant and utterly focused on saving humanity. She wouldn't bother with romance when the world is ending and she has a shot at saving it. But if she were to find Taln, a herald with shattered mind, she'll try to help him so he'd be able to provide information on the Desolations. So as she digs into who Taln it, she might find some affection for him. 

[digitalbusker]

If there's anybody out there who's opposed Shalladin on the grounds that it's too obvious and simultaneously supported Jasnobody-at-all... I would encourage them to examine those positions side-by-side.

 

You want non-obvious romantic subplots? Give the mature, driven, powerful woman who's apparently content to remain single indefinitely a romantic subplot (bonus points if it's unconventional) and leave one or more of the twenty-something protagonists single.

[Shaggai]

The amount of you saying no makes it all the more probable.

Brandon is so unpredictable that we have to predict the unpredictable, like this! Unless, of course, he is using reverse psychology and is thus NOT adding something like this.

Unless he is using reverse-reverse psychology and thus will add something like this because we all expect him not to because we expect him to use reverse psychology.

And so on.

 

When you follow the most logical line of reasoning, the most likely ships for Kaladin are Axies and the Spanish Inquisition.

[Kogiopsis]

If there's anybody out there who's opposed Shalladin on the grounds that it's too obvious and simultaneously supported Jasnobody-at-all... I would encourage them to examine those positions side-by-side.

 

You want non-obvious romantic subplots? Give the mature, driven, powerful woman who's apparently content to remain single indefinitely a romantic subplot (bonus points if it's unconventional) and leave one or more of the twenty-something protagonists single.

 

Literally a trope.  Bzzt, try again.  Additionally:

Having a canon asexual character is basically unheard of, so I think that wins re: unpredictability and originality.

 

I do agree about leaving one of the 20-somethings single, though, especially if it's single by choice and not the result of some kind of terrible romantic drama/falling out.

[maxal]

I do not like Kaladin and Jasnah. In fact, I think I prefer, much prefer Shalladin to Jasnadin.

 

First of all, the age difference. I know, in real life, couple with such an age difference happen and work. However, I just do not see it this way with these two. Jasnah is obviously at a very different place in her life than Kaladin. She has lived the privileged life of an unmarried scholar and I certainly do not see her finding much in common with a 20 years old farmboy. Even if that farmboy has been trained to be a surgeon, even if that farmboy is smart, he is not up to Jasnah level. Besides, he is younger than her brother, than her cousin Adolin whom she refers to as "a boy".

 

Second of all, intellect level. Kaladin is not a scholar despite what many people think. Just because he was trained to think slightly outside the box does not make him a world renown researcher nor do I think he has the potential to be one. From a young age, Kaladin was attracted to spears, fights and wars. He was aching to join the war. He only decided against it because of his father, but the second his brother was enrolled, he drops it all to join. Sure he wanted to protect his brother, but Tien was already doomed. All he did was deprived his family of both of their children. Sure he had good reasons, but had he not wanted so badly to be a warrior, would he have joined this willingly? Even to try to protect Tien? I am not so sure. Deep down, he wanted to be a spearman, not a surgeon, not a scholar: a soldier. He even reflects how he did not ask Dalinar to join the surgeons after he was freed. He wanted to remain a soldier. Somehow, I do not see Jasnah falling for a soldier. In fact, I am pretty sure she does not enjoy the art of war.

 

Thirdly, class difference. The only reason Kal was able to appreciate Shallan and to a lesser level Adolin was because they are not classical lighteyes. Shallan is very different than your day-to-day lighteyed woman. She is clever, she has a sharp tongue and she uses it, much unlike most other women. She has lived a life of privileged (well at least when compared to Kal), however it was tainted by her mother's death, her father's madness and her family poverty (by lighteyes standard). She was not raised as the typical lighteyed woman and she reflects on that on several occasions. On the other hand, Jasnah is a very very classical lighteyed woman. She is high, cold, distant and she probably does not look twice on simple darkeyes. She is overbearing too and demanding, all things Kal does not seem to appreciate, all things Kal reproaches to other lighteyes.

 

Overall, I do not see any romance between these two.

 

I would love to see Kal have a love interest, but I must admit, I am not so found of the current alternatives, except perhaps Tarah, but we know so little about her, it is hard to decide.

[Patrick Star]

I'm willing to bet that Kaladin is going to end up with one of Lopen's cousins.

 

"Hey Gancho, now that you're glowing, you need a girlfriend.  I've got a few cousins for that.  I'll hook you up with them.  You can go out to dinner, go flying, walk around all glowy, or glow and fly.  Just make sure to dress to impress.  Here's my hat-making cousin's business card.  My cousins love hats."

