[OB] Future Heralds

[ArmbarBanker]

This may have been discussed before and is just a far fetched theory

We know that this series will be split into 2 five book arcs. It would seem strange to me that after the first arc that the "good guys" will succeed in defeating odium or something to that nature. It seems as though they will actually loose in some way or just barley come out on top with almost all of Roshar being destroyed in the conflict

My idea is that the main POV characters at the end of book 5 will take the place of the current Heralds. Most of the new POV's have shown signs of mental instability. Most recently even more with Shallan getting lost in her own illusions. I may be reaching far but we know that the 9 Heralds who broke the Oathpact will unlikely return back to Odium. I theorize that most of the POV's will realize that they need to sacrifice themselves at the end of book five to "secure" a new oathpact since the current heralds will not. 

I can see Dalinar, Renarin, Kaladin and even Shallan allowing themselves to be killed to save save Roshar at this time. 

We as readers know that another arc will happen but the Characters do not

[psc92]

In one of the most recent Oathbringer chapters the Stormfather told Dalinar that getting Odium to choose a champion, and then defeating that champion will buy humanity some time. So a lot of people in the chapter 16-18 thread have speculated that Odium's champion will be defeated in book 5. This buys humanity a reprieve which will be the time skip. Then in books 6-10 I assume will be about humanity defeating Odium himself.

 

As for the main characters becoming heralds, I find that highly unlikely without Honor himself there make them heralds, and as we know he is dead.

[teknopathetic he/him]

21 minutes ago, psc92 said:

 

As for the main characters becoming heralds, I find that highly unlikely without Honor himself there make them heralds, and as we know he is dead.

The Spren have been pretty good at creating facsimiles of honour's magic. With the oath pack 'technically' still working, it might be easier than we think for Shallan to switch places with Shalash. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by teknopathetic

[Nymeros]

1 hour ago, psc92 said:

In one of the most recent Oathbringer chapters the Stormfather told Dalinar that getting Odium to choose a champion, and then defeating that champion will buy humanity some time. So a lot of people in the chapter 16-18 thread have speculated that Odium's champion will be defeated in book 5. This buys humanity a reprieve which will be the time skip. Then in books 6-10 I assume will be about humanity defeating Odium himself.

 

As for the main characters becoming heralds, I find that highly unlikely without Honor himself there make them heralds, and as we know he is dead.

Yeahhhh this seems more likely. Part 1 is humanity suckering Odium into a contest of champions and winning by the skin of their teeth. Part 2 is the Heralds and Cultivation actually getting invested in this war.

[bo.montier]

2 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

Yeahhhh this seems more likely. Part 1 is humanity suckering Odium into a contest of champions and winning by the skin of their teeth. Part 2 is the Heralds and Cultivation actually getting invested in this war.

I don't know that I buy this. The implication seems to point to Odium becoming somewhat desperate, and only THEN does he appoint a champion. I feel like the Heralds would already need to be involved for it to get to that point. 

[Knabepicer]

3 minutes ago, bo.montier said:

I don't know that I buy this. The implication seems to point to Odium becoming somewhat desperate, and only THEN does he appoint a champion. I feel like the Heralds would already need to be involved for it to get to that point. 

Other way around. Odium would rather appoint a champion than risk other Shards getting involved, according to the Stormfather at least.

[bo.montier]

4 minutes ago, Knabepicer said:

Other way around. Odium would rather appoint a champion than risk other Shards getting involved, according to the Stormfather at least.

I'm going to have to re-read. Which chapter was that again? I'm so frequently wrong with my predictions that I would not be in the least surprised to be wrong here.

[+Wax he/him]

I like the theory as well.  New people will have to take up the oathpact.

In WoR, Amaram specifically asks Taln about the oaths and doesn’t even bother asking about the supposed shardblade cache.  Don’t know if he’s after the KR oaths or Heraldic oaths, so that’s still up in the air.

But definitely, something is up on the Herald front and there might be some change in the line up maybe.

 

[StormingTexan he/him]

This really isn’t on topic but this post made me think about it. We are seeing Shallan as a Shallash in the making. Shallash destroys the statues/art of herself because she’s adopted one of her illusions as her persona and the depicted ones are not honest. 

[Knabepicer]

38 minutes ago, bo.montier said:

I'm going to have to re-read. Which chapter was that again? I'm so frequently wrong with my predictions that I would not be in the least surprised to be wrong here.

