oathbringer spoilers [OB] Oathbringer Writing Commentary Thread

[+Wax he/him]

We didn't have a thread on how the book's writing is or how it comes across.  With the preview chapters, there's a more minute review of the writing.

Now, fairly, we all love Brandon and are waiting with anticipation for our weekly dosage and the eventual book.  But, I think it's OK to discuss the writing itself.

From my point of view, it's been good, but here is a summary of good and not so good

Good

Consistent new surprises and intrigue - murder mysteries, copycat murders.  Seriously could have continued with a predictable turn on the Sadeas murder, but instead we now have this copycat murder intrigue.

Introduction of new characters - May Aladar - who is she?

Kaladin finally lessening his "I am a pain" act and realising he can't hold it against Roshone ALL THE TIME

Pattern speak (no mating, wanting to marry Adolin)

Frustrating

Cliffhangers at the end of every chapter - it doesn't help we can't turn the page because it's only a 3 chapter release each week.  I want the full book now.  But cliffhangers fatigue is getting to me.

Pacing - all that seems to be happening at times is just people jibbering about at times - That Adolin-Shallan chapter where they discussed food, fighting stances, etc.  Overall, I get worried we'd get to the end of the book and they have not done much or end up with a cliffhanger.

Some language - still miffed at "Just a sec" by Shallan.  Really?  Medieval times people didn't even have clocks or just timed by the hour with no minute hands, let alone seconds...

 

[Pattern he/him]

5 hours ago, axcellence said:

Some language - still miffed at "Just a sec" by Shallan.  Really?  Medieval times people didn't even have clocks or just timed by the hour with no minute hands, let alone seconds...

Dalinar's clockrial shows the time with three hands, even seconds - which he finds totally unnecessary.
The fabrial development is too recent to have influence on language, though, so "Just a sec" might be a bit off.

[kari-no-sugata]

I guess if the book had all the details we wanted it would be about twice as long.

It would be nice to see characters doing more "ordinary" or "boring, obvious but useful" things or to confirm what they're thinking or planning more but clearly Brandon's style is to focus on the "meat" of the story, to keep the pacing good, to generally keep the tension up and so on. "Slice of life" it is not.

There's not been many chapters that feel like "breathers" so far. Chapter 13 feels a bit like one and most of chapter 14 but then the tension is ratcheted up again.

[Dreamstorm]

9 hours ago, axcellence said:

Cliffhangers at the end of every chapter - it doesn't help we can't turn the page because it's only a 3 chapter release each week.  I want the full book now.  But cliffhangers fatigue is getting to me.

....

Some language - still miffed at "Just a sec" by Shallan.  Really?  Medieval times people didn't even have clocks or just timed by the hour with no minute hands, let alone seconds...

 

The cliffhangers thing is new, right? One of the things I liked about WoK is that even though it took a while for me to get into the book, each chapter felt like a "story" unto itself where you weren't left hanging at the end. It made it easier to read (well, listen to for me) in small chunks and not get lost due to needing to remember exactly how a prior chapter ended. Chapters feel less complete in this book so far. I hope this isn't foreshadowing for how OB will end 

On the phrases of modern dialect, I don't personally notice them, but in reading WoR amazon review lately (because what else does one do in one's spare time), this was a really common complaint. I have to imagine it's a stylistic choice to make the interpersonal interactions more relatable?

[PeterAhlstrom he/him]

If a phrase is used in the book, that's because an equivalent phrase is used on Roshar. Roshar isn't Earth. Not everything lines up exactly with our history.

Also, the pacing of Oathbringer is often faster than the previous books. Brandon felt it appropriate.

Edited October 4, 2017 by PeterAhlstrom

[DiamondMind he/him]

Two things have stood out to me in WoR and have continued in Oathbringer.

First is the tendency to italicize verbs like be, is, can. It's happening frequently and takes me out of the reading when it occurs. I don't feel it's really necessary and just interrupts the flow of the writing. I don't remember it happening as much in Mistborn and Way of Kings.

