[OB] Unity

[+Child of Hodor]

On 11/23/2017 at 7:20 AM, Awesomness said:

Speculation time: I think this isn't so much about the shards but the oaths.

Nin said the Fifth Skybraker Oath is "I am Law".

Danilar´s words: "I am Unity". (He skipped 2 oaths?!)

I wonder if Kal and Shallan are heading there: "I am Honor" - "I am Truth" ?? Cant´t guess about Jasnah, Veli and Renarin.

Maybe ten 5th grade Radiants become ... something.. a Shard? a Little Adonalsium? 

Do we know that all the orders have the same number of Oaths?

[echaozh he/him]

Unity may also be Honor - something, say pride. Honor specifically splintered himself to leave the Unity intent, or he specifically splintered his Unity intent into Stormfather. Either way, Dalinar is now touching the partial intent.

In the end of the first half of the Stormlight Archives, Dalinar may have to Ascend to rebalance the power structure of the Rosharan system, though I am not really sure why T is against it. Dalinar will never let Kharbranth burn in Odium's hands, will he? Though if Dalinar Ascends, Navani will be left in a very awkward position. Does she count as a widow now? She definitely cannot Ascend to become Cultivation right?

[Thude]

On 11/23/2017 at 0:47 AM, teknopathetic said:

Honour + Dominion + Devotion = Unity?

This is possible if the humans were initially from sel.

[Fatikis he/him]

I'm wondering if we are only getting part of the picture.  What if once a shard is shattered the intent is lost?  A reforged shard then taking an intent from the new individual to ascend.  Dalinar's is obsessed with uniting everyone.  What if the intent of the shard has now changed?  Instead of Honor we are now seeing a reforging into Unity which is Dalinar's primary drive.

When Adonalsium shattered 16 shards were left.  These shards can't account for all motivations or perception of beings.  They would each just be a fragment of the driving forces behind Adonalsium.  Small fragments of Adonalsiums intent.  Now that the power is raw.  Reforging it could alter the power to the interpretation of the reforger.  

And clearly "Unite them." means more than just the surface value.  I believe unite them refers to uniting The Radiants, uniting mankind on Roshar, uniting human and Parshmen, and uniting the shards of Adonalsiums as well.  I am confident by the end of the Stormlight Archives that Dalinar will hold Odium and "Honor" This may actually create a being that is far more terrifying than Odium, but at the same time temporarily contain him until the intents of the shards begin to take over.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Fatikis

[Yezrien]

I think this is basically the right idea. My theory is that, once a shard is splintered, its individual fragments can be affected by cognitive forces, slightly shifting the overall intent of the shard. Once Dalinar reassembles what’s left of Honor, he’ll become Unity.

[ZenBossanova]

Considering that Odium's response to the Unity line is "We killed you", I think he temporarily mistook him for Adonalsium. 

[Llarimar he/him]

49 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

Considering that Odium's response to the Unity line is "We killed you", I think he temporarily mistook him for Adonalsium. 

Oh, that makes sense - I thought that Odium was talking about killing Honor.  It confused me, because I thought that Odium killed Honor alone, and this line made me suddenly wonder if Cultivation was helping him.  But it makes sense if he was talking about Adonalsium.  This line might suggest that Dalinar is going to eventually unite all of the shards - not just the ones residing on Roshar, to restore Adonalsium.  Odium probably could see in that moment that Dalinar is already beginning down that path.  

Edited December 13, 2017 by Llarimar

[Fatikis he/him]

On 12/13/2017 at 0:59 AM, ZenBossanova said:

Considering that Odium's response to the Unity line is "We killed you", I think he temporarily mistook him for Adonalsium. 

I hadn't even considered that.  It actually makes far more sense.  I can't wait to see why Adonalsium was shattered.  A lot of good people participated in the shattering.  I've been trying to track down what Adonalsium means.  As to the other gods I assumed it was not just his name.

So far I'm confident that this is relevant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adon

Sium is a root that can mean to dream or slumber.  This may be relevant.
Alsium was an ancient city off the cost of Etruria.  I do not believe this to be relevant.
Al is interesting, but probably not related.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_(folklore)

Some language buffs might be able to track this down better than me.

[Master_Moridin he/him]

5 hours ago, Fatikis said:

I hadn't even considered that.  It actually makes far more sense.  I can't wait to see why Adonalsium was shattered.  A lot of good people participated in the shattering.  I've been trying to track down what Adonalsium means.  As to the other gods I assumed it was not just his name.

So far I'm confident that this is relevant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adon

Sium is a root that can mean to dream or slumber.  This may be relevant.
Alsium was an ancient city off the cost of Etruria.  I do not believe this to be relevant.
Al is interesting, but probably not related.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_(folklore)

Some language buffs might be able to track this down better than me.

 

Quote

grampipon

Is Adonalsium taken from the Hebrew words for God, Adonai?

Brandon Sanderson

It is.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/183-stormlight-three-update-6/#e3914

 

[Tenziden he/him]

On 12/3/2017 at 9:28 PM, Thude said:

This is possible if the humans were initially from sel.