 Chapter 16:

Quote

To fight directly might coax out forces that could hurt him, as he has been hurt before. Those scars do not heal. To pick a champion, then lose, will only cost him time.

 

[bo.montier]

6 minutes ago, Knabepicer said:

 Chapter 16:

 

Thanks. I'll look at it again. I missed that implication.

I still feel like he has to be put in a difficult situation first, otherwise why is there talk of forcing him to pick a champion.

[Nymeros]

1 hour ago, bo.montier said:

I don't know that I buy this. The implication seems to point to Odium becoming somewhat desperate, and only THEN does he appoint a champion. I feel like the Heralds would already need to be involved for it to get to that point. 

Well....

1 hour ago, Knabepicer said:

Other way around. Odium would rather appoint a champion than risk other Shards getting involved, according to the Stormfather at least.

This basically. Odium has an impressive list of accomplishments but it was not without cost.

He's apparently gotten his behind kicked many times and has the scars to prove it....hes afraid of losing again which helps explain why he's waited so long to make a move.

 

Basically, if Odium has a 100 percent chance of winning and without playing his trump cards, then he will just press forward and crush his enemies.  

However, if humanity is juuussst badass enough to decrease that percentage and give Odium the impression they could be victorius or force him into an uncomfortable position, Odium would rather make a cheap move like appointing a Champion (risking only a minor waste of his time) than play his trump cards and risk total defeat.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Nymeros

[Dahak he/him]

2 hours ago, psc92 said:

As for the main characters becoming heralds, I find that highly unlikely without Honor himself there make them heralds, and as we know he is dead.

Talinvast is probably dead.

So is Ati and Leras and Vin. Actually we are more sure they aren't faking their death than we can be for Talinvast.

But Shards can be taken up. Rayse may believe that shattering shards makes them uncollectable, but Sazed managed to fuse two of the big ones. So in theory nothing stops fusing the shatterd bits of Honor.

So there may one day again be Honor.

[psc92]

6 minutes ago, Dahak said:

Talinvast is probably dead.

So is Ati and Leras and Vin. Actually we are more sure they aren't faking their death than we can be for Talinvast.

But Shards can be taken up. Rayse may believe that shattering shards makes them uncollectable, but Sazed managed to fuse two of the big ones. So in theory nothing stops fusing the shatterd bits of Honor.

So there may one day again be Honor.

That is true. But Ruin and Preservation weren't splintered and they were just sitting right there for Sazed to take them and combine them. The question is how difficult is it to un-splinter a shard? Rayse probably understands that it's not impossible to rebuild a shard but probably incredibly difficult. And even if you knew in theory how to do it, would you have the means to do it?

[bo.montier]

7 minutes ago, psc92 said:

That is true. But Ruin and Preservation weren't splintered and they were just sitting right there for Sazed to take them and combine them. The question is how difficult is it to un-splinter a shard? Rayse probably understands that it's not impossible to rebuild a shard but probably incredibly difficult. And even if you knew in theory how to do it, would you have the means to do it?

This whole question fascinates me, for so many reasons. Hoid could probably do it, but what makes these individuals special? Simply their being around back before the splintering? Are they superhumans of some sort? Do they just know things that others don't?

 

I mean, if Rayse, Tallinvast, Ati, etc weren't special, then why hasn't someone taken up Honor? If it's because Odium is still on the system, what about the power of one of the other shards? I mean, Vin was able to take up Preservation, and Sazed 2 shards...I just don't see the pattern yet.

[Wreith he/him]

44 minutes ago, bo.montier said:

I mean, if Rayse, Tallinvast, Ati, etc weren't special, then why hasn't someone taken up Honor? If it's because Odium is still on the system, what about the power of one of the other shards? I mean, Vin was able to take up Preservation, and Sazed 2 shards...I just don't see the pattern yet

The last few posts here seem to be confusing the death of the host and a 'shattering'.

Honor hasn't been taken up because, we believe, the shard has been shattered. Tanavast, the Shardholder of Honor is also dead.

Ruin and Preservation were not shattered. Their shardholders were killed, but the shards themselves remained intact and were thus immediately available to be picked up by someone else.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Wreith
said 'sharbearer' instead of 'shardholder'

[Dahak he/him]

4 hours ago, Wreith said:

Honor hasn't been taken up because, we believe, the shard has been shattered.

As was Adolnalsium. But Sazed demonstrated that those shards could be recombined. So thus should the smaller bits.