Second is skipping over what the characters are doing every day. In Way of Kings, there was descriptions for day to day activities for Kaladin and implied for Shallan, while Dalinar and Adolin's days were never described as far as I can remember. In WoR it became worse. There's one place where Kaladin describes what he's doing when Dalinar assigns him another duty, but otherwise time off screen is a blank slate pre-duel. Shallan works on the ledgers and practices with Stormlight, but is also has lots of lost time. Again, Dalinar and Adolin have the worst -- I cannot remember any specific descriptions of what they're doing.

In Oathbringer this continues. What has Adolin been doing when not meeting Shallan? He can't be investigating all the time. What has Dalinar been doing aside from practicing with Stormlight and talking to other leaders? At least it's pretty clear that Kaladin has been stalking the freed parshmen, so we don't need specific details. But the other gaps are frustrating because it's hard to get a clear picture of everything happening.

Edit: I just want to say aside from these things, I'm really enjoying the chapters show far. These are really nitpicks for an overall great story. I'm fine with the pacing so far as we're barely 20 chapters in and there have been some amazing scenes alerady. "Out of place" phrases don't really bother me either.

Edited October 4, 2017 by DiamondMind

[kiapet]

I think that most or all of these negative things are a result of us reading it in a serialized format when it was written to be read straight through. The cliffhangers and pacing certainly are, but I also think things like "just a sec" wouldn't be under such scrutiny if you just read past it rather than going through each chapter with a fine-toothed comb.

[Nymeros]

I'm cool with writing so far. It's a better intro than WoK or WoR.

It would be nice to have Dalinar dealing with the logistics of the Urithiru move and what daily operations are. Just a map of Urithiru and where the back everything is would be nice.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Nymeros

[The Invested Beard]

6 hours ago, PeterAhlstrom said:

If a phrase is used in the book, that's because an equivalent phrase is used on Roshar. Roshar isn't Earth. Not everything lines up exactly with our history.

Also, the pacing of Oathbringer is often faster than the previous books. Brandon felt it appropriate.

Thanks Pete! Was wanting to say something similar but you ninja'd me. 

[Aminar]

The writing is Brandon's standard. He's always said he's not a great prosist. And this lives up to that. It's passable but the emphasis is on plot, worldbuilding, and character. And all of those are excellent. (Like... Phenomenal. The single lines that speak volumes about the world are everywhere.) 

Anachronisms are a non-issue given the writing philosophy Peter mentioned, that this is a localized translation. 100% valid and much easier/less annoying than the alternative. 

As for Cliffhangers. Man... That's writing. It's good. It keeps us interested. We're not even into the first interlude. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Aminar

[StormingTexan he/him]

The big thing that has stood out to me as a positive is Brandon is getting increasingly better at his comic delivery. That may not be important to everyone but I find myself a lot more invested in a book if I get a laugh every now and then. He is also choosing very good characters to deliver the comic relief (spren for instance) which I think is important as I am not expecting a lot of chuckles from Dalinar or Kaladin's dialog.  

The pacing is also noticeable much faster in Oathbringer which I will not pass judgment as a good or bad thing  yet. I have been surprised how many reveals we are seeing so early on. 

Overall I am very happy with what we have seen so far.

[Knotai]

I'm glad other people noticed a bit of a stylistic change from WoR into Oathbringer. For me, it was a little bit of a surprise at first, but I'm definitely coming to like his "new style more.

I say "new" because I feel like it's a change that started around the transition from SoS --> BoM and into the later books of the Reckoners, where Brandon seemed to start writing a little more "improvisatorily", as he calls it, and less "planned" (although a huge amount of planning still goes into these books). From what I've read in Oathbringer, the new style takes away from some of the gravitas and epic quality of the prose in WoR and sometimes reads a little cliched or awkwardly, but there's a huge improvement in characterization. You learn more about the characters, they're deeper in a different way, and funnier; a move away from a Jordan character and maybe a bit towards one from Pratchett. I find it hugely effective when discussing Shallan's identity issues.

Pardon the comparison, but to me it seems an awful lot like the composer Stravinsky's Russian style (very heavy, myth-based, derivative of earlier works by others) to his Neoclassical style (lighter, more original, with a thinner texture, and more comical, but still accommodating of large-scale works).

I'm still not sure which "style" I like better, but the change certainly isn't for the worse.