Theory: Shallash was Dalinar's wife

[Talo]

I am in the process of a pre-WoR re-read and had heard the rumors that Shallash is Baxil's mistress so when reading this time through, I kept an eye out in particular for any herald-spotting.

 

I noticed that when Navani mentions Dalinar's wife's name, it comes out as Shshshsh.  This could just be the sound of the wind as Dalinar thinks, or it could be somehow a hint that his wife was Shallash.  Given the lifespan of the heralds, I assume they have become accomplished at faking their own deaths.

 

If Baxil's mistress is Shallash and she is going around and destroying images of herself, then maybe there is some affinity between Heralds and the Nightwatcher and that is why knowledge of her was wiped from Dalinar's memory.

 

This is a bit of a roundabout thought and likely goes beyond what the Nightwatcher is capable of, but maybe Shallash even went to the Nightwatcher and asked for her memory to be removed from Dalinar's mind - which lead to Renarin's blood weakness and Dalinar going west and asking for him to be cured (if that was indeed his boon).

 

It would also lead Adolin and Renarin to have herald-blood, if that ends up having any significance.

 

Just a thought that occurred while I was reading, curious to see if anyone thought the same or similar.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2014 by Talo

[Chlehrma]

Doubt it. Dalinar's wife is dead, Shallash is alive. Basil's mistress chapter.

[Peng the Just]

I'm going to have to agree with chlehrma on this one. It seems unlikely. But welcome to the seventeenth shard, Talo. Hope to hear more from you.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

First of all, welcome to the 17thShard!

 

We're told in Ch 64.

"As always, when the name of his wife was spoken, it came to him as the sound of softly rushing air, then slipped from his mind immediately."

 

So I think it's pretty clear that the "shshshs" is because of the Old Magic that Dalniar sought. There are other moments when it specifically states that Dalinar knows exactly what his Boon and his Curse are, but I don't know if we have exact words which say "the loss of his wife's memory was his curse from the Nightwatcher." I'm intrigued by the idea that it could be his boon...

 

Either way, I don't think it likely that he was married to a Herald. Why would she pose as a "not very clever" brightlady? Plus you have the physical differences between what the Heralds look like and the Alethi... 

 

@Chlehrma we only have speculation that Baxil's mistress is Shallash. Highly likely, but still only theory!

[Moogle]

I think this theory is unlikely, but I like it regardless. A Herald well-accomplished at illusions could easily fake her own death.

 

@Chlehrma we only have speculation that Baxil's mistress is Shallash. Highly likely, but still only theory!

 

How much are you willing to bet that it's false? I have a hard time thinking of any alternatives to it being Shallash. I mean, I don't want to be overconfident, but calling it 'just a theory' is a bit misleading when it's all-but-confirmed.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Moogle

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

I think this theory is unlikely, but I like it regardless. A Herald well-accomplished at illusions could easily fake her own death.

 

 

How much are you willing to bet that it's false? I have a hard time thinking of any alternatives to it being Shallash. I mean, I don't want to be overconfident, but calling it 'just a theory' is a bit misleading when it's all-but-confirmed.

Oh, it probably is correct that it's Shallash. I believe. But until we get full blown confirmation it's still a theory!

[Aleksiel]

It's an interesting theory, but I think it's highly unlikely.

 

Dalinar's wife was blond and non-Alethi and Baxil's mistress is described as:

 

 

She wasn’t Emuli – she didn’t even seem Makabaki, though she had dark skin and long, beautiful black hair. She had eyes like a Shin, but she was tall and lean, like an Alethi.

[Moogle]

It's an interesting theory, but I think it's highly unlikely.

 

Dalinar's wife was blond and non-Alethi and Baxil's mistress is described as:

 

When you're dealing with a Herald who had mastery over illusions, I would be very careful with using their appearance to argue anything.

[Aleksiel]

When you're dealing with a Herald who had mastery over illusions, I would be very careful with using their appearance to argue anything.

I don't think she has any of her powers because she used tools to destroy her statue. If on of her surges is gone, I assume both are.

[Swimmingly]

If she isn't a Herald, she does not have mastery of illusions, so we should take her appearance at face value, so we should assume she's a Herald, so she has mastery of illusions, so we should distrust her appearance, so we should assume she's not a Herald, so she doesn't have mastery of illusions...

I think I made a logic Möbius strip.

[WeiryWriter]

In regards to the hair color, keep in mind Dalinar's wife passed hers on partially to her sons, both of who have blond hairs. 

[AerionBFII]

Nope don't see it

Edited February 21, 2014 by WEZ313

[Leafs]

Has anyone put forward that Dainar's boon was having his wife brought back to life?