[Arondell]

On the other hand, Jasnah is a very very classical lighteyed woman. She is high, cold, distant and she probably does not look twice on simple darkeyes. She is overbearing too and demanding, all things Kal does not seem to appreciate, all things Kal reproaches to other lighteyes.

 

 

While she is on occasion overbearing and demanding I don't agree that she is a classical lighteyed woman.   She is in fact something of a rebel in Alethi society.  Given her open and very public rejection of the devotaries and her willingness to portray her soulcasting ability as coming from a fabrial(Considered a holy object.) she could arguably be considered something of a renegade.  She is a tesseract that refused to be placed into a round hole.

[maxal]

While she is on occasion overbearing and demanding I don't agree that she is a classical lighteyed woman.   She is in fact something of a rebel in Alethi society.  Given her open and very public rejection of the devotaries and her willingness to portray her soulcasting ability as coming from a fabrial(Considered a holy object.) she could arguably be considered something of a renegade.  She is a tesseract that refused to be placed into a round hole.

 

I meant classical with her behavior. True, she has refused to marry and she is an atheism, but she still remains a lighteyes woman of high rank. She still behaves like one. How can Kaladin fall for a cold, calculating and probably dismissive woman? He has had huge issues with Adolin being dismissive, but Adolin is, by far, the most open character we have met so far (even Dalinar remarks Adolin is too friendly with his soldiers). How could he deal with Jasnah?

 

I definitely do not sail this ship.

[Pathfinder]

I don't see it myself from a literary perspective. I think Jasnah is a wonderful character as a stand alone and has developed far better throughout the books through friendships and her protege than through a romantic interest. I do not feel a romantic relationship would add anything to her character and if anything would end up taking away. I do not think she needs to have her "ice heart" melted at all. In fact I would say her heart isn't frozen to begin with. I do agree she was hurt and lost someone she was emotionally attached to, but I see Jasnah's personality as one more of reason and knowledge than emotional, and I see nothing wrong with that. I think Sanderson tries to portray characters of numerous backgrounds and liens. I feel that Jasnah's purpose is to show us that a strong solitary woman with familial connections and friendships can not only exist but lead a good and fulfilling life. Setting her up in a relationship, regardless the connotation or structure defeats that. 

[Aleksiel]

It's not like Jasnah has any friends except (arguably) Shallan. She's not even close to her own family - only her mother mourned her. We don't know what's her relationship with Ivory. Overall, Jasnah could really use some relationships in her story arc.

 

Not necessarily romantic, but definitely relationships with people on equal grounds. I don't want her character to change and become a people's person, but to open and connect with her family and has a few close friendships. 

 

I wonder if Jasnah will start to like Hoid or stab him with her Blade, but it'll be fun to read either way. I ship Jasadin, but frankly I don't see potential for even a friendship there, neither will have the time or the interest in the other person any time soon.

[maxal]

It's not like Jasnah has any friends except (arguably) Shallan. She's not even close to her own family - only her mother mourned her. We don't know what's her relationship with Ivory. Overall, Jasnah could really use some relationships in her story arc.

 

Not necessarily romantic, but definitely relationships with people on equal grounds. I don't want her character to change and become a people's person, but to open and connect with her family and has a few close friendships. 

 

I wonder if Jasnah will start to like Hoid or stab him with her Blade, but it'll be fun to read either way. I ship Jasadin, but frankly I don't see potential for even a friendship there, neither will have the time or the interest in the other person any time soon.

 

Whereas we can probably assume Jasnah does not have any friends, we cannot suppose she does not have any relationship with her family.

 

We know:

 

1) I think we have a WOB stating Jasnah is not particularly close with her brother. Basically, they stay out of each others way.

 

2) We know she went from a happy curious child to a cold and empathy less teenager. At around the same time, she shuts her mother out. This leaves me wondering if Navani is not somewhat responsible for the event that "broke" Jasnah. The event may have been triggered by some actions (or non-action) from Navani although it seems obvious Navani does not realize this. It leads to believe Navani had any part to play in this event, it was not voluntary.

 

3) She appeared sad her father was killed. We can therefore assumed she loved him. However, Galivar's words to Jasnah were harsh. I think we have another WOB stating Galivar was an overbearing father. I would not be surprised if Jasnah ends up not missing Galivar much more than Navani appears to.