The book says that the humans destroyed their own world and then came to Roshar, and we know Sel is perfectly viable. There are three Rocky.  planets in the Rosharan system; Ashyn, Roshar, and Braize. Odium is on Braize, which means they most likely came from Ashyn, which they now refer to as the Tranquiline Halls. I'm pretty sure there's a WoB out there somewhere confirming that Ashyn is essentially Mustafar now but it makes the most sense in my eyes. 

Edited December 17, 2017 by Tenziden

[blueshard]

First time that I can ever post a relevant WoB: 

Quote

Oathbringer Glasgow signing (Dec. 2, 2017)

Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

In that one long rejection of Odium, how many Oaths did Dalinar swear before merging the Realms? And is "I am Unity" the fifth.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

No, that is not an Oath. He swore one ideal in that experience.

Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

Okay. How many Oaths is he on?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

The number you think. So, he should have just finished three, right? Or maybe four. I'll have to go look. It's the number that you think it is. I'm not being sneaky on you. There's nothing sneaky there. He doesn't get armor, so I can't remember where he is... He should be at three. "Life before death." "I will unite instead of divide." "I will stand up each time I fall." Yeah, so he's done three.

 

[Awesomness]

1 hour ago, blueshard said:

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

The number you think. So, he should have just finished three, right? Or maybe four. I'll have to go look. It's the number that you think it is. I'm not being sneaky on you. There's nothing sneaky there. He doesn't get armor, so I can't remember where he is... He should be at three. "Life before death." "I will unite instead of divide." "I will stand up each time I fall." Yeah, so he's done three.

Isn´t it weird that he doesn't remember???

[WardenGiggles]

17 hours ago, Awesomness said:

Isn´t it weird that he doesn't remember???

Honestly, while I do sort of agree, it's really not. Consider how much he has in his head. He also knows where the story is going so he has ideas for what's to come and I'm sure it's easy to lose track of what's been published and what's still conceptual.

What I think is interesting are the answers that are more philosophical where he says that person X from the world would say this is happening, but he (Brandon) is not convinced. I mean, shouldn't Brandon know how it works if anyone does?

[WardenGiggles]

On 11/23/2017 at 8:48 AM, PhineasGage said:

I did wonder if Syl was really an 'honorspren' (there is at least one WoB (http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kw=bonding+honorspren) saying that is what she calls herself but not specifically calling her that himself. On top of that, she regularly calls herself a windspren and when Kaladin corrects her she agrees in odd ways. It just feels.... odd.

So most of the Honor spren were created by Honor. Makes sense. But in OB we learn that Syl was actually created by the Stormfather not Honor. Maybe that makes her something new?

[PhineasGage]

15 hours ago, WardenGiggles said:

So most of the Honor spren were created by Honor. Makes sense. But in OB we learn that Syl was actually created by the Stormfather not Honor. Maybe that makes her something new?

This could work. It might explain why Syl was able to "rebel" in a way that the rest of the Honorspren didn't - she was more individual in some way. 

[Walkerxes]

On 12/19/2017 at 2:54 AM, PhineasGage said:

This could work. It might explain why Syl was able to "rebel" in a way that the rest of the Honorspren didn't - she was more individual in some way. 

I feel that in some way, certain minor spren are almost proto-sentient spren.. or there seems to be a heavy tie-in with minor spren and certain Orders... Windspren and Windrunners, Gloryspren and Bondsmiths, Creationspren and Lightweavers (?).. perhaps lifespren and Edgedancers? (I could see Wendell starting his time in the physical realm appearing much like a lifespren, similar to how Syl first showed as a windspren)... Considering Jasna's tendencies, logicspren perhaps tied to Elsecallers, seeing how Ivory seems very logic-oriented.. and as someone said above, perhaps it's the minor spren that make up the plate... Plate never screams and no one every seems upset about plate, only blades.

[Walkerxes]

PS., Hi, new here (as a member, been lurking for some time).. the theories about Dalinar and Adonalsium.. I hadn't considered it, until finding this thread.. but now, I don't see how it could be anything else! 

[Carla Bridge Four]

23 hours ago, Walkerxes said:

PS., Hi, new here (as a member, been lurking for some time).. the theories about Dalinar and Adonalsium.. I hadn't considered it, until finding this thread.. but now, I don't see how it could be anything else! 

When I lurk through theories here, I want to suscribe to each one I read. At some point, I cannot do it and it's sad

[Walkerxes]

On 2/20/2018 at 9:33 AM, Carla Bridge Four said:

When I lurk through theories here, I want to suscribe to each one I read. At some point, I cannot do it and it's sad

Fair enough, in this thread, however I saw some very good arguments with great backing evidence.. much of which I didn't catch, or at least didn't take me down that path of thought. Great thread all around. Even if I did sort of zombie thread it accidentally.. I didn't check the last post date before replying. Noobie error 

[EvangelionMech he/him]

On 11/23/2017 at 10:42 PM, knightedbishop said:

I think the command Dalinar received, “unite them,” is grander than how Dalinar, or us are perceiving it. 