[RShara]

FYI, it's Shalash, with one L

[TheKennethHayes]

I'm pretty sure that it can't be because I seem to remember Brandon saying that if the heralds stayed on Roshar for too long that the desolations would return early (correct me if I’m wrong that but I’m pretty sure that’s what he said).

 

So my theory is when they “walked away” from the oathpact they worldhopped to other Cosmere worlds. This could explain how Nalan was able to be in possession of Nightblood to be able to give it to Szeth, and maybe Vasher followed looking for Nightblood.

[TheKennethHayes]

 

There are other moments when it specifically states that Dalinar knows exactly what his Boon and his Curse are, but I don't know if we have exact words which say "the loss of his wife's memory was his curse from the Nightwatcher." I'm intrigued by the idea that it could be his boon...

 

 

I’ve always assumed that he asked the Nightwatcher to take away the pain and depression of his wife’s death because he was so heartbroken that he couldn’t function, and she took away the pain as his boon, but took away the whole memory of her as his cursed. Kind of like a double edged sword. but i'm open to other theories too.

[Veil]

You know, I was actually thinking about posting a similar theory earlier. Not that Dalinar's wife was Shalash specifically, but that she's someone waaaaay more important than any of the characters suspect.

 

(WoR spoilers to follow.)

 

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but this quote strikes me as incredibly suspicious:

 

 

"If you knew how many spoiled ten-year-old lighteyed brats came through here," Zahel said, "you'd think it worth noting. I thought a nineteen-year-old like him would be insufferable. And don't call him a boy, boy. He's probably close to your own age, and is the son of the most powerful human on this--"

(That's Zahel talking to Kaladin about Renarin in chapter 18 of WoR.)

 

There are a couple ways to interpret this comment.

 

1. "The most powerful human on this--" refers to Dalinar, in a political sense (he's essentially the power behind the Alethi throne.) I have a couple problems with this theory. First of all, Alethkar isn't really the overwhelming superpower on Roshar. They're way too focused on the Shattered Plains and the Vengeance Pact. Any other nation's leader is going to rival Dalinar in political power--especially Taravangian, and I expect Zahel to be at least somewhat aware of what he's doing. Second, if you're talking about political power, the emphasis on "human" seems strange. "Man" or "person" both seem more natural in this sentence--unless you're specifically saying that Dalinar is still less powerful than spren, Shards, and the like.

 

2. So maybe Zahel is saying that Dalinar is the strongest human on the planet. I don't buy that. (Not this early, anyway. Maybe if we're talking after Dalinar bonds the Stormfather. Maybe.) Keep in mind that Zahel--Vasher, a worldhopper who at the very least is several hundred years old and knowledgeable about Nalthis Investiture--is aware of Syl and probably has some idea of the sort of power the Nahel bond grants Radiants. So unless Dalinar's Nightwatcher boon is something massively powerful, there's no reason Zahel would single Dalinar out as THE most powerful human on the planet.

 

3. Which leads me to conclude that Zahel was actually referring to Renarin's mother being the most powerful human on the planet.

 

This, of course, doesn't fit with Navani's description of Dalinar's wife being "not very clever" and all that. But what if that was all an act?

 

Or--and this is where I stray decidedly into the realm of speculation--what if Adolin and Renarin are only half brothers? I know there's a WoB that says they're both Dalinar's legitimate sons, but their hair color really bothers me. Renarin has mostly black hair with some blond, while Adolin has mostly blond hair with some black. And Peter's comment here suggests that the percentage of Alethi black hair should correspond to the percentage of Alethi heritage. (Or at least it seems that way to me.)

 

I know it could very well be a fluke of genetics, but I can't help thinking that Dalinar was married twice (thus Renarin and Adolin are both technically legitimate, but with different mothers), and that maybe his boon from the Nightwatcher was making everyone else forget about the second wife.

 

Or, actually, that works just as well with Renarin and Adolin being full brothers. Maybe Dalinar found out some truth about his wife, and he went to the Nightwatcher to ask her to make everyone forget certain things about his wife. Though I'm not sure how he would know the boon for certain in that case. Unless he hasn't actually forgotten everything about his wife. His boon was that everyone else forgot X but remembers the rest, and his curse is that he remembers X but forgot everything else.

 

I don't know. I'm not 100% confident on anything, but my gut says Dalinar's wife is more than what we've been led to believe.

[Aleksiel]

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but this quote strikes me as incredibly suspicious:

 

(That's Zahel talking to Kaladin about Renarin in chapter 18 of WoR.)