 

4) Then comes Dalinar. From WoK, we have this nice conversation, via spanreed, between Jasnah and Dalinar. She berates her uncle for being overprotective with her and still treating her as a child. It was cute and it shows some care between the two of them, I think. Also, in WoR, when she tries to convince Shallan Adolin is a good match, she mentions how he has a good heart, as good as Dalinar who was, from Jasnah perspective, the "best man she knows". We get she cares about her uncle, she admires him and she may have a nice relationship with him. This relationship perhaps extends to her young cousin as she seems to think well of him.

 

Bottom line is I believe some event may have triggered Jasnah going cold on Navani. I do hope this will be settled in the near future and that mother and daughter will manage to have a nice relationship. Whereas I also believe she may not have been particularly close to her own father and brother, she seems to have developed a better relationship with her uncle and possibly her younger cousins.

[11thorderknight]

That's a good point - we know there's got to be something in Jasnah's past that wasn't sunshine and roses. Her interaction with Gavilar the night of his death doesn't seem pathologic though, at least not on Gavilar's part. She makes a somewhat rude and uncalled-for remark about the party and the guests, and Gavilar gently tells her to get off her high horse. She acknowledges the rebuke. That's it. And she obviously is pretty broken up by his death, and is motivated to protect her family.

[High prince of geeks]

Personally I don't ship this pairing but I think that if it is going to happen it will be one sided one Kaladin's side.

[Arondell]

I meant classical with her behavior. True, she has refused to marry and she is an atheism, but she still remains a lighteyes woman of high rank. She still behaves like one. How can Kaladin fall for a cold, calculating and probably dismissive woman? He has had huge issues with Adolin being dismissive, but Adolin is, by far, the most open character we have met so far (even Dalinar remarks Adolin is too friendly with his soldiers). How could he deal with Jasnah?

 

I definitely do not sail this ship.

 

Actually while she is often calculating and standoffish she is not particularly dismissive of people in general.  In fact she is unusually courteous to people unless she feels she has reason to behave otherwise.(e.g. Kabsal)  For example she treats Taravangian with courtesy and respect and insists Shallan also do so.  Despite the fact that most other lighteyes view him as a mentally slow and weak king.  I would also mention her view of the ships crew at the beginning of Words of Radiance.

 

 

“From what I have observed,” Jasnah said, “these sailors are men who have found a purpose in life and now take simple pleasure in it.” Jasnah looked at the next drawing. “Many people make far less out of life. Captain Tozbek runs a good crew. You were wise in bringing him to my attention.”

 

A number of other comments she makes when discussing the spren and radiants causes me to suspect that she more then most would realize that the worth of a person would not depend on birth or inherited social status but on personal character.  For that matter almost every time someone else comments about Jasnah the fact that she behaves differently from others comes up in one form or another.

 

 

Liss hesitated at the door before leaving. “Do you know why I like you, Brightness?”

   "I suspect that it has something to do with my pockets and their proverbial depth.”

   Liss smiled. “There’s that, ain’t going to deny it, but you’re also different from other lighteyes. When others hire me, they turn up their noses at the entire process. They’re all too eager to use my services, but sneer and wring their hands, as if they hate being forced to do something utterly distasteful.”

   “Assassination is distasteful, Liss. So is cleaning out chamber pots. I can respect the one employed for such jobs without admiring the job itself.”

 

I'm not actually trying express a preference for a relationship between Kaladin and Jasnah.  I'm just thinking your view of Jasnah as dismissive of those beneath her as a bit off base.  Yes she can be calculating.  She also cultivates an air of authority.  On the other hand she still recognizes the value of those of lower social status then herself.  Nor does she really behave like a "classical" lighteyed lady.

[Aleksiel]

Whereas we can probably assume Jasnah does not have any friends, we cannot suppose she does not have any relationship with her family.

....

 

I said she wasn't close to her family, not that they have no relationship, which is different.

 

As for Dalinar and Jasnah - I was very disappointed he didn't mourn her death, not even when comforting Navani. Overall, only her mother missed her. I can understand Adolin and Ren probably barely knew her and we don't have Elhokar's PoV, but Dalinar didn't seem touched by the loss of his only niece. He defended Elhokar, because 'he's all Dalinar has left of Gavilar' and never did Dalinar think Jasnah was also part of his brother's legacy. I expected at least some emotion, even if it was 'no time to mourn her now', but he never thought even that.

[maxal]

That's a good point - we know there's got to be something in Jasnah's past that wasn't sunshine and roses. Her interaction with Gavilar the night of his death doesn't seem pathologic though, at least not on Gavilar's part. She makes a somewhat rude and uncalled-for remark about the party and the guests, and Gavilar gently tells her to get off her high horse. She acknowledges the rebuke. That's it. And she obviously is pretty broken up by his death, and is motivated to protect her family.