Dalinar thinks it means unite the people of Roshiar to fight the voidbringers. Valid interpretation, from him viewpoint. It could also mean unite the re-emerging Knights Radiant, which he also seems to take for granted as part of his charge. 

We, with more Cosmeric awareness, speculate the command refers to Honor’s Shard. Also a valid interpretation, from our viewpoint. He’s shown promise here on screen, bonding the Stormfather, summoning Honor’s Perpendicularity to pierce the 3 realms and drive back Odium. 

I think “unite them” originally came from Honor, from the visions the Stormfather delivered. We know Galivar heard that command too. But I think more is happening. Dalinar is having visions, experiencing sensations, that transcend the visions Honor left. I think the bearer of Adonalosium has piggy backed off Honor’s work and is influencing Dalinar to do More- to reunite all the Shards. We know, from Mistborn Secret History, that the death of a Shardbearer is not instant- Fuzz lasted a long while, conscious and able to influence events, even expand Kelsier so he could endure beyond death as a cognitive shadow. Seems Honor continued to be conscious a while after His splintering too. Adonalosium was not a Shard, he was an order of magnitude greater. I can imagine he still retains awareness and is influencing events. Odium’s statement “we killed you,” especially drives me down this line of thinking. There is more happening here than Dalinar becoming a sliver of Honor. He is being prepared for something greater. 

Newbie here.

Fuzz was dying. Ruin was killing him, though not in the manner that Odium kills. I think Khriss even mentioned that she hadn't seen anything like this before.

[ZenBossanova]

Dalinar is certainly getting messages to unite them, from someone other than the Stormfather. Whoever that is from, it is very likely the same as Unity. Honor is dead, so if the Stormfather doesn't know about it, it can't be him either. 

I still stand by Adonalsium. 

[The Wanderer]

On 19/02/2018 at 3:07 PM, Walkerxes said:

I feel that in some way, certain minor spren are almost proto-sentient spren.. or there seems to be a heavy tie-in with minor spren and certain Orders... Windspren and Windrunners, Gloryspren and Bondsmiths, Creationspren and Lightweavers (?).. perhaps lifespren and Edgedancers? (I could see Wendell starting his time in the physical realm appearing much like a lifespren, similar to how Syl first showed as a windspren)... Considering Jasna's tendencies, logicspren perhaps tied to Elsecallers, seeing how Ivory seems very logic-oriented.. and as someone said above, perhaps it's the minor spren that make up the plate... Plate never screams and no one every seems upset about plate, only blades.

I'm pretty sure Lift's spren is a CultivationSpren

 

[+Child of Hodor]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

I'm pretty sure Lift's spren is a CultivationSpren

 

Yeah, Maya (Adolin's dead blade) and Wyndle (Lift's spren) are Cultivationspren

 https://coppermind.net/wiki/Mayalaran

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Wyndle

On 2/19/2018 at 9:07 AM, Walkerxes said:

I feel that in some way, certain minor spren are almost proto-sentient spren.. or there seems to be a heavy tie-in with minor spren and certain Orders... Windspren and Windrunners, Gloryspren and Bondsmiths, Creationspren and Lightweavers (?).. perhaps lifespren and Edgedancers? (I could see Wendell starting his time in the physical realm appearing much like a lifespren, similar to how Syl first showed as a windspren)... Considering Jasna's tendencies, logicspren perhaps tied to Elsecallers, seeing how Ivory seems very logic-oriented.. and as someone said above, perhaps it's the minor spren that make up the plate... Plate never screams and no one every seems upset about plate, only blades.

Perhaps the radiant spren were initially made by Honor and Cultivation modifying these pre-existing lesser spren. They are related in that way.

Pre-shattering most spren on Roshar were lesser spren. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/2/#e141

Edited March 13, 2019 by Child of Hodor

[Scion of the Mists]

3 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

On 2/19/2018 at 10:07 AM, Walkerxes said:

I feel that in some way, certain minor spren are almost proto-sentient spren.. or there seems to be a heavy tie-in with minor spren and certain Orders... Windspren and Windrunners, Gloryspren and Bondsmiths, Creationspren and Lightweavers (?).. perhaps lifespren and Edgedancers? (I could see Wendell starting his time in the physical realm appearing much like a lifespren, similar to how Syl first showed as a windspren)... Considering Jasna's tendencies, logicspren perhaps tied to Elsecallers, seeing how Ivory seems very logic-oriented.. and as someone said above, perhaps it's the minor spren that make up the plate... Plate never screams and no one every seems upset about plate, only blades.

I'm pretty sure Lift's spren is a CultivationSpren

Yes, Lift's spren is a cultivationspren.  However, @Walkerxes was referring to the non-sentient spren associated with each order.  

[Karger he/him]

I personally think his unite them command is his interpretation of the shardic intent he receives from proximity to a fragment of honor.  I am definitely behind Odium thinking that Dalinar was Adonalsium and maybe his interpretation of the command is closer to the intent of Adonalsium himself?