 

There are a couple ways to interpret this comment.

 

1. "The most powerful human on this--" refers to Dalinar, in a political sense (he's essentially the power behind the Alethi throne.) I have a couple problems with this theory. First of all, Alethkar isn't really the overwhelming superpower on Roshar. They're way too focused on the Shattered Plains and the Vengeance Pact. Any other nation's leader is going to rival Dalinar in political power--especially Taravangian, and I expect Zahel to be at least somewhat aware of what he's doing. Second, if you're talking about political power, the emphasis on "human" seems strange. "Man" or "person" both seem more natural in this sentence--unless you're specifically saying that Dalinar is still less powerful than spren, Shards, and the like.

 

2. So maybe Zahel is saying that Dalinar is the strongest human on the planet. I don't buy that. (Not this early, anyway. Maybe if we're talking after Dalinar bonds the Stormfather. Maybe.) Keep in mind that Zahel--Vasher, a worldhopper who at the very least is several hundred years old and knowledgeable about Nalthis Investiture--is aware of Syl and probably has some idea of the sort of power the Nahel bond grants Radiants. So unless Dalinar's Nightwatcher boon is something massively powerful, there's no reason Zahel would single Dalinar out as THE most powerful human on the planet.

 

3. Which leads me to conclude that Zahel was actually referring to Renarin's mother being the most powerful human on the planet.

 

This, of course, doesn't fit with Navani's description of Dalinar's wife being "not very clever" and all that. But what if that was all an act?

 

Or--and this is where I stray decidedly into the realm of speculation--what if Adolin and Renarin are only half brothers? I know there's a WoB that says they're both Dalinar's legitimate sons, but their hair color really bothers me. Renarin has mostly black hair with some blond, while Adolin has mostly blond hair with some black. And Peter's comment here suggests that the percentage of Alethi black hair should correspond to the percentage of Alethi heritage. (Or at least it seems that way to me.)

 

I know it could very well be a fluke of genetics, but I can't help thinking that Dalinar was married twice (thus Renarin and Adolin are both technically legitimate, but with different mothers), and that maybe his boon from the Nightwatcher was making everyone else forget about the second wife.

 

Or, actually, that works just as well with Renarin and Adolin being full brothers. Maybe Dalinar found out some truth about his wife, and he went to the Nightwatcher to ask her to make everyone forget certain things about his wife. Though I'm not sure how he would know the boon for certain in that case. Unless he hasn't actually forgotten everything about his wife. His boon was that everyone else forgot X but remembers the rest, and his curse is that he remembers X but forgot everything else.

 

I don't know. I'm not 100% confident on anything, but my gut says Dalinar's wife is more than what we've been led to believe.

 

I think what he meant was that Dalinar was the most influential one; he had until the Tower the most powerful army and certainly has the king's favor. I agree Dalinar's wife is more important than she seems right now, but I think you are reading too much into the quote.

Dalinar is far more important to other highprinces than the king himself - they go to speak to him, they call Dalinar and wait for his during meetings. It has been stated several times in WoR that Dalinar was practically overtaking the throne despite Elhokar still holding the title; Dalinar became the king in the shadows, the one who made the decisions and declared the course of actions. Reasons enough to call him 'the most powerful around'

Edited March 21, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Veil]

I think what he meant was that Dalinar was the most influential one; he had until the Tower the most powerful army and certainly has the king's favor. I agree Dalinar's wife is more important than she seems right now, but I think you are reading too much into the quote.

Dalinar is far more important to other highprinces than the king himself - they go to speak to him, they call Dalinar and wait for his during meetings. It has been stated several times in WoR that Dalinar was practically overtaking the throne despite Elhokar still holding the title; Dalinar became the king in the shadows, the one who made the decisions and declared the course of actions. Reasons enough to call him 'the most powerful around'

 

And adding some minor Warbreaker spoilers to the WoR ones. Just to mix things up.

 

I'd buy that if it was phrased a little differently. "Most powerful human on this--" "On" rules out kingdom/country. "This" rules out the Shattered Plains. Unless Vasher's grammar has flown out the window, there's no other way to finish that sentence except planet/world. Dalinar's the most politically powerful man in Alethkar, sure, but on Roshar? I don't buy it. Dalinar can barely get the other Highprinces to follow him. He has zero power outside Alethkar. (Just look at what happens when he tries to warn the other nations about the Everstorm. He's brushed off by everyone except a former thief who just became emperor (Gawx) and Taravangian, who of course has no ulterior motive at all~) I would call Dalinar one of the most powerful men in the world, but not the single most powerful.