 

The problem would be that presumably there are a lot of little shards to collect and on Roshar they may have become Spren. Seeing as there seem to be more of them around than there are in the Visions from when Honor was around.

[+Wax he/him]

Quote

QUESTION

So the first one is Kaladin’s backstory, the second is Shallan’s backstory, who’s next?

BRANDON SANDERSON

I actually haven’t been able to decide yet. It’s going to be one of the five for the first five books are Kaladin and Shallan and then Dalinar, Szeth, and Eshonai and I can’t decide which one matches the next book best. And I’m going to have to write it...

ARGENT

What’s the current list for the back five?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Current list for the back five… Jasnah, Lift, Ash, Renarin, and Taln

2

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1133

Quote

RURO272

Will we see all of the Heralds doing things in the upcoming books?

BRANDON SANDERSON

The back five books are all about the Heralds. Two of them claim to be Heralds..... Two of the point-of-views will be Heralds.

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1130

I think if you put the above 2 quotes together, we have a significant hint 

[Mulk he/him]

If the Heralds are going to find the Oathpact isn't as dead as they thought (wasn't there a WOB about that?) then I imagine there won't and can't be any new Heralds until and unless one of the current 10 dies permanently.  Being as they were connected directly to Honor himself, I don't think they can actually break vows and get away with it forever so it won't surprise me if they get yanked back into Damnation the next time around.  Anyone offering odds on whether they can actually die for real now? or if they die, do they go back to Damnation?  I wonder if there is any way out of the Oathpact...or if that's what the back 5 will revolve around.

[Watchcry he/him]

Quote

Current list for the back five… Jasnah, Lift, Ash, Renarin, and Taln

Wouldn't it be silly if Ash is a Dustbringer?  If so she could be the character on the front of the UK cover who Taravangian has as a Radiant? 

[+Wax he/him]

48 minutes ago, Watchcry said:

Wouldn't it be silly if Ash is a Dustbringer?  If so she could be the character on the front of the UK cover who Taravangian has as a Radiant? 

I thought Ash was Shalash, the lightweaver herald.  But, it’s interesting that 9 other orders get one PoV each from herald or KR across 10 books. But dustbringers don’t get one.

So, something to look out for.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by axcellence

[Calderis he/him]

7 hours ago, Watchcry said:

Wouldn't it be silly if Ash is a Dustbringer?  If so she could be the character on the front of the UK cover who Taravangian has as a Radiant? 

This is actually a pretty common theory, and believed to be the reason for this WoB. 

Quote

Questioner

Have we... I think you mentioned in a previous signing that we’d already met one member of every Order of the Knights Radiant.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, I think you have.

Questioner

My question is, have we met two Edgedancers? And is one of the Dustbringers a viewpoint character?

Brandon Sanderson

One of the Dustbringers is eventually a point-of-view character.

Questioner

Haven’t been yet?

Brandon Sanderson

No, not yet, I don’t think. But it depends if you count the Heralds as members of their order.

Questioner

I don’t.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, see I would, because they’re kind of heads of their Order. If you don’t count them you have not met some from every Order.

Questioner

Have we met someone from the Dustbringers?

Brandon Sanderson

Well… Dustbringers are really complicated. Really complicated. So that’s the weird one. Okay? So let’s shelve that one. You’ll see why it’s really weird later on.

Because Shallash was the Lightweaver Herald, but she's a main PoV, which are all supposed to center on different orders. So the theory goes that she doesn't bother retrieving her Honorblade, but attracts a Dustbringer spren. 

[Dahak he/him]

7 hours ago, axcellence said:

I thought Ash was Shalash, the lightweaver herald.  But, it’s interesting that 9 other orders get one PoV each from herald or KR across 10 books. But dustbringers don’t get one.

So, something to look out for.

Nothing says that the woman who's been smashing lots of representations of herself has to join her own order (She was thinking about getting a Shardblade and that would if she wants it to be useful require a Nahel Bond). It would depend on what type of spren she bonded.

[Subvisual Haze]

On 10/4/2017 at 8:42 PM, axcellence said:

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1133

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1130

I think if you put the above 2 quotes together, we have a significant hint 

Wow, these quotes are huge to process.  Based on process of elimination Ash would probably be a Dustbringer and Eshonai a Willshaper?

[Calderis he/him]

18 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Wow, these quotes are huge to process.  Based on process of elimination Ash would probably be a Dustbringer and Eshonai a Willshaper?

That's the most commonly accepted idea for both, yes.