 

I don't know. This whole passage left me with some unease. It was not what I would have expected from Galivar. He has been presented to us as such as great man, I expected him to behave like one. To tell your daughter to get down her high horses or to tell her how insufferable it must for her to mingle among the lesser minds they all are was quite rude. I do not have my book close to me right now, so I cannot fish out the quote, but it ran along those lines. Personally, I did not expect such a rebuke from Galivar the "greatest man on Roshar". Albeit, most of what we know of Galivar comes from Dalinar's POV and he seemed to worship his brother greatly.

 

Sincerely, since reading WoR, I have been changed my opinion of Galivar. I now see him as an authoritative hard unloving man whose exploit had been to win a gruesome war with the help of his brother. He then turned to the Ways of Kings, but unlike Dalinar, it didn't turn him into a better person. He plotted the obscure return of a Desolation and paid with his life. He was seriously misguided there, I believe. However, looking at how both Elhokar and Jasnah turned out, I am tempted to believe he was not a very good father, unlike Dalinar.

 

 

...

 

I guess you are right. I have forgotten about those passages. It's just Jasnah seems so cold and distant towards her entourage I had a hard time figuring her as anything else. I guess we have yet to see her interact with darkeyes soldiers.

 

 

I said she wasn't close to her family, not that they have no relationship, which is different.

 

As for Dalinar and Jasnah - I was very disappointed he didn't mourn her death, not even when comforting Navani. Overall, only her mother missed her. I can understand Adolin and Ren probably barely knew her and we don't have Elhokar's PoV, but Dalinar didn't seem touched by the loss of his only niece. He defended Elhokar, because 'he's all Dalinar has left of Gavilar' and never did Dalinar think Jasnah was also part of his brother's legacy. I expected at least some emotion, even if it was 'no time to mourn her now', but he never thought even that.

 

I misunderstood you then. I thought you meant she had not relationship with anyone including her family.

 

I agree about the absence of grief from Dalinar. That was strange. In WoK, I really got the impression they were close. It could be Brandon chose not to present us with Dalinar's thoughts on the matter. It is true Dalinar's obsession over Elhokar seems unjust when you think of Jasnah. Adolin, however, has expressed some concern over Jasnah on a few occasions. I think there is a passage where he worries about Jasnah's ship being delayed and he hopes she is alright. I think it is safe to assume the cousins knew each other at least well enough for Jasnah to dress a pretty accurate portrait of her young cousin to Shallan. We don't know about Renarin.

[RustAndRuin]

On 6/16/2014 at 6:37 PM, Patrick Star said:

I'm willing to bet that Kaladin is going to end up with one of Lopen's cousins.

 

"Hey Gancho, now that you're glowing, you need a girlfriend.  I've got a few cousins for that.  I'll hook you up with them.  You can go out to dinner, go flying, walk around all glowy, or glow and fly.  Just make sure to dress to impress.  Here's my hat-making cousin's business card.  My cousins love hats."

But then I want Lopen to try and ship Jasnah with his cousins. 

 

As put by my friend: And she'll be like... "No."

Lopen: So you dont walk that pond? *proceeds to sets her up with some chick*

Jasnah: *facepalm*

Lopen: NO? Okay... *proceeds to set her up with a chicken from the family farm*

Jasnah: *proceeds to get set up by everything and everyone till she finally agrees to do a second date with the family second foal's cousin twice removed because enough is enough.....and the foal apparently was one of Hoid's disguises and the ride happily off into the sunset* 
 

 

I just liked the idea of Jasnah getting set up with the family chicken because Lopen figured if she didn't swing woman or man, she might as well swing bird.  

[Nightblade]

On 2/26/2014 at 9:51 PM, ddleg said:

The title says it all.... Discuss

Thank you for this I was just discussing this with my brother and I'm so happy someone else brought this up!

[Humpty]

On 2/27/2014 at 0:48 AM, IceBaka said:

Jasnah is lighteyed royalty, while Kaladin is a darkeyed former slave.  That's a lot of complications for a society that has a very rigid structure.  Even if she does fall for him (which I think is unlikely), I doubt it would go anywhere.

Those rigid structures your talking about are going out the window as we speak with the return of the knights radiant. Also consider that a lot of the Hearalds are dark eyed this statement doesn't really hold water. I think it would be a good match myself.. remember every ice cube eventually melts under the right conditions. Also what does age have to do with anything? maybe its just wishful thinking on my part..

Them getting togather probably wont happen would be cool if it did though.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Humpty