 

To clarify: this is after Sadeas started visibly opposing Dalinar but before Dalinar had any sort of legitimate claim to the Knights Radiant (even Amaram.) The only things Dalinar have going for him at the time of this quote are Elhokar's favor, Adolin's dueling, and Kaladin. (And Kaladin doesn't yet count for much outside Dalinar's own warcamp.) Taln hasn't arrived at the Shattered Plains yet. Shallan hasn't even arrived yet. The highprinces respect him more than they respect Elhokar, but they don't follow him. I agree that Dalinar is on his way to becoming the most influential/important man on Roshar, but he's not there yet.

 

It would be like calling Siri the most powerful human on Nalthis because she informs Susebron's decisions. There are too many factions within the kingdom, and too many other nations to consider, to say she's the single most powerful person around. And Vasher, of all people, would understand that.

 

Also, to a lesser extent, the context. "Don't call him a boy, boy." If Vasher is talking about Dalinar's political weight, he's basically making Renarin the local Draco Malfoy. "Don't insult him, or his father will make your life miserable." I think what he's saying is "Don't underestimate him." Referring to something in Renarin himself that he inherited from his parent, rather than mere social standing.

 

*shrug* I could be wrong, but given who it is that's talking....

[Aleksiel]

He didn't finish the sentence because Renarin interfered and I admit we can't be sure what he was going to say, but he also talked being scared to refuse Dalinar, so that's why I think he's stlll talking about Dalinar and not his wife.

On the 'don't call him boy' Zahel said it because Renarin and Kal are the same age plus it's really disrespectful to speak in such manner of a prince. Kaladin calling Renarin boy basically shows he think he's above or at least equal to the highprince's son, which is outrageously arrogant. Kal would have been in a lot of trouble for saying it if Zahel cared about protocol as much as the average ardent.

 

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

Maybe Dalinar is the most powerful human on Roshar because of his already connection with Honor (via the visions) and..

and the Stormfather and his potential to become a Bondsmith?

In that light, it would be a legitimate statement.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Green Hoodie Mistborn

[Aleksiel]

...

 

Pssst, spoilers   

iirc, nobody suspected the Stormfather in WoK and there certainly wasn't info on Bondsmiths

 

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

Pssst, spoilers   

iirc, nobody suspected the Stormfather in WoK and there certainly wasn't info on Bondsmiths

 

 

I guess spoilers matter even though the books been out for 2 weeks. I will edit the post above. 

 

that point is moot because the post I was replying to has to do with Zahel talking to Kaladin from WoR. Since Zahel is probably a worldhopping Returned that we know and love, he can probably sense/see the potential in Dalinar in some way is my thought.

[Nalan]

 

I'd buy that if it was phrased a little differently. "Most powerful human on this--" "On" rules out kingdom/country. "This" rules out the Shattered Plains. Unless Vasher's grammar has flown out the window, there's no other way to finish that sentence except planet/world.

- Cryptozoologist

 

I agree. I suspect that the reason he interrupts himself is if he finishes his own sentence, he reveals he's a world hopper. If someone said that to me, my next thought would likely be, "Of course on 'this planet.' What? You have knowledge of other worlds?"

 

I have no idea who Dalinar's wife is, but it's an interesting question.

[Aleksiel]

I guess spoilers matter even though the books been out for 2 weeks. I will edit the post above. 

 

that point is moot because the post I was replying to has to do with Zahel talking to Kaladin from WoR. Since Zahel is probably a worldhopping Returned that we know and love, he can probably sense/see the potential in Dalinar in some way is my thought.

 

I totally agree, he's most likely

Vasher; all those color metaphors and Nightblood and talk about making a hard choice every day he continued to breath. Totally a worldhopper.

 

In another thread Peter wrote that Brandon wanted even that 'Shshsh' printed in the lightest grey possible, almost unreadable. So I wonder if it's significant Dalinar hears even this much. Because, you know, it could have been just blank space every time someone mentioned his wife. 

 

I think all we know about her is that Adolin inherited his Plate from her side (but no talk about grandparents), she had blond hair (both her sons have blond locks), wasn't very clever (according to Navani, but she could be just holding a grudge) and died ten years ago. I'd say she wasn't killed, else it would have been mentioned, so either illness or accident. So far nothing that makes her seem important apart from marring a highprince.

 

Is there anything else about her that I'm missing? And is the sound 'shshshs' really significant? I still don't think it indicates Shalash was Dalinar's wife, because that's her holy name; made up to be symmetric, but not her real one (not sure if really a spoiler, but tagging it anyway)

